Where are the DEVS?

[random goat]

When topics like these arise I often see lots of speculation how they are not investing enough resources into the development of the game (either be it time, people or money) and I disagree. I don't believe we have any kind of basis for these claims (unless I'm not aware of it?).

While the CMs situation might just be stationary and the lack of communication has been a thing for ages, the latter is getting more and more apparent everyday.
Don't want to flood this with pessimism but to fully answer your question: the last pack and subsequent update felt more rushed than any of the previous ones.

The main new feature, billboards, is imported from Planco (unlike diving, colour variation, sandbox options, etc.), so in my eyes, it should require less coding. For some reason, 3-4 billboard panels were included after the major update (obvious delay) and we're still waiting for the custom audio after 1 and a half months. Also, we're still seeing a lot of people having issues/bugs after this update. This should be less and less prevalent as the game develops, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Some people (specially in zoos with high piece count) are experiencing more game crashes than ever before.
Then there's also DLC-related stuff: delayed babirusa sign, the bintuwrong, the copy-paste tapir (looks good but still a 100% reskin) and late adjustments on the dhole model (kinda unnecessary for me but oh well).

Even some of the stuff from the previous DLC/update (Aquatic) that should have been adressed by now feels a bit overlooked. I'm talking about the fact that after ~4 months only another crocodilian got diving mechanics, no bears, jaguar, Nile monitor, etc. And we're still having unrealistic requirements to prompt diving behaviour in some animals, which, in my opinion, and after no further communication on this regard, seems to be a deliberately implemented limitation.

That's why, only in my opinion, current development seems to be running against the clock like it never did, which can only be explained by the allocation of insufficient resources.

 

[NL_Mutso]

You're right. That's the general consensus from those who migrated over from other frontier building games. A fair enough speculation, extrapolating from past data points.

I think this even applies to experiences from other games as well. You don't see many games having DLC support for more than 3 years. So when you also look at PC, that's something you already recognize as something you see on a regular basis.
I understand the need for very long DLC support for PZ because a next zoo game like this, is unlikely to happen in the next years.

The main new feature, billboards, is imported from Planco (unlike diving, colour variation, sandbox options, etc.), so in my eyes, it should require less coding. For some reason, 3-4 billboard panels were included after the major update (obvious delay) and we're still waiting for the custom audio after 1 and a half months. Also, we're still seeing a lot of people having issues/bugs after this update. This should be less and less prevalent as the game develops, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Some people (specially in zoos with high piece count) are experiencing more game crashes than ever before.

The whole update/DLC definately looked rushed.
Wasn't the custom audio announced as a WIP and they expected to provide us more news after a few weeks when they will be implementing this in an update? (not actual implementing this within a few weeks after update 1.5?).

You mentioned diving but wasn't also more coat variations announced as well when they released the Aussie DLC?

A lot of people are complaining about the crashes (some won't even start), I know that a (small) portion of these users were also using mods (not talking about the animal mods)
They expect mods to be updated automatically and are running an old version. But there are a lot struggling to play this atm., some even did a clean install. It's weird to play a game normally from the start and suddenly unable to do so.

And we're still having unrealistic requirements to prompt diving behaviour in some animals, which, in my opinion, and after no further communication on this regard, seems to be a deliberately implemented limitation.

Wasn't this already explained? Can't remember which thread that was on but they made this choice because of technical and conservation reasons. Sounded like a final answer.

 

[tigris115]

Late but devs usually don't do this sorta thing. That's what CM's are for.

 

[random goat]

I think this even applies to experiences from other games as well. You don't see many games having DLC support for more than 3 years. So when you also look at PC, that's something you already recognize as something you see on a regular basis.
I understand the need for very long DLC support for PZ because a next zoo game like this, is unlikely to happen in the next years.



The whole update/DLC definately looked rushed.
Wasn't the custom audio announced as a WIP and they expected to provide us more news after a few weeks when they will be implementing this in an update? (not actual implementing this within a few weeks after update 1.5?).

You mentioned diving but wasn't also more coat variations announced as well when they released the Aussie DLC?

