I still think we need to pick the genships as (all including the ignored ones) has shown.
Go one place, find something, then a new direction - repeat - perhaps triangulating a bit.

In all of this, there may be some leads in the text (toast) itself that needs some out of the box thinking.
Like the toast cloud be a number-station message - or something we find along the way. It's out in the open, but some of it may need decoding.
The issue I'm having with the Gen ship idea - and this is purely from my need to make Raxxla "fit in the narrative" rather that exist as a meta-puzzle is: how would the Dark Wheel toast include the Generation ships that hadn't been discovered yet?

Are we assuming here that the Dark Wheel discovered the Generations ships at some point in the past and built a complex set of crypic cues around them? If so, then their locations may not actually matter since some of them are still moving - maybe where they were when DW found them isn't where they are now, etc.

Or are we saying here that the Raxxla Codex doesn't need to make sense in-game and we should treat it as a meta-clue that doesn't need to be grounded in the game reality itself? (I don't like that idea :cry: lol)

We've also previously discussed whether the Dark Wheel actually know where Raxxla is?

If the Dark Wheel are still searching for Raxxla (as is implied in the Codex) then the Toast doesn't actually lead to Raxxla - it maybe something more like a vague hope or a sort of "this is what we've got" set of info, in which case the fact that it doesn't seem to lead anywhere and seems like it can be applied to many different things sort of make sense. The Toast may actually not have a solution.

... I suppose I'm not convinced that the Gen ships have anything to do with it just because there's some connections in some of the logs - because there's connections elsewhere (like the Formidine Rift expedition, maybe Haley, maybe Jaques, the omphalos-delphi-pleiades connections). There's actually too many things that do match parts of the Toast and parts of the Codex...

I suppose like you were saying earlier, I feel like we need something that really strongly indicates the Gen ships are involved. For example... has anyone suggested how the first line of the Toast relates to gen ships?

"To the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies! "

Really don't want to be a downer, just trying to ground this in solid research :)
 
Tau Ceti is a very interesting lead in this, I got the same gut feel. So much in the Codex wants us to look in that direction.

Yeah, but are we jumping to conclusions a bit too quickly here? Following the leads from the codex to the gen ships is a healthy idea though.


Ah, nope, I'm staying away from this non-cannon leads now hehe. The whole idea 'how far could we travel in the past/what kind of drive limited us' is something they may have changed due to new teams, new producers, new designers over time.

Exactamundo, good point.

I still think we need to pick the genships as (all including the ignored ones) has shown.
Go one place, find something, then a new direction - repeat - perhaps triangulating a bit.

In all of this, there may be some leads in the text (toast) itself that needs some out of the box thinking.
Like the toast cloud be a number-station message - or something we find along the way. It's out in the open, but some of it may need decoding.
Yep, I think gen ships might be my focus for a while too. Problem is that takes me away from my next major long range exploration trip for who knows how long. I do keep forgetting about my Alt. Need to get that account dusted off so I can do both again. I think I picked up odyssey for it in the recent sale, so I should be good.
 
@John [Panzertard] Stoutbeard

I don’t wish to discuss my fantasies 😉
I have already been warned about making a mild joke......


But the last 1400 pages haven’t been fantasy. There have been a lot of interesting hypotheses raised and tested. The fact that we havent discovered anything just reflects on the quality of clues we have been basing those hypotheses on! 🧐

(Edit: of course, from FD’s perspective that means they were very good clues as they’ve kept us guessing and searching for a loooong time!)

Now, where is my deerstalker and pipe...

Both my accounts are a loooong way from Charick’s Drift!!
 
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Ah, nope, I'm staying away from this non-cannon leads now hehe. The whole idea 'how far could we travel in the past/what kind of drive limited us' is something they may have changed due to new teams, new producers, new designers over time.
Fair point. But I want to point out that a lot of the speculation here is that Raxxla is the same (or in the same place) as it's always been since it was put in the game. Therefore we get into the debate about whether Raxxla is the same as it was (same location) or moved based on the needs of the game and developing narrative.

Pick your team!

a) If it's the same as it always was, then all clues/hints/info from the early days of the game are still just as valid, since the thinking behind them is the same as the thinking that went into where to place Raxxla - and we know that was Micheal Brooks and David Braben from historical sources.

b) If Raxxla has been moved or the discovery process has been changed due to, as you say, new prople getting involved then we need to define a point at which previous clues are invalid - so Gen ships, Rift, etc. maybe all should be discounted? Anything pre Codex maybe? Where's that line? Do we discount all things prior to December 3304 as valid, or only some of them? That starts getting complicated very quickly!



I also don't want to open a can of worms about how "the more people that know where Raxxla is (devs, programmers, etc) the more chance of leaks or accidental reveals there is". The probability remains strong that Raxxla is relatively stable and innocuous and immune to game updtates (like it's just a planet or a space station using existing asssets, for example). If it were anything more complex then it would require cumulatively hundreds of devs and dev hours over the last 8 years every time the game is updated to check it's still working - etc.etc.etc. Rabbit hole...... 🥕....
 
