Would like a new, different exploration ship from FD:

[popuptoaster]

What we actually need is a buff to exploration itself that negates everyones weird desire to go a long way really fast, scan a few systems and then come back really fast.

Last time i went out for a bit of a wander around the galaxy I found several unclaimed Earth-like worlds within 100Ly of the bubble, these are easily reachable by just about any ship in the game other than the starting sidewinder with stock FSD but it would appear players are not interested in actual exploring so much as being able to claim vast distances travelled as some kind of badge of honour?

 

[Ziljan]

Personally, my favorite would be an Exploration Version of the FDL

I've had this crazy idea I've been promulgating for a while now, that "combat" ships should be given a tolerable jump range, so that they can ALL be pared down without weapons and used for exploration. Even a 30% increase to combat ship jump range would do the trick, bumping the pared down exploration build range from 30LY up to 40LY.

Anything below 40 LY is just too painful these days, and makes it too punishing to keep up with expedition groups, who tend to average 40-60LY. For instance, I brought my 28LY range T10 and had to fly it back to the bubble after the 1st waypoint of the Enigma expedition to swap it out for a DBX. Why a DBX? Because just like you, I am sick to death of the Asp/Conda cockpit. I spent the whole of Distant Worlds in a sputtering Asp, and have been permanently scarred by the flatulent engine sound, and the tank-slit view from the Conda just doesn't work for exploration.

 

[Lecitron]

Adding extra slots to exploration ships isn't going to make them better than a 'Conda though. It'll just mean you don't use all your internals.

Converting slots from open to exploration only simply reduces the versatility of ships, which I suspect would be unpopular.

Even if the Q4 exploration update includes new modules and the AspX and DBX get additional slots, they still won't compete with the 'Conda for range, since an exploration build for that is mostly empty space.

Depends if they are balanced or not

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I've had this crazy idea I've been promulgating for a while now, that "combat" ships should be given a tolerable jump range, so that they can ALL be pared down without weapons and used for exploration. Even a 30% increase to combat ship jump range would do the trick, bumping the pared down exploration build range from 30LY up to 40LY.

Anything below 40 LY is just too painful these days, and makes it too punishing to keep up with expedition groups, who tend to average 40-60LY. For instance, I brought my 28LY range T10 and had to fly it back to the bubble after the 1st waypoint of the Enigma expedition to swap it out for a DBX. Why a DBX? Because just like you, I am sick to death of the Asp/Conda cockpit. I spent the whole of Distant Worlds in a sputtering Asp, and have been permanently scarred by the flatulent engine sound, and the tank-slit view from the Conda just doesn't work for exploration.

I disagree, the game has and should have specialized ships. Military ships are military for a reason, exploration ships are exploration? for a reason.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

What we actually need is a buff to exploration itself that negates everyones weird desire to go a long way really fast, scan a few systems and then come back really fast.

Last time i went out for a bit of a wander around the galaxy I found several unclaimed Earth-like worlds within 100Ly of the bubble, these are easily reachable by just about any ship in the game other than the starting sidewinder with stock FSD but it would appear players are not interested in actual exploring so much as being able to claim vast distances travelled as some kind of badge of honour?

Longs distances show endurance, but I personally believe one can get a lot of experience by reaching the highest possible systems right above the bubble. BTW, some things just can't be seen in or close by the bubble like systems full of black holes, "O" type stars or experience complete (I really mean it) blackness in the edge of the galaxy.

 

[Mrat13]

Anything below 40 LY is just too painful these days, and makes it too punishing to keep up with expedition groups, who tend to average 40-60LY. For instance, I brought my 28LY range T10 and had to fly it back to the bubble after the 1st waypoint of the Enigma expedition to swap it out for a DBX. Why a DBX? Because just like you, I am sick to death of the Asp/Conda cockpit. I spent the whole of Distant Worlds in a sputtering Asp, and have been permanently scarred by the flatulent engine sound, and the tank-slit view from the Conda just doesn't work for exploration.

