Why I prefer ED to EVE... (even incomplete)

[JeffRyan]

Well I know absolutely nothing first hand of Eve - or any other multiplayer online games (apart from Urban Dead).

But I've read a great deal about Eve and some multiplayer mindsets and griefing activities over the last few weeks.

It seems to me that DB and FD's attitude towards that sort of thing combined with instancing and groups should nullify the worst of "Goon" type behaviour so I'm reasonably hopeful that PacalB's doom laden prophecy won't come to pass...

I think having DB on our side (I have the impression he's played EVE and is well aware of that mindset) is a great thing. Let's be clear, we need these players, we need people who're bad guys, we need pirates, we need assassins, we need these people to populate the nasty roles, but what we don't need is THAT mindset to dominate, we don't want or need EVE to be a shiny happy place where we all love each other and make space-daisy chains and sing the Age of Aquarius. That's not in the fiction it's not in the world lore. What we need is to to find a happy middle ground. It won't be easy.

 

[psykokow]

Actually Im happy for an Intergalactic tea party with Daisy Chain making, infact the first planet i land on.. Im making one>>> got IT??

 

[JeffRyan]

Actually Im happy for an Intergalactic tea party with Daisy Chain making, infact the first planet i land on.. Im making one>>> got IT??

Space-Daisy Chain! We live in the fyoocha! We have to say things like: Lavian Wine, Space Miles and You're hotter than the plasma of my local star etc etc. So SPACE DAISIES!

 

[psykokow]

Star Daisies?

I'll get into it soon enough... I got space piles and they are really distracting my Star brain from immersing deeper into this Galactic RP...

Im off for a hot star cup of space tea.

Howwzat?

 

[JeffRyan]

Star Daisies?

I'll get into it soon enough... I got space piles and they are really distracting my Star brain from immersing deeper into this Galactic RP...

Im off for a hot star cup of space tea.

Howwzat?

Better.

 

[PacalB]

It does sound like my kinda place. The only reason I don't play Eve is because it doesn't let me pilot my own ship.

Yes, plenty of places for piracy and the likes, but when its some obnoxious teen or character with mental health issues getting his e-peen off spamming the channels day in day out on how "uber" he is, it gets tiring. More so when there is are higher numbers of these types feeding of each other. You got to pilot your ships, just not from the first person cockpit view. For those that think there was/is no art or skill in piloting an Eve ship, they are simply mistaken.

The Eve world/universe was/is a harsh cold one, survival comes from either being stealthy and wise or being with a good unit that will educate you on how to stay alive in a wise fashion. A lot of younger pilots to the Eve universe miss this. Scripted NCP missions never really prepared pilots for the harshness of the game, and tis why the frustrations built out there. It is also why the likes of "Eve Uni" do so well but there are/were always other ways.

 

[psykokow]

OOps I fell on my *lets try this*... ACTUALLY smart ****! Wheres the guide to ED speech??? Eh??

Wheres the Elite Wiki whats what...

Is there such a thing as a Lavian Cowsheep? How do we KNOW..??

I was looking for wildlife details and info on domestic creatures for different planets. Also delicacies and drinks for different systems..

I know its not necessary for this, but it would be good to have a thread to come up with these... (Waves at the Creative bunch in the fiction sections).

I mean can I slap you with a fish type creature from Lave? Or poke you with a gerbil thing from ...... erm ..... Lave.... (i need to do more research see.....)

Where can I go to educated!?!?! Where is the ED elite acadamy for all things ED universal?

 

[JeffRyan]

OOps I fell on my *lets try this*... ACTUALLY smart ****! Wheres the guide to ED speech??? Eh??

Wheres the Elite Wiki whats what...

Is there such a thing as a Lavian Cowsheep? How do we KNOW..??

I was looking for wildlife details and info on domestic creatures for different planets. Also delicacies and drinks for different systems..

I know its not necessary for this, but it would be good to have a thread to come up with these... (Waves at the Creative bunch in the fiction sections).

I mean can I slap you with a fish type creature from Lave? Or poke you with a gerbil thing from ...... erm ..... Lave.... (i need to do more research see.....)

Where can I go to educated!?!?! Where is the ED elite acadamy for all things ED universal?

This deserves a thread to itself...

 

[psykokow]

Hey Pacal,
I consider myself an undereducated Eve Pilot, but I just can't find anywhere to gain those skills, they seem to be from forming large groups.
Ones to take shields down, ones to immobilise ships, and then the ones to shoot them down.

Thats great if you have pals playing... not so great as a loner..

Getting into factions/corps is ok, but until you guy mention the Uni, Id never heard of it..

*i may fire Eve up this after noon now*

 

[JeffRyan]

Hey Pacal,
I consider myself an undereducated Eve Pilot, but I just can't find anywhere to gain those skills, they seem to be from forming large groups.
Ones to take shields down, ones to immobilise ships, and then the ones to shoot them down.

Thats great if you have pals playing... not so great as a loner..

Getting into factions/corps is ok, but until you guy mention the Uni, Id never heard of it..

*i may fire Eve up this after noon now*

Combat in EVE is definitely more about rules lawyering than skill in piloting. It's a complex game of rock paper scissors.

 

[PacalB]

Hey Pacal,
I consider myself an undereducated Eve Pilot, but I just can't find anywhere to gain those skills, they seem to be from forming large groups.
Ones to take shields down, ones to immobilise ships, and then the ones to shoot them down.