A lot of people are complaining about the crashes (some won't even start), I know that a (small) portion of these users were also using mods (not talking about the animal mods)
They expect mods to be updated automatically and are running an old version. But there are a lot struggling to play this atm., some even did a clean install. It's weird to play a game normally from the start and suddenly unable to do so.


Wasn't this already explained? Can't remember which thread that was on but they made this choice because of technical and conservation reasons. Sounded like a final answer.

Yeah, it was said that they'd share more news soon regarding the audio. Personally, after 3-4 minor updates and one and a half months I expected to get some news at least.
I believe they also said they'd work on more coat variations, yes.
Regarding the crashes, I reckon some might be caused by mods, but I know for certain some of them aren't. Even some content creators who haven't used mods have had some problems with their zoo not loading or crashing, lately.

And regarding diving requirements, this was the last post about the topic:

Hayo, I will clarify further again. The deep swimming system relies on both coding and animation to perform properly. In order for the animals to perform their animations correctly, coding is in place to ensure they have enough room to move around and function as they should. We shared a lot of information about deep swimming in our recent Developer Journal, where we discussed the new system the team created to make it happen. The requirements that have been put in place are there to ensure that you can build a habitat without the animals performing their actions incorrectly or not at all. It is not just to do with animal welfare. We have been passing along all of the deep swimming requirement feedback we have been reading to the team, thanks to all who shared their thoughts on it. The team will be taking another look into the requirements in the New Year, and we will share our findings with you all!

6 months later I'm still waiting for them to share their findings

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Speaking of coat variations: They also said they would work on coloration of Flamingos and that they didn't include them yet, because IRL it is linked to food.

There are honestly a lot "we work on it / look into it / share more soon" and we never heard anything. Some "the team will look into it" even came from Bo and she left Frontier a year ago, right after the South America pack.

 

[Leaf Productions]

Speaking of coat variations: They also said they would work on coloration of Flamingos and that they didn't include them yet, because IRL it is linked to food.

There are honestly a lot "we work on it / look into it / share more soon" and we never heard anything. Some "the team will look into it" even came from Bo and she left Frontier a year ago, right after the South America pack.

But do people really want realistic Flamingo coat variations? I'm the biggest fan of flamingos for flamboyant flocks but I could care less about the coloration. I have my... own means.

I'd rather more innovation be taken in accordance with getting shallower deep diving to work, or implement the mechanic onto more animals that need it.

 

[PeppyPepp]

While the CMs situation might just be stationary and the lack of communication has been a thing for ages, the latter is getting more and more apparent everyday.
Don't want to flood this with pessimism but to fully answer your question: the last pack and subsequent update felt more rushed than any of the previous ones.

The main new feature, billboards, is imported from Planco (unlike diving, colour variation, sandbox options, etc.), so in my eyes, it should require less coding. For some reason, 3-4 billboard panels were included after the major update (obvious delay) and we're still waiting for the custom audio after 1 and a half months. Also, we're still seeing a lot of people having issues/bugs after this update. This should be less and less prevalent as the game develops, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Some people (specially in zoos with high piece count) are experiencing more game crashes than ever before.
Then there's also DLC-related stuff: delayed babirusa sign, the bintuwrong, the copy-paste tapir (looks good but still a 100% reskin) and late adjustments on the dhole model (kinda unnecessary for me but oh well).

Even some of the stuff from the previous DLC/update (Aquatic) that should have been adressed by now feels a bit overlooked. I'm talking about the fact that after ~4 months only another crocodilian got diving mechanics, no bears, jaguar, Nile monitor, etc. And we're still having unrealistic requirements to prompt diving behaviour in some animals, which, in my opinion, and after no further communication on this regard, seems to be a deliberately implemented limitation.

That's why, only in my opinion, current development seems to be running against the clock like it never did, which can only be explained by the allocation of insufficient resources.