So what your saying is, non engineered ships are useless for expeditions?

Good to know. Stupid engineers.....

 

[V'larr]

Sigh, really? I mean seriously, have you read the thread? Because it sure doesn't seem like it.

This isn't a valid argument; it's attempting to minoritise entire exploration reasons. I could go on, but I won't. The entire argument isn't worth the time.

Oh, so let's get y about it, instead of thinking about what I mean with my opposing opinion?

For the record, no, I do not agree with any of Mengy's definition of an "exploration vessel".
1. Jump range isn't necessary, there's all kinds of hard proof of that, like TomParkes1993 taking every ship in the game to Sag. A and back (and I think he's started doing Beagle Point as well) or the fellow who spent 2 years going around the edge of the galaxy in a stock Sidewinder. Jump range is for people who wish to *travel* quickly as opposed to slowing down to look at the roses.
2. Supercruise agility is a convenience, not a necessity, especially when with supercruise, you're going to spend the vast majority of your time aiming at a focus point & not moving at all. (cough cough Fdev, look at my timer thread on that topic)
3. You also don't need 6 internals; you only need 2. The DSS is there for more credits & helps if you also bring an SRV, have horizons, and wish to find certain things on planet surfaces.
4. If you don't care about Horizons content, you also don't need the SRV.
5. I would personally highly recommend a shield if doing landings, but it's not a strict necessity since the vast majority of your time won't involve shielding, and many explorers even just turn the things off anyhow.
6. I've also, not once, ever had to use an AFMU. It's nice to have as a safety-measure if you're planning a year-long expedition or somesuch, but so long as you're paying half attention whilst jumping to and fro, you aren't going to need it. (I've been to Colonia twice without having to use a single heatsink, for that matter.)

So my whole point is that asking for a new "exploration ship" is practically just saying "Hey, Fdev, can we get a new ship?".

And no, I'm not against having new ships, more variety is always nice. But painting it as though the options we have for exploration ships - as opposed to fast traveling ships - are limited is, as I see it, wholly disingenuous when literally every available ship in the game will suffice for the job if you want it to.

 

[kofeyh]

Yeah, you want an OP 300ly jumprange.

Such salt, much point labouring, so grumpy. Wow.

 

[kofeyh]

Oh, so let's get y about it, instead of thinking about what I mean with my opposing opinion?

For the record, no, I do not agree with any of Mengy's definition of an "exploration vessel".

Because you only go to Sag A* and are oblivious to the several billion other stars, a number of which are on the fringes? Which is almost entirely what the topic has been discussing? Okay, gotcha.

 

[Mengy]

For the record, no, I do not agree with any of Mengy's definition of an "exploration vessel".
1. Jump range isn't necessary, there's all kinds of hard proof of that, like TomParkes1993 taking every ship in the game to Sag. A and back (and I think he's started doing Beagle Point as well) or the fellow who spent 2 years going around the edge of the galaxy in a stock Sidewinder. Jump range is for people who wish to *travel* quickly as opposed to slowing down to look at the roses.
2. Supercruise agility is a convenience, not a necessity, especially when with supercruise, you're going to spend the vast majority of your time aiming at a focus point & not moving at all. (cough cough Fdev, look at my timer thread on that topic)
3. You also don't need 6 internals; you only need 2. The DSS is there for more credits & helps if you also bring an SRV, have horizons, and wish to find certain things on planet surfaces.
4. If you don't care about Horizons content, you also don't need the SRV.
5. I would personally highly recommend a shield if doing landings, but it's not a strict necessity since the vast majority of your time won't involve shielding, and many explorers even just turn the things off anyhow.
6. I've also, not once, ever had to use an AFMU. It's nice to have as a safety-measure if you're planning a year-long expedition or somesuch, but so long as you're paying half attention whilst jumping to and fro, you aren't going to need it. (I've been to Colonia twice without having to use a single heatsink, for that matter.)

