All they need to do is get rid of the Weapon special effects. If they do that, then all this becomes manageable. Until they do however, space magic will be king of the day when it comes to combat.
Why so much hate for the Engineers?
- Thread starter Kapow
- Start date
All they need to do is get rid of the Weapon special effects. If they do that, then all this becomes manageable. Until they do however, space magic will be king of the day when it comes to combat.
What are you flying btw? No reason, just curious
Seriously, quit talking about stuff you only know from watching videos and overhearing conversations from various players who've dared to go into Open before scurrying back into Mobius to tell the tale of horror...I'm currently in the bounty hunting CG and that's ALL that the PvPers are pulling over right now; any combat ship regardless of rank who's willing to let themselves be interdicted.
Please refrain from personal attacks sir as I have done none of that when pointing out the obvious flaws in your arguments.
I fly my I win button FDL and my Exploration anaconda and AspX for the most part. Had to sell off all the trade ships because they are worthless now.
I am not overhearing. I have seen and I have been attacked by said idiots before. I generally kill them however its not because I was better equipped. I won because the pilots I fought could not fly because they rely on their engineering crap to win fights. They never learned how to fly and reverski and jousting will only let you win fights if you are engineered up. I want a better class of criminal when I get Pirated.
I dont play in mobius and do not appreciate this childish attempt a retaliatory statement to debunk known facts. I believe one specific griefing group in game has a whole twitch channel dedicated to this kind of play.
I play the game often both in combat ships like my FDL and my now 2 current non combat ships. I get yanked out in interdiction almost 90% of the time in my AspX. Hardly ever in the other 2. I think maybe a dozen times in 2 years in my anaconda and 3 or 4 times in my FDL. From the complaints online in this forum,reddit, and various youtube channels my experience of primarily getting blown up on non combat ships is the norm.
Yes and as soon as that CG is over its back on the non combat ships. The fact that CGs are only centered around one aspect be it trading, combat, or exploration of some kind is an issue. Combat bounties should be part of every single CG in conjunction with whatever else is required.
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I was joking when I asked you about your ships...and no personal attacks my friend, but just because you've had some experiences and you like to cite videos on youtube doesn't make an entire case. Try not to be so injured by someone who is simply challenging your subjective statements, alright?
Achilles7
Banned
Huh?
Well, which is it?..Given that those 3 modules are the primary focus along with weapons, in any ship!
I am saying that my views are not subjective. I am saying that the community is already complaining about this stuff and from all of my experiences it backs up their complaints. I get blown up by fully kitted Engineered combat ships while in non combat ships and I hardly get bothered when in others. The gap between a fully engineered combat ship and a fully engineered non combat ship is much much larger than it was before the engineers.
An A rated FDL versus an A Rated t-9 at least afforded the T-9 a chance to escape. That is no longer possible even if the T-9 is fully engineered. Pure DPS, flying skill and ship grade no longer matter. All that matters is how fast you can drop a shield and blow up modules. Once at least one of the following is taken out (thrusters, power plant, FDL, or Distributor), then the fight is over. You can have the crappiest damage output possible, but because of that special effect, the fight has been won.
Thats all I am saying and that seems to be the consensus a large portion of the community.
I would agree on these.
Disagree on this - if they were of no real use, no one would care.
Z...
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I have everything else modified in my FDL accept for those last three things. I am just playing the game and that is just the order I unlocked the engineers. So once I decide on secondary weapon and then upgrade the Shield Thrusters and Distributor to G5, I will have a fully G5 engineered ship.
Easier to understand?
Ooh, I actually like the idea of rank 1 mods having less of an RNG effect than rank 5. Players would be even more furious though, so it would never fly. You're totally right than the degree of RNG is wildly overstated in game, but that's due to gameplay reasons. Players would complain even more than they are now if a top-end engineering mod gave them a 5% boost on something and not a 50%.
A whole lot of gamification comes into it, which is to be expected because this is after all, a game, my only point is that speculative mad-science-style bleeding-edge "engineering" (really more hacking / inventing) not having 100% predictable results, when you're talking about the exact high-end for what is possible in performance for a given part, is exactly what we would expect to see in the real world, and given the limitations of modeling each and every subcomponent, RNG is a reasonable approximation of these real-world conditions.
If people don't RNG here or don't think it's fun; that's fine, that's an opinion. If they say it's "unrealistic" though, they are quite simply wrong and ignorant of the realities involved.
None of enhancing anything is random. RNG does not work in the real world. For example in computers the FTW gauntlet edition of video cards. All the best GPUs with the least ammount of faults are used in that card allowing for overclocking and better performance. That is an engineered experience.
However if you are talking manufactured versus engineered, then they are 2 different things. Manufacturing has tolerances which must be met and are quiet random like the RNGineers.
However if you get if you take an object and only add the best of everything to it and machine it down to the most minute tolerances, then the performance is much better and controllable than just your plain stock manufactured product.
I think that is all the other guy is saying.
Sole Hunter
Banned
which is why you should hold on purchasing horizon, it adds almost nothing in terms of valuable content.
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Yes, but what I am saying is that those FTW Gauntlet edition cards are still engineered to within tolerances. You buy 10 of those, and you'll still be able to overclock some. And overclock some more than others. They are not at the top of the individual game, they are running at the best of what most of the stock that company bought can perform at. Because the idea of "engineering tolerances" in this context means that if you have one card that performs at X, five at X+1, two at X+2, and one at X+4, you don't sell five four different lines of cards, you just toss the one that performs at X and sell the rest as performing at "up to X+1!".