@John [Panzertard] Stoutbeard

I don’t wish to discuss my fantasies 😉
I have already been warned about making a mild joke......


But the last 1400 pages haven’t been fantasy. There have been a lot of interesting hypotheses raised and tested. The fact that we havent discovered anything just reflects on the quality of clues we have been basing those hypotheses on! 🧐

Now, where is my deerstalker and pipe...
:ROFLMAO: Ahh man
As I said, just kidding, was trying to lighten the mood.
Absolutely agree with you, it's sound speculation.

The issue I'm having with the Gen ship idea - and this is purely from my need to make Raxxla "fit in the narrative" rather that exist as a meta-puzzle is: how would the Dark Wheel toast include the Generation ships that hadn't been discovered yet?

Are we assuming here that the Dark Wheel discovered the Generations ships at some point in the past and built a complex set of crypic cues around them? If so, then their locations may not actually matter since some of them are still moving - maybe where they were when DW found them isn't where they are now, etc.

Or are we saying here that the Raxxla Codex doesn't need to make sense in-game and we should treat it as a meta-clue that doesn't need to be grounded in the game reality itself? (I don't like that idea :cry: lol)

We've also previously discussed whether the Dark Wheel actually know where Raxxla is?

If the Dark Wheel are still searching for Raxxla (as is implied in the Codex) then the Toast doesn't actually lead to Raxxla - it maybe something more like a vague hope or a sort of "this is what we've got" set of info, in which case the fact that it doesn't seem to lead anywhere and seems like it can be applied to many different things sort of make sense. The Toast may actually not have a solution.

... I suppose I'm not convinced that the Gen ships have anything to do with it just because there's some connections in some of the logs - because there's connections elsewhere (like the Formidine Rift expedition, maybe Haley, maybe Jaques, the omphalos-delphi-pleiades connections). There's actually too many things that do match parts of the Toast and parts of the Codex...

I suppose like you were saying earlier, I feel like we need something that really strongly indicates the Gen ships are involved. For example... has anyone suggested how the first line of the Toast relates to gen ships?

"To the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies! "

Really don't want to be a downer, just trying to ground this in solid research :)
It's a good point.
The codex was introduced with the Beyond release Oct/Nov 2018 (after the genships?), including the Raxxla entry. We don't know if the Toast was written before this time or not, or even if it leads to Raxxle or something else.
Common sense would say they didn't know about the Genships. I tend to agree with you there. But ...

But we can assume both PF and TDW are made of shade people to some degree.
These shady people (as per multiple narratives) could have known about these ships.
Although it is a bit problematic to know for sure, as producers/designers/authors have been replaced through the narrative of Raxxla.

.. (I see people reply while I type, so I'll stop mine here and catch up) ...
 
I find it curious that, given all of the names of all of the Generation Ships, the two that I seem to think fit the 3rd line of the toast have the names Pleione and Atlas.
I wonder if the Pleiades fits into the other lines but either way, I think it worth another visit (in a ship that can outrun the bugs). I am not a fan of long supercruise journeys but maybe that is what is needed...

Louis Calvert: I agree about the doubts as to whether The Dark Wheel ever found Raxxla and whether they knew about Generation Ships that the playerbase had yet to discover.
I feel it might be worth pointing out that The Dark Wheel toast might itself not have existed prior to its inclusion in the Codex! The toast, the Codex and a number of other features (like the FSS) were all dropped into the game at once, however I recall that the player discovery of the Generation Ships was sporadic, as if they were added into the game in groups rather than all at once.

I also need to be wary as to what the toast might be leading us to. The Codex also mentions a Dark Wheel station, so it seems odd that The Dark Wheel would give us clues to Raxxla itself without having brought us to meet them first!
 
I find it curious that, given all of the names of all of the Generation Ships, the two that I seem to think fit the 3rd line of the toast have the names Pleione and Atlas.
I wonder if the Pleiades fits into the other lines but either way, I think it worth another visit (in a ship that can outrun the bugs). I am not a fan of long supercruise journeys but maybe that is what is needed...
See, these are the ideas we can 'play around with a bit', to see if it fits even better. To see if we can find a way to 'introduce results in the game'.
.. my head just exploded now - I have too much info again, ... <curses all 1419 pages> ... time to ponder.
 
I find it curious that, given all of the names of all of the Generation Ships, the two that I seem to think fit the 3rd line of the toast have the names Pleione and Atlas.
I wonder if the Pleiades fits into the other lines but either way, I think it worth another visit (in a ship that can outrun the bugs). I am not a fan of long supercruise journeys but maybe that is what is needed...
I don't know if you saw my post a while back on my "cold read" of the Codex using only simple knowledge and top-level reading. I basically ended up at Delphi and connected it the the Thargoids. Quite a few other people over the years have come to the same conclusions too. Delphi being renamed on the same day the Codex dropped is... suggestive... and containing the station named "The Oracle".... etc.etc.