So my whole point is that asking for a new "exploration ship" is practically just saying "Hey, Fdev, can we get a new ship?".

And no, I'm not against having new ships, more variety is always nice. But painting it as though the options we have for exploration ships - as opposed to fast traveling ships - are limited is, as I see it, wholly disingenuous when literally every available ship in the game will suffice for the job if you want it to.

Reading through your points 1 through 6, I see that the problem is you don't understand the very job you say every ship in the game is viable for:

1. Star One. How many ships in the game can reach Star One? There are millions of systems just like that, only reachable by 50+ ly range ships. For a great many explorers, jump range is absolutely a priority.
2. SC agility saves time when scanning systems. Lots of time.
3. ADS, DSS, SRV, fuel scoop, AFMU, and a shield gen. Six internals to be fully prepared for long term deep space exploration. Anything less is very far from optimal and requires sacrificing something important.
4. What explorer doesn't want to explore planet surfaces?
5. Shields save hull points. Landing without a shield will gradually destroy the ship.
6. An AFMU is required if you are using neutron boosts, plus it is huge insurance against mistakes, which do happen even when tens of thousands of lys out in space.

Sure it is possible to explore while ignoring all six of your points, but then it's also possible to farm bounties in a CZ with a Sidewinder, but that does NOT make the Sidewinder a "combat ship".

The fact is that there are just certain traits which make a ship an exploration ship. Frontier understands this, and it's why they've improved the DBX and the Orca while also designing the Dolphin to be a potential explorer. Frontier thankfully gave explorers more choices after the first DWE showed just how limited our choices were. They agree with me, even if you do not, and that's all that really matters.

 

[monogenetic]

Jesus man there are 7 good explorer ships.

What’s wrong with having more options? You don’t want anything added to the game? Variety is a good thing.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Oh, so let's get y about it, instead of thinking about what I mean with my opposing opinion?

For the record, no, I do not agree with any of Mengy's definition of an "exploration vessel".
1. Jump range isn't necessary, there's all kinds of hard proof of that, like TomParkes1993 taking every ship in the game to Sag. A and back (and I think he's started doing Beagle Point as well) or the fellow who spent 2 years going around the edge of the galaxy in a stock Sidewinder. Jump range is for people who wish to *travel* quickly as opposed to slowing down to look at the roses.
2. Supercruise agility is a convenience, not a necessity, especially when with supercruise, you're going to spend the vast majority of your time aiming at a focus point & not moving at all. (cough cough Fdev, look at my timer thread on that topic)
3. You also don't need 6 internals; you only need 2. The DSS is there for more credits & helps if you also bring an SRV, have horizons, and wish to find certain things on planet surfaces.
4. If you don't care about Horizons content, you also don't need the SRV.
5. I would personally highly recommend a shield if doing landings, but it's not a strict necessity since the vast majority of your time won't involve shielding, and many explorers even just turn the things off anyhow.
6. I've also, not once, ever had to use an AFMU. It's nice to have as a safety-measure if you're planning a year-long expedition or somesuch, but so long as you're paying half attention whilst jumping to and fro, you aren't going to need it. (I've been to Colonia twice without having to use a single heatsink, for that matter.)

So my whole point is that asking for a new "exploration ship" is practically just saying "Hey, Fdev, can we get a new ship?".

And no, I'm not against having new ships, more variety is always nice. But painting it as though the options we have for exploration ships - as opposed to fast traveling ships - are limited is, as I see it, wholly disingenuous when literally every available ship in the game will suffice for the job if you want it to.

I honestly have to ask your exploration credentials to talk so confidently.

1º That's factually wrong. High jump range ships aren't only about travelling quickly, which isn't a sin. OFC all ships can explore but they can also trade and combat yet I don't see PvPers using Haulers because they aren't optimised for the job nor is it common at all to see people using the FGS while exploring. A good portion of the exploration community enjoys travelling to the fringes of the galaxy where only top notch ships can access.