Engineering in-game means not just ignoring that "up to X+1" and overclocking it as much as you can (that's still mass-manufactured engineering), but also writing a custom firmware for the card, replacing all the thermals with something you just invented, swapping out capacitors for ones of your own design, and reinstalling the physical chips into a new circuit board you made.
When you are running something like that at it's highest-possible capacity, you don't get consistent performance out of multiple builds. They will vary slightly. Granted, they will likely not vary as much as they do in-game, but they will still vary, due to small differences in the components used, manufacturing conditions, and more. The RNG approximates that variance.
When people say they don't want RNG, the "correct" way to do this would be to do like the X+1 videocard makers, and just make every engineering mod perform at the worst levels possible under normal use. Because THAT is how it works with the "mods" people do in real life that have "predictable" results.
Yes engineered tolerances are in the single digit range. Generally below 2%. The current engineers have a range of 10%+ ranges of tolerances. The engineers are currently closer to general product manufacturing and less about engineering.
Another good example is the after market shops for cars. Cobra takes the mustang and you can get multiple products that have all been engineered for maximum performance. They make more than just one copy of the car several hundreds or more. All of those cars generally all have the same exact performance minus or plus 1HP or so.
That is not the case in ED. You can get a Grade 5 upgrade that is worse than a decent Grade 4 upgrade. If they are really building and engineering those parts, then the tolerances would be much smaller. We know thats not the case in ED.
Its almost as if the Engineers take your parts throw them into a room with a bunch of Jawas and just tell them to make it better. Who knows what those Jawas will do that thing. Hopefully they dont hire on Ewok Contractors to assist with the work. Nobody wants a wooden multicannon.
Technically speaking, "engineers" is very much the wrong word to describe what the engineers do. But if you call them "inventors" it sounds stupid, and the "The Experimental Scientists" is a bad patch name.
Technically speaking, "engineers" is very much the wrong word to describe what the engineers do. But if you call them "inventors" it sounds stupid, and the "The Experimental Scientists" is a bad patch name.
Mad Scientists of space!
I have unlocked three engineers just simply by playing the game so far the two that do the jump drives i call them FTL's because of Battlestar Galactica ,, anyway and ive unlocked who i call the machinegun guy the one that does multi cannons an such . And still have not so much as set foot in an engineers base so to speak . Simply because i know from here and YouTube that it is a life sucking experience to undertake. I have six ships all A class except the Anaconda ,, and while i would love to up the jump range of my diamondback Explorer just to see how much farther it can jump or take the mighty little Keel back in two make it even better farming a high res site ,,, what you dont do that with your Keel back? well i like it and im a bounty hunter . Did you know you can bounty hunt in a Beluga Liner well you can but not very well but you look so good doing it though . Anyway ive side track though hopefully in an enjoyable way . But the point is i dont engineer because it seems like it would be summer time again before i got one ship done . I love my ships but i dont think i love them that much .
You should engineer some. As with everything on the internet, people massively overstate the negatives. It takes three mods of the level you're on, just three, to move to the next rep level. You can probably do a fair number of rank one mods on your ships just with what you've passively collected by playing the game, and while they aren't mind-blowing, you can pretty easily squeeze out a bit of extra speed or jump range on your ships.
It can get frustrating if you're the kind of person who thinks that you have to have all rank 5 mods, all with perfect rolls, and all with the special effects you most want, but the easily solution there is... just don't be that kind of person. Pretty easy. If you're already not caring about engineering, you're probably not that kind of person.
I will give it a try then after setting at 17 draconis doing donation missions to midshipman an onward to 68% to the next rank i should do something else. Did you know the Dropship has a coffee maker in it ? great looking ship terrible gun placement though .
I read most of the posts.. well, with one thing I can agree for sure: I do not want to be wanted, I do not want to do anything against my role play.. I understand that obtaining materials to rank with the engineers is supposed to be a challenge, but there's ought to be an alternative..
For now, I just do not see it (keep on attacking harmless surface bases to obtain some stupid data - frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
For now, I just do not see it (keep on attacking harmless surface bases to obtain some stupid data - frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
I didn't say that engineering was good. I said it had one thing right and that's creating a game play mechanic that forces you to get out of your combat ship (even if you wanted to upgrade your combat ship) for a good amount of the activity. Ideally this mechanic would force you into heavily slanted trader/miner ships, making you a target for enemies.
Now to say that engineers doesn't currently do that at least moderately is just flat lying. You see posts on here all the time about some whiner complaining that they need commodity storage and trading because they become pirate bait whenever they have a couple tons of engineer cargo in their hold. If it was that easy in these non-combat only ships then why complain?
I'm not saying it's hard for me. I dont need to fly around in the game in a trade-maxed ship with no shields or weapons because I can't bear to spend the time for 3 more jumps a run or not hitting my max potential credits per hour mark. Some people choose to play that way and make themselves _more_ prey than they need to doing a particular activity. That's their choice though. Nobody is forcing them to equip D class everything and underpowered shields.
The ideal end-game content should require you to utilize many types of loadouts with none being a jack of all trades trumping the raw potential of a specialized in the same class.
Your points on balance and npc difficulty is another topic and I agree, they are far too easy. Unfortunately, it's hard to balance a game properly when you dont have the option of fixing the game's code so the absolutely most logical option of having criminal npc difficulty be geographically determined will have to wait until FD decides game balance is kinda important.
so hold your breath on that one.
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i think the alternative is just in need of tweaking the code that selects what mats are awarded in missions. Most if not all surface data materials are supposed to be able to be acquired via missions or USS's
I know that's not how it is... but that alternative exists already. Just poorly.