I feel a little bit differently (in a good way) about this pack and update. I feel like we have gotten a lot of the things we have wished for (animal pack, billboards, franchise entrances, etc). Despite the delayed sign/billboard screens and the binturong fiasco, it all turned out pretty okay, in my opinion. I do agree that some features from PC should have been there from the start, or should be easy to implement after, but maybe it was a deliberate decision to leave it out so they could have something to add later in the updates. I have no idea why custom audio hasn't been added yet, but it makes me think there has to be an issue somewhere otherwise we would have it already. Just like we don't have a search bar in the animal trade market. Such a tiny thing yet it's still missing.

Just like you mentioned, the one big disappointment for me was that they added the diving only to the gharial. I was hoping the animation would be added to all the animals that dive. They did mention that diving was hard to implement, so perhaps it's a slow and hard process? I have to admit, that if they will continue at this rate, not all of the animals will get the diving animation by the end of PZ. It does make me a bit worried. They do tend to "forget" about stuff.

Don't get me wrong, there are definitely problems with the game, and perhaps you are correct (and I agree, a game should be more polished after a year and a half, not more and more buggy), but I guess you could say I'm a bit more hopeful after this update because to me, it really felt like it was community-driven as opposed to just what Frontier had on their agenda.

I guess we'll see in a month and a half when they have the African pack to sell.

 

[random goat]

Oh yes, I agree that there has definetely been a shift in their DLCs since the Aquatic pack, with more community-driven content. But community-driven or not, it still felt like they needed 2-3 more weeks to polish and complete everything to make it more flawless. And btw by no means I'm implying Frontier devs have done a poor job with the last DLC/update. I really appreciate their hard work and the quality of everything they provide, but the PZ team just seems to be very meagre at this point.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

But do people really want realistic Flamingo coat variations? I'm the biggest fan of flamingos for flamboyant flocks but I could care less about the coloration. I have my... own means.

I'd rather more innovation be taken in accordance with getting shallower deep diving to work, or implement the mechanic onto more animals that need it.

If they are made propperly, I do. Or at least variation within a flock. And keep in mind not everybody loves mods as much as I do and when you don't play with the inofficial Flamingo pack, you are really left with pretty dull Flamingos.

It's just that it was promised. If I HAD to choose between shallower deep diving and realistic Flamingos, I would always always always decide for shallower deep diving. But to be honest, for me it would be enough if it is added to the missing reptiles that deep dive and the Polar Bear (when they reduce their ridicolous space need to something realistic at the same time). Personally I don't need deep diving tigers and jaguars and I doubt we will ever get them.

 

[FoxyDee]

Another forgotten thing, natural mound also available for aardvarks, promised a year ago, still not delivered. Wish we got at least an update if it is still something to expect or not. I in particular was excited when I read they will make aardvarks be able to use it, as the natural mound enrichment would look great in that kind of enclosure with burrows and sand...

Now that I think about it, it would make for a nice small update with the flamingo colours, both tied to the food enrichment.

 

[Jens Erik]

Speaking of coat variations: They also said they would work on coloration of Flamingos and that they didn't include them yet, because IRL it is linked to food.

Hiii! Just wanted to jump in and clarify something.

When we rolled out colour variation, Greater Flamingos were listed as an animal we felt either had no clear colour variation and/or benefited in some way from looking identical as a group (thread for reference). In the thread we mentioned that it could potentially be linked to food, and while we've investigated some ideas it's not on our roadmap at the moment.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Hiii! Just wanted to jump in and clarify something.

When we rolled out colour variation, Greater Flamingos were listed as an animal we felt either had no clear colour variation and/or benefited in some way from looking identical as a group (thread for reference). In the thread we mentioned that it could potentially be linked to food, and while we've investigated some ideas it's not on our roadmap at the moment.

Thanks for the honest answer. At the same time, it's rather disappointing. While I am totally fine with it not being linked to food, no variation at all is neither natural nor visual pleasing in game, to be honest. But I guess that is one of the many downsides of overly limited resources the team probably has to deal with and is not des devs fault.

 

[Firestar97]

Another forgotten thing, natural mound also available for aardvarks, promised a year ago, still not delivered. Wish we got at least an update if it is still something to expect or not. I in particular was excited when I read they will make aardvarks be able to use it, as the natural mound enrichment would look great in that kind of enclosure with burrows and sand...