Thats great if you have pals playing... not so great as a loner..

Getting into factions/corps is ok, but until you guy mention the Uni, Id never heard of it..

*i may fire Eve up this after noon now*

I'm retired now, Eve wise but I have enough links/contacts to point you in a good direction if you still play the thing. Merely look me up in Eve, "Pacal Balan" I'll see if I can help you.

 

[PacalB]

I think you're under-estimating how CCP embraced this philosophy... the more ships are destroyed, the more people need money, it's the basis of the economy and also what generates the need for people to buy PLEX. Which CCP whole-heartedly approves of. Whenever Alex organises one of his mass attack protests, he's actually feeding the EVE economy and making CCP very happy. Which is why they dedicate nodes to his mass events. The more ships die, the more money is needed, the more PLEX is bought. This is why the only time CCP worries about PLEX is when the price goes to high (more for the player, less for CCP).

Agreed, totally.

 

[PacalB]

Well I know absolutely nothing first hand of Eve - or any other multiplayer online games (apart from Urban Dead).

But I've read a great deal about Eve and some multiplayer mindsets and griefing activities over the last few weeks.

It seems to me that DB and FD's attitude towards that sort of thing combined with instancing and groups should nullify the worst of "Goon" type behaviour so I'm reasonably hopeful that PacalB's doom laden prophecy won't come to pass...

It is not my intention to come across as a doomsayer, merely to point out that the universe and game will change from what it is "hoped for" on the forums like this. DB is a smart man, I am sure he's seen the Eve mechanic in full effect and will be planning to counter or control the negative parts that will be spilling over into this new world/universe. The problem is, as the money runs in, do you hold form to your vision or do you go the path of the money crowd? CCP went with the money crowd and lost vision of what made the game special, how will this be done different?

 

[Jason S]

So too much being killed by others thirst to kill yourself and too much grind and futility.

I have heard this song about Eve many times.

Lets make ED a multiplayer Elite and not Eve. Please !

 

[Jason S]

So a 2nd post which is justified to say that thank our shiny lucky stars that we have single player mode which we can go to should heaven forbid ED Adopt the Eve gameplay I am reading here.

 

[JeffRyan]

So too much being killed by others thirst to kill yourself and too much grind and futility.

I have heard this song about Eve many times.

Lets make ED a multiplayer Elite and not Eve. Please !

I don't mind being killed in EVE. Which is part of the problem, it's so common you don't bat an eyelid, which is what this original problem was, this disconnect I have with the world of New Eden.

 

[Jason S]

Perhaps ED is a game slanted more to finding the game you want in the way you want rather than everyone destroying everyone else.

 

[Captain N]

You got to pilot your ships, just not from the first person cockpit view. For those that think there was/is no art or skill in piloting an Eve ship, they are simply mistaken.

Clicking on a target and telling your ship to "go there" or "attack that" and then leaning back and watching the autopilot do all the work is not piloting for me.

I'm one of those types who sell the autopilot (useless piece of trash!) in Frontier and fly everywhere manually. I like to perform the mid-journey turning around and decelerating myself, not just because it gets me to the destination in shorter in-game time, but because I just enjoy it that much, being in complete direct control of my ship.

I don't doubt there's tactics and strategy involved in Eve combat, but you're not actually steering the ship by turning a joystick with your own hands. You're not adjusting to vectors, performing evasive manoeuvres, leading your target. It's not twitch-based. That was what I was getting at.

 

[ianw]

It is not my intention to come across as a doomsayer, merely to point out that the universe and game will change from what it is "hoped for" on the forums like this. DB is a smart man, I am sure he's seen the Eve mechanic in full effect and will be planning to counter or control the negative parts that will be spilling over into this new world/universe. The problem is, as the money runs in, do you hold form to your vision or do you go the path of the money crowd? CCP went with the money crowd and lost vision of what made the game special, how will this be done different?

I understand where you're coming from - and FD is a business after all (a very successful one judging by their pre Kickstarter year end accounts too)..

We'll see how it turns out - but I have a gut feeling it will be okay mainly based on what I've seen from DB himself.

Time will tell..

 

[JeffRyan]

Clicking on a target and telling your ship to "go there" or "attack that" and then leaning back and watching the autopilot do all the work is not piloting for me.

I'm one of those types who sell the autopilot (useless piece of trash!) in Frontier and fly everywhere manually. I like to perform the mid-journey turning around and decelerating myself, not just because it gets me to the destination in shorter in-game time, but because I just enjoy it that much, being in complete direct control of my ship.

I don't doubt there's tactics and strategy involved in Eve combat, but you're not actually steering the ship by turning a joystick with your own hands. You're not adjusting to vectors, performing evasive manoeuvres, leading your target. It's not twitch-based. That was what I was getting at.

It's about trying to beat your enemy's fit with your own fit. They have a certain type of resistance bonus on one type of damage you have to fit another type of weapon that does damage to something they don't have resistance to. Their defense is mainly shields, your attack must have mainly shield damage then switch to hull damage ammo when that is gone. It's about knowing how to orbit and approach the enemy not straight on. That's what it's about and it's very very complex and subtle. It's about having the best DPS (to the point where we've developed alpha-strike tactics, a group of ships that are 'glass cannons', but they're very very effective en masse). Like I said, rules lawyering, understanding the system and how it works and exploiting it for maximum efficiency. There's very little raw 'I'm a great pilot' skill involved.