With the implementation o NEW Karma e C&P - Will the Log timer go up? 15 secs is to low!

[Theodrid]

One party is being reasonable. One party is simply not. This is a game, and our spaceships are indeed quite make believe.

Yes they are Jason but let's not pretend, even for a second, that this attachment to pixels is a one sided affair. Sure, some PVE players don't like losing their ships but many PVP players get worked up about virtual spaceships vanishing on them, (logging), and virtual modules being taken away. Now sure, logging is wrong, cheating and shouldn't be happening but it is still just pretend spaceships. Also, if it is all so unimportant why did some PVP players feel the need to cheat and lie in order to get an advantage over other pretend spaceships and then bleat when virtual module pixels were taken away?

 

[Lateralus]

Increase the timer to 30 seconds, show a [System] message in the comms panel that CMDR [x] is logging out (only shows on a timed menu log) and give them a moderate karma hit if they do log out.

For process kill loggers give them a large karma hit when a pattern emerges.

 

[sollisb]

The fact is, while players are killing newbies and winging up to kill those they can't kill alone, you have as much credibility as a fox in a hen house.

Can make it 30 minutes for all I care.. I won't be playing your game, I'll be playing mine

 

[Lateralus]

The fact is, while players are killing newbies and winging up to kill those they can't kill alone, you have as much credibility as a fox in a hen house.

Sounds like you're engaging in a bit of whataboutery there...

Can make it 30 minutes for all I care.. I won't be playing your game, I'll be playing mine

Have fun!

 

[Vorxian]

I personally believe that ofc everything here is make believe.... But, attachment is a personal thing. I am attached to (mostly my Cutter and my ASP) ships because my daughter was sitting on my lap when I bought the Cutter the first time, and being only 5 at the time, I let her take the stick and pilot it out on her first maiden voyage. She did great, and being able to name the ship after her means a lot to me. Similarly the ASPex, she sat on my lap pointing at the different stars and she likes cats, so the first place I explored was the cats paw with her. It's the same ASPX as always, and flying it reminds me of a toddler girl with a fascination with the stars.. the rest of my ships.. they're just ships.

Absolutely I'm attached to the cutter and the asp, not because they're pixels, but because they represent much more than that.

If the logoff timer gets to the point that it becomes unreasonable, then i may also consider alternative logoff methods. I would be happy for it to be upped to 20 seconds, on the proviso that I can still control my ship, and the logoff happens automatically once the 20s has expired. 20 seconds will be ok in that case.

In other news I have had 27 insurance claims Mostly boost mishaps inside stations... Doh.

 

[Truesilver]

I personally believe that ofc everything here is make believe.... But, attachment is a personal thing. I am attached to (mostly my Cutter and my ASP) ships because my daughter was sitting on my lap when I bought the Cutter the first time, and being only 5 at the time, I let her take the stick and pilot it out on her first maiden voyage. She did great, and being able to name the ship after her means a lot to me. Similarly the ASPex, she sat on my lap pointing at the different stars and she likes cats, so the first place I explored was the cats paw with her. It's the same ASPX as always, and flying it reminds me of a toddler girl with a fascination with the stars.. the rest of my ships.. they're just ships.

Absolutely I'm attached to the cutter and the asp, not because they're pixels, but because they represent much more than that.

If the logoff timer gets to the point that it becomes unreasonable, then i may also consider alternative logoff methods. I would be happy for it to be upped to 20 seconds, on the proviso that I can still control my ship, and the logoff happens automatically once the 20s has expired. 20 seconds will be ok in that case.

In other news I have had 27 insurance claims Mostly boost mishaps inside stations... Doh.

Whilst I hope that your Cutter and your Asp will survive the various perils we as pilots face, I also hope that Sandro will impose both a lengthy menu quit timer and seriously punitive karma for a task-kill ...

... meaning that if your Cutter and your Asp survive, it will be because you piloted these worthy vessels to safety, rather than using magic immortality god silly handwavium teleportation to save their disgraced and forever accursed undead hulls.

 

[Morbad]

If the logoff timer gets to the point that it becomes unreasonable, then i may also consider alternative logoff methods.

