Well as most of the idea for this is to allow pirates to make sure they can get their cargo before someone logs perhaps FD could decrease the self destruct to 5 or 10 seconds for the players who would rather do that than give anything to a pirate,
With the implementation o NEW Karma e C&P - Will the Log timer go up? 15 secs is to low!
- Thread starter CMDR GTR2014
- Start date
Well as most of the idea for this is to allow pirates to make sure they can get their cargo before someone logs perhaps FD could decrease the self destruct to 5 or 10 seconds for the players who would rather do that than give anything to a pirate,
Aye I have zero against pirates, the problem is pirates that aren't pirates.
If I were venturing in open, and I submit to a pirate to play the part, if they then just start shooting... there's no clean exit. If they shoot your fsd out, then it's just a jamjar death. I think with limiting options, imminent death, and no clean way to exit.. folks will have a choice.. pull the plug, or simply don't play in open.
Both are pretty awful choices... atleast with the timer as it is now, you can menu exit. I just can't help to predict the reality is it'll either create more combat logging (karma or no karma).. or it'll drive even more out of open mode.
I don't mind if the timer is increased. Nor will I mind if it stays the same. What I do mind, and will mind, is if I have to sit and wait the n seconds before I'm allowed to confirm that I really wanted to log out.
If I can select logout, click confirm that I didn't accidentally do so, then go and do my thing safe in the knowledge that within n seconds my ship will be either safely logged out or blown up but definitely not still sitting there, I will be happy.
Luckily for me, and for those who think the timer is too short, Sandro confirmed at Lavecon that they are thinking about increasing the timer and that they won't do it without adding a way to preconfirm the logout.
CSB: I once lost a ship when I got interdicted and the doorbell rang. I didn't mind losing the ship because I knew I had the choice of answering the door and leaving it in danger or risking having whoever it was give up on me while I waited to confirm the logout. I chose real life. Which turned out to be a mistake as it was a representative for the Liberal Democrats canvassing for support but I didn't know that. Had I been able to confirm the logout and leave the ship in the game for fifteen seconds it would probably have survived. It might even have survived sixty seconds. It had no chance to wait out the five minutes or so I ended up being gone.
If I can select logout, click confirm that I didn't accidentally do so, then go and do my thing safe in the knowledge that within n seconds my ship will be either safely logged out or blown up but definitely not still sitting there, I will be happy.
Luckily for me, and for those who think the timer is too short, Sandro confirmed at Lavecon that they are thinking about increasing the timer and that they won't do it without adding a way to preconfirm the logout.
CSB: I once lost a ship when I got interdicted and the doorbell rang. I didn't mind losing the ship because I knew I had the choice of answering the door and leaving it in danger or risking having whoever it was give up on me while I waited to confirm the logout. I chose real life. Which turned out to be a mistake as it was a representative for the Liberal Democrats canvassing for support but I didn't know that. Had I been able to confirm the logout and leave the ship in the game for fifteen seconds it would probably have survived. It might even have survived sixty seconds. It had no chance to wait out the five minutes or so I ended up being gone.
Deleted member 110222
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Thank you.
All I can say is, if the timer does get increased, I won't be able to play in Open anymore.
Reason being, whether you choose to believe me or not, (I don't care either way), my life is simply that unpredictable. Relatives who are slowly dying of old age, other family who lash out at me because they see me as a scapegoat... I can only describe my life circumstances as fecal matter. 15 seconds... That's the absolute limit I can wait in an emergency, which happens enough for me to worry about it. Any longer... Sorry, wouldn't be fair for me to present myself as an adversary in Open, and thus I'd only be able to justify playing in Solo/PG.
So if FD decides to make such a change, well quite simply, I'll be forced out of Open out of consideration for other players.
I hope this won't seem unfriendly (particularly given Un1k0rn's difficult personal circumstances, which I am sorry to read of) but - purely and absolutely from the niche and entirely selfish perspective of a PvP-er - I wish that players of your opinion would refrain from playing in Open now, let alone in the future.
Put simply, I wish Open was composed entirely of those of us who will neither task-kill combat log, nor menu quit, from PvP. As you guys have both made it clear that in some circumstances you will menu quit, I'd rather not see you on my scanner in the first place.
(I should add that in my personal case this is all academic unless you are Wanted or a Powerplay enemy, as I don't attack save when The Loach intended.)
I'm not trying to be antisocial here, and I 100% accept that there are a lot of sociable PvE-ers out there who like to see other Cmdrs around and probably don't care whether they use the menu quit at all ... but what I'm saying is, the PvP side of this debate will not miss the loss of menu quitters from Open, as a result of increased timer + karma ... on the contrary, as most of us would rather they were gone already, it would actually be a bonus.
Apologies for my candour, guys.
Deleted member 110222
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Sorry mate, but I disagree. Why should I not play a mode because my life is *redacted*?
Im done talking to you. What so you said is so short-sighted that it's not even funny.
Sorry for being harsh, but I'm pretty offended.
I'm very sorry for your situation but he made clear his point of view, and frankly I agree with it. You can't play an online game and suddently quit, you are ruining other people game experience this way. In this case you are lucky with elite, you can play in solo/pg, the same thing I do when I know that works can call anytime.
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that system is NO WHERE NEAR right now ... & as far as I'm concerned it should never be put in game. Shore up the police flying around stations...make the station reach more than 4-5km...I can only imagine the nightmare of FDev implementing yet another system that will break 20 other things in game just to make a few whiney crybabies happy. Stay in solo/private groups if you are getting ganked. Teddy Roosevelt had a way to deal with this ... walk quietly & carry a big stick.