2º Ummm, you have to turn in every jump as you cannot jump through a star. (cough, cough, isn't that thread dead already?)

3º Strictly speaking you can explore with no modules attached, not even a fuel scoop (Allitnil went to Colonia with no fuel scoop). Mengy simply listed the most useful and popular modules used in long or short term exploration.

4º If you don't care about ED, you don't need ED. Now, SRVs provide you with mats which refill the AFMU and allow you to create FSD injections in case you get stuck somewhere.

5º Your last sentence is just wrong. Explorers do turn it off (or at least I do) but in SC. Why would they bring shields if they weren't gonna use them at all?

6º Colonia isn't a trip you'd consider year long and the usage of neutron stars or the ocasional misfortune of finding yourself between two large stars thanks to the spawn point will grind down your ship, besides, the more you travel, the more you want to get distracted so I sometimes hop to the internet while jumping which causes some accidents from time to time.

One is a subset of the other but they aren't the same set.

In short, all ships can explore but not all are explorers.

 

[pnellesen]

To make it short: we should have more dedicated exploration ships; preferably manufactured by companies other than Lakon. Gutamaya

Sold.

I love their ships, and aim to have every single Imperial Ship someday (and I've got a LONG way to go, lol.) I would love to see a Gutamaya exploration ship with the looks of the Clipper and the range of the DBX, with a sound that doesn't sound like a school bus that's on its last legs...

 

[kofeyh]

Imperial Explorer.

Frontier, it's time to bring the true meaning of the empire, and bless all with the flawless Gutamaya experience. Go awwwn. You know you want to.

 

[crushdepth]

Specialised exploration ship to me means:
* Best in class jump range by a large margin.
* Lots of small slots for exploration and endurance gear (scanners, SRVs, AFMU, aerial reconnaissance (fighter - maybe one day we can have an actual recon flyer with instruments).
* Little or no weapon hardpoints (maybe a token class 1) and a minimal shield.
* No large cargo bays (no large slots).
* Nice cockpit visibility.

Basically it should trade excellent jump range and self-sufficiency for *horrible* combat and trade efficiency.

The asp and keelback kind of fit the bill except the former is too good at combat and both are reasonable traders, plus for a specialist explorer yeah, throw stones at me, it should best the anaconda in jump range. Give me a reason to put Annie in the shed otherwise it's never going to happen.

Not on the list: Manoeuvrability. Come on next you'll want a jacuzzi filled with people and/or robots you find attractive

 

[Vasious]

What’s wrong with having more options? You don’t want anything added to the game? Variety is a good thing.

The assertion that there are no real Explorers in game

 

[Marklar_]

* Little or no weapon hardpoints (maybe a token class 1)

I think there should be at least a single class 1, just in case someone wants to mount a mining laser. Besides, it's pretty much traditional for all ships to have at least one hardpoint.

 

[Oopsie Daisy]

I think the visibility afforded by the AspX makes it the current best IMO. The visibility from the FDL is not all that great and worse in the pregnant whale, err, Anaconda. So a new ship, designed with only exploration in mind, should have great visibility for the pilot.

 

[Cmdr Aeries Hunter]

Would Loooooove a dedicated Gutamaya exploration ship

 

[Susanna]

Yup...that works. Itd be the same as a crime to even try docking when super charged...punishable by instant death of course. Perhaps while the charge is stored, it degrades the pp significantly more than using it with the normal 2% drop when using neutrons. Store it fer a month and ye lose possible a third of yer pp HP, maybe more.

Ive seen Mengy suggest this before and its a cool idea...just needs a few details filled in but its definately workable ^

Given that the power plant can't be repaired with limpets, this seems very harsh to me losing a few percentage points, ok but more than that would just Rule it out for me.