How long is 'unreasonable' if it doesn't have to be attended (e.g. you accept at the beginning of the time and can do other things or minimize the game)?

I would be happy for it to be upped to 20 seconds, on the proviso that I can still control my ship, and the logoff happens automatically once the 20s has expired. 20 seconds will be ok in that case.

Being able to control the ship during the timer is pretty absurd and would be open to even more abuse than the current system.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Let's be honest, all the people asking for a time extension, or even funnier, a time reset for every hit taken, well they can deny this all they want...

They're just making veiled requests for the timer to be removed, as their requests are, in practical terms, an outright removal of the timer & legitimate log-out mid-combat.

Has it occurred to them that Frontier WANTS players to potentially avoid a re-buy if life happens? One has to think why the developer put in the current system. And like all things, some people won't like it.

PvP'ers, in this case, are those who don't like it. Considering they've had entire patches dedicated to their playstyle, I think there being one design decision that doesn't pander to them, isn't the end of the world.

As I've seen so many people say here to PvE'ers, "life ain't perfect."

 

[Vorxian]

Whilst I hope that your Cutter and your Asp will survive the various perils we as pilots face

Haha yes me to.. It's garaged at the moment, but, as it has so much sentimental value, i'd sooner purchase a second one, than to risk the original in the maw of doom (open)! I have been tempted to get a second though..

How long is 'unreasonable' if it doesn't have to be attended (e.g. you accept at the beginning of the time and can do other things or minimize the game)?

Unreasonable to me doesn't have a definitive cut off point. It gradually gets to a point where you go to log off, and see [insert timer here] and either think.. ok nps, countdown.. in xyz.. or you'll go to log off, and the timer exceeds your patience level. At this point the timer is a barrier between you and real life, especially if a penalty for not waiting leaves your ship vulnerable and you lose a lot of game time as a result.

Being able to control the ship during the timer is pretty absurd and would be open to even more abuse than the current system.

Not sure why it's absurd.. it is after all your ship, and you're the pilot. Logging off is simply a clean disconnect from the server. It should have no impact on the game itself... hey you're about to enjoy some real life, so we'll paralyze your pilot in game as punishment... that's absurd. I may want to do a few loop-the-loops whilst the timer runs dry, or show off to the cameras in my last moments. Hitting my avatar in game with an unavoidable stun dart when you choose to log off is a bit gamey and absurd..

 

[Han_Zen]

The timer should be long enough for it to be faster to hi wake(20 sec. should be plenty long).

Hi wake should be practically unstoppable. If you want to hunt people you need a wake scanner and jump range.

If you can't bother to fit those, stick to arranged duels.

 

[Truesilver]

The timer should be long enough for it to be faster to hi wake(20 sec. should be plenty long).

I agree that using an out-of-game quit to escape peril should always be longer / disadvantageous compared to using in-game piloting.

However, to achieve that, it would need to be far longer.

A ship that fights the interdiction, fails, has to wait out FSD cooldown, then gets hit with a Gromma-Bomma, then has to wait out FSD reboot ... has to survive for a heck of a lot longer than 20 seconds.

And once we get to activating the menu quit to escape a little 0% Drives or 0% FSD problem ... the timer could never be too long.

 

[Han_Zen]

I agree that using an out-of-game quit to escape peril should always be longer / disadvantageous compared to using in-game piloting.

However, to achieve that, it would need to be far longer.

A ship that fights the interdiction, fails, has to wait out FSD cooldown, then gets hit with a Gromma-Bomma, then has to wait out FSD reboot ... has to survive for a heck of a lot longer than 20 seconds.

And once we get to activating the menu quit to escape a little 0% Drives or 0% FSD problem ... the timer could never be too long.

It's tricky to make the timer to long as standard, because it would be an issue with RL interuptions. NPC farming is probably the single most popular activity in ED. It puts you constantly in combat.

If it should be set longer, it should be for player encounters only(they are to rare to make a long timer a real issue).

 

[Ian Skippy]

Let's be honest, all the people asking for a time extension, or even funnier, a time reset for every hit taken, well they can deny this all they want...