Now that I think about it, it would make for a nice small update with the flamingo colours, both tied to the food enrichment.

Chimpanzees and Bonobos should definitely also be able to use it

Hiii! Just wanted to jump in and clarify something.

When we rolled out colour variation, Greater Flamingos were listed as an animal we felt either had no clear colour variation and/or benefited in some way from looking identical as a group (thread for reference). In the thread we mentioned that it could potentially be linked to food, and while we've investigated some ideas it's not on our roadmap at the moment.

Are there Plans to add new Variations to Animals that are already in the Game at some Point? There are some Species that should really have them. For Example the Japanese Macaque, the Western Chimpanzee, more Variations for Wolves and Llamas (including the Return of the original white Llama as a Variation), I'm not completely sure if those are just different Subspecies but Pronghorns also seem to be able to have different Fur Colors, I would also love Polar Bear Variations (never seen a adult Polar Bear in a Zoo that has such extremely white Fur) but sadly it was already confirmed that this Species won't get Variations

 

[Bearcat9948]

6 months later I'm still waiting for them to share their findings

Evidently, we'll be waiting even longer..

 

[Jens Erik]

Are there Plans to add new Variations to Animals that are already in the Game at some Point?

Unfortunately I don't have anything to announce at the moment.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

I would also love Polar Bear Variations (never seen a adult Polar Bear in a Zoo that has such extremely white Fur) but sadly it was already confirmed that this Species won't get Variations

Polar bears have kind of transparent fur IRL. The reason why we we don't see white polar bears in our zoos is, because the light breaks differently on their black skin underneath that fur. If you look at them in their natural habitat, they look rather white. So similar to Flamingos, where the color is linked to food, it's not really a coat variation and personally I wouldn't want to see a yellowish bear in an arctic zoo. For me it's not as urgent because you usually don't keep a huge amount of polar bears in one habitat, as you do with the Flamingos, but that of course comes down to personal preference.

 

[Firestar97]

Polar bears have kind of transparent fur IRL. The reason why we we don't see white polar bears in our zoos is, because the light breaks differently on their black skin underneath that fur. If you look at them in their natural habitat, they look rather white. So similar to Flamingos, where the color is linked to food, it's not really a coat variation and personally I wouldn't want to see a yellowish bear in an arctic zoo. For me it's not as urgent because you usually don't keep a huge amount of polar bears in one habitat, as you do with the Flamingos, but that of course comes down to personal preference.

I know that their Fur isn't really white. I've also seen Footage of Polar Bears in their natural Habitat that don't really look white

Source: https://youtu.be/J3euEMWC8tg

 

[Bearcat9948]

@Jens Erik

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but there are still so many things we don't have answers for, and it's a bit ridiculous to be honest.

Why hasn't custom audio been implemented months after the update? In the initial post for the 1.5 announcement it states "As we're currently working on Custom Audio, we will be sharing an update for when you can expect to see them at a later date.", but this never came.

Why haven't we been updated on things like aardvarks getting access to the termite mounds, or diving requirements being reduced?

It's fine if you say "the team will take a look at this" when we ask you guys about stuff, what isn't ok is going months (or for the aardvark thing over a year in that instance) without ever coming back to it. I don't know if it's an issue of being disorganized, lack of interest, higher ups telling you not to engage with us or what. But something about your system clearly needs to be improved.

The worst part about it is I know that you do pay attention to the feedback we provide, and our wishlists etc. All we want is more constant communication with you guys.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

I know that their Fur isn't really white. I've also seen Footage of Polar Bears in their natural Habitat that don't really look white
Source: https://youtu.be/J3euEMWC8tg

Sorry, it was not my intention to come across lecturing. I mainly wanted to state my guess on why we are fascing the same variation lack problem as with the flamingos here. Appologies that I annoyed you.

 

[Firestar97]

Sorry, it was not my intention to come across lecturing. I mainly wanted to state my guess on why we are fascing the same variation lack problem as with the flamingos here. Appologies that I annoyed you.

That Apology is absolutely unnecessary because I wasn't annoyed or something similar. Was just stating Facts