I agree, but I'm going to go a step further apply this line of reasoning to all willful exploits across all modes.
I'm content with there being different modes for different tastes, but fact of the matter is that we are all still playing the same game, together, and what each of us does has at least some impact, however small or diluted, on essentially everyone else. Any cheater, in any mode, is harming everyone's game.
Obviously, it's not up to me, but if it were, I suspect I'd be removing a significant minority of the player base because they are unwilling to play an honest game and accept the consequences of their actions.
You take the game to serious, way to serious.
What you wrote is not the entirely selfish perspective of a PvPer. It's just the entirely selfish perspective of you.
Forcing players to play doesn't work. It will never work.
Seems to me that the selfish action is playing with the intent to log on the opponent when losing, the opponent gets all the risk for playing honest and the cheater circumvents fair ingame play.
Because really that's the issue at play here, logging on players as opposed to just logging on NPCs. The latter isn't really an issue, not compared to logging on a player engagement.
I find myself agreeing with you so much that it almost feels like I'm your alt account. Sans the flying skill, though.
@Unikorn, you need to lighten up a little. All of our lives are full of complications, assuming we're all adults; lives are full of interruptions, every adult here knows that, yours is no more busy than anybody else's, and here's an important consideration--when you enter into PvP you've entered into a compact with the other party, a compact that means that you and he/they have agreed to a certain set of rules of conduct. Unceremoniously quitting the field using an exploit is against that compact, if not technically then at least in spirit
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The comment I replied to was about players having to quit playing because of important things happening that need their attention (at least that's how I understood it).
Using the menu log out just to avoid destruction is indeed selfish and doing so repeatedly is - in my opinion - a clear sign that that player isn't interested in PvP and therefore shouldn't play in an environment where PvP is possible.
Some players are way to much focused on wining that they apparently have forgotten that playing the game is supposed to be fun. Works for both "sides" - those who insist on getting the "kill" and those who think logging out just to avoid "not winning".
Why insisting on getting "the kill" if that kill isn't "earned" by a real fight. Destroying a ship that's not under the control of a player isn't PvP or playing the game.
Login out while in combat isn't playing the game.
The log out timer is there to allow players to exit the game even in a dangerous situation, because there are situations where a player needs to react to something more important than the game.
Maybe increasing the log out timer every time it is used could be a solution (and reducing it over time).
For example:
First use: 5s
Second use within X days or hours or Y time period: 10s
Third use: 15s
…
That way those players who really have to react to something important can do use it. Those who just use it to avoid ship destruction will soon face very long log out times*.
Those who don't know how often they have to react to other things and need to log out anytime should consider playing in Solo or Private Mode (PvE) - or simply don't seek out places where they get constantly into dangerous situations.
Could that be a compromise?
who the quote comes from doesn't matter so long as the message is clear and fits even hitler was right about a few things.... now that aside you should feel bad for making me waste a minute or more of my life after the ai has exploded (and i need to take care of a desperate kid) and im sitting there twiddling my thumbs because you couldn't be smart enough to come up with a solution to kill a standstill or drifting ship with no input on vector, speed or pip's. as i said earlier you will be able to do this if you stopped cheese balling with cannon/pack hound load out.
Put the suggestion forwards before that the timer does need to increase, either to 30 secs or preferably a minute, and then auto-log to menu.
We aren't getting rid of menu logging as FD seem keen on it, but it doesn't really do what it's supposed to on either side atm. 15 secs isn't enough to discourage most players logging as a method of evading risk, but having to wait for the timer to expire to log out defeats the point of it "when real life happens", which is exactly why it was implemented in the first place.
We aren't getting rid of menu logging as FD seem keen on it, but it doesn't really do what it's supposed to on either side atm. 15 secs isn't enough to discourage most players logging as a method of evading risk, but having to wait for the timer to expire to log out defeats the point of it "when real life happens", which is exactly why it was implemented in the first place.
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The idea of making it keep you in game but let you select to log immediately without waiting is great, and I support the increase in time remaining in game for open only.
The reason to keep the time low even without the wait before for solo especially and pve groups as well is this is where you go if you may have to make a quick exit due to real life stuff. I see no reason why a real life emergency in a game mode where it doesn't effect another player (like logging from a pvp encounter does) should risk destruction of you ship by an npc.
Yes the window is small for this to happen even with a minute, but suppose you're in a rez and have been playing for an hour when you suddenly need to go, I don't see why a real life emergency should risk possible loss of this progress to a random npc kill.
The reason to keep the time low even without the wait before for solo especially and pve groups as well is this is where you go if you may have to make a quick exit due to real life stuff. I see no reason why a real life emergency in a game mode where it doesn't effect another player (like logging from a pvp encounter does) should risk destruction of you ship by an npc.
Yes the window is small for this to happen even with a minute, but suppose you're in a rez and have been playing for an hour when you suddenly need to go, I don't see why a real life emergency should risk possible loss of this progress to a random npc kill.
Deleted member 110222
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I hope that's the case. As it stands right now I have to stay at my computer when I have family screaming at me to get downstairs.
Yes, they still don't understand that I can't pause an online game.
That's only the case if the PvP in question is consensual on the part of all parties involved.
When you inderdict another player, they haven't agreed to anything until they fire back.
On the contrary. You've given your consent by clicking the button marked Open