They're just making veiled requests for the timer to be removed, as their requests are, in practical terms, an outright removal of the timer & legitimate log-out mid-combat.

Has it occurred to them that Frontier WANTS players to potentially avoid a re-buy if life happens? One has to think why the developer put in the current system. And like all things, some people won't like it.

PvP'ers, in this case, are those who don't like it. Considering they've had entire patches dedicated to their playstyle, I think there being one design decision that doesn't pander to them, isn't the end of the world.

As I've seen so many people say here to PvE'ers, "life ain't perfect."

Its a strawman to pretend 'its a PvP thing'. Terms like 'pandering' dont make an argument. The fact that FD themselves said they are seriously considering extending it means something is wrong with it.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Its a strawman to pretend 'its a PvP thing'. Terms like 'pandering' dont make an argument. The fact that FD themselves said they are seriously considering extending it means something is wrong with it.

Okay, fair enough. Can you link me to someone who matters at FD saying they're thinking of extending it?

Seriously, I've never seen this.

 

[Mohrgan]

Okay, fair enough. Can you link me to someone who matters at FD saying they're thinking of extending it?

Seriously, I've never seen this.

I just have no Link-Fu so that's out of the question, but I can confirm that Sandro, recently (since the Notoriety issues has been introduced) that there is serious consideration for moving the timer out to '30 to 60' seconds. But, they also said they were thinking of reducing the targeting arc of gimballed weapons. And we see where that went. Cogent arguments from either side are still pertinent.
I

 

[Cervantes01]

The log timer should be 15 minutes like in Eve Online lol...

 

[Siobhan]

The log timer should be 15 minutes like in Eve Online lol...

And people think Open is empty now...

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

Okay, fair enough. Can you link me to someone who matters at FD saying they're thinking of extending it?

Seriously, I've never seen this.

Here you go:

Hello Commander Cocalarix!

So we would not by default penalise using the combat timer.

However, we're still considering increasing this value to thirty/sixty seconds.

And well, if we thought it would be useful, we could clearly add some minor bad karma for this action.

Clicking on the blue arrow will take you to the thread.

 

[Truesilver]

Apologies for being self-referential but I still think that the solution to the occasional need to go AFK as referenced here ...

Has it occurred to them that Frontier WANTS players to potentially avoid a re-buy if life happens? One has to think why the developer put in the current system. And like all things, some people won't like it.

It's tricky to make the timer to long as standard, because it would be an issue with RL interuptions. NPC farming is probably the single most popular activity in ED. It puts you constantly in combat.

... might be AI controlled high wake as I suggested here ...

I think there might be a solution to this problem and perhaps even to much of combat logging generally ...

... NPC controlled high-wake.

I (as hypothetical aggressor, eg Powerplay) don't have a problem with my enemy hitting a 'get me outta here!' key and then either watching tensely or even going AFK while their ship, on autopilot or via crew member, clears any mass-locking bodies and then high wakes.

NPC's already do this all the time, so the AI is already in game.

My only stipulation would be that said 'auto high wake' be reasonably slow - nothing like as fast as a skilled, experienced player, more at the level of a flustered newcomer - to give pirates and PvP attackers a fair chance to do their thing.

In other words, it should never confer an advantage on the player using it (because they would have been better off high waking themselves) but it would give them an option of escape that wouldn't break anybody's immersion.

... although I would repeat that I don't think this would be fair if the AI were really good at high-waking. It shouldn't be so slow that it's useless - but it should be slow enough that the considerable majority of players would have been better off going through the process themselves.

The game should always aim to reward us for piloting effort, imo, whether it's via a fixed multi-cannon doing more damage than a gimballed multi-cannon, or a piloted exit being quicker than a menu quit.

This is why I find the current situation untenable. For escape, you're quite plainly better off engaging the magic handwavium 15 second teleportation, than engaging your FSD.

 

[Vorxian]

Be interesting if they do increase the timer to one-minute.

That's taking a lot with one hand. Hope they give something back in the other that compensates.

I'm really worried ED is stepping into the 'jamjar' combat we see in EVE.