If interpretations of the Toast relating to the Formidine Rift (plagued with Thargoid-like interactions) and Jaques comment about the UA's singing in hyperspace (sirens). The fact that a lot of the Raxxla Codex seems to lean towards Greek Myth, and a lot relating to the Thargoids leans that way too... it all seems to come together.
 
I don't know if you saw my post a while back on my "cold read" of the Codex using only simple knowledge and top-level reading. I basically ended up at Delphi and connected it the the Thargoids. Quite a few other people over the years have come to the same conclusions too. Delphi being renamed on the same day the Codex dropped is... suggestive... and containing the station named "The Oracle".... etc.etc.
Didn't know about your post, but I do know that "loop", been through the same issues as you - could not get further.
Personally I reject a bit of the "hearsay" such as the Omphalos Rift (I fear a red herring) for now, unless something else makes it snap into place.
But I'm not here to convince you to change your mind (bad idea) - keep your mind open, play with all alternatives and new ground you find.

If interpretations of the Toast relating to the Formidine Rift (plagued with Thargoid-like interactions) and Jaques comment about the UA's singing in hyperspace (sirens). The fact that a lot of the Raxxla Codex seems to lean towards Greek Myth, and a lot relating to the Thargoids leans that way too... it all seems to come together.
Also a quite open ended idea. At least in with a "back to basics" I would try to make it fit with the Toast (whatever it could lead us to).
Anything else in the Codex may or may not be true - only when I see supporting facts (actual things in game) that supports those other paragraphs I may use them.

"fernweh" works with the idea of Vagabonds and many of the ships being sent out in the galaxy, one direction or for other purposes.
Which ships, which direction - well let's keep pondering and testing things ingame to see if it sticks.

I was thinking putting together a "basic list of initiatives" so we could sort of those 'most promising ideas'.
... But first other tasks like getting some materials for the AX wpns ... grrriiind ...
 
Mm, hadnt spotted the reference to the Pleiades in those gen ship names. A hint that we should reinvestigate the Pleiades perhaps?
Those darned UAs have to be pointing at Merope 5c (IIRC) for some reason!
I do remember searching Merope and 5c in particular looking for an antenna sticking out of the “ground” if it was n alien mothership submerged in eons of galactic dustfall....
 
Ah, darn yeah, forgot about that. 5c, for so long, for so many years. But didn't they point to Barnacles in some cases?
Well, there were barnacle sites on 5c. In fact, they were the first discovered because so many cmdrs were searching there.

I think, for such a long time we have mostly assumed that was the reason for the UAs pointing there... and it probably is still the case. Why that particular one, I suppose there could be somthing more specific, but I don't think we know that for certain.
 
Ah, darn yeah, forgot about that. 5c, for so long, for so many years. But didn't they point to Barnacles in some cases?
Well, there were barnacle sites on 5c. In fact, they were the first discovered because so many cmdrs were searching there.

I think, for such a long time we have mostly assumed that was the reason for the UAs pointing there... and it probably is still the case. Why that particular one, I suppose there could be somthing more specific, but I don't think we know that for certain.
I may vaguely remember, or I may be dreaming it, that MB (I think) intimated UA were pointing there to highlight Barnacles. Seems a very poor hint if so as they dont point to any other barnacle location as far as I know.
 
This afternoon I switched to my Imperial Courier (and needed it as I did get jumped by the bugs - leaving 98K Tauri, so I lost the neutron boost...) and made my way from Pleione to Atlas in supercruise. This is 0.70 LY, so it seems a good place to have something, but at 2001c I could easily have flown right by it in a blink without noticing. I'll try the run from Atlas to Pleione when I am next on. (The journey is several hours and I had to shut down what modules I could so that I did not run out of fuel)

One thing I did notice on the way out here is that the hyperspace tunnel is different (within Pleiades Sector or when jumping to a star in that region). It is as if you can see the nebulosity and stars of the Pleiades even within the tunnel. That behaviour does not happen near any other nebula that I can remember visiting (and I have been to a few). So that is something else telling me that the Pleiades are important, though it need not be related to Raxxla.
 
Been pondering the generation ships hypothesis and checked mythology and other references for each plus wiki description.

Summary:
TDW toast-> vagabonds->wanderers!

Lycaon
Location- Alaunus
King of Arcadia who tried to feed Zeus human flesh (Lycaon's own son Nyctimus) & was turned into a wolf.

Gen ship passengers were all wiped out by a contagious alien microorganism

Venusian
Location- Kitae
Dr Who reference? Two races Venusians and Thraskin/Cytherians
Dan Dare’s enemy Mekon was venusian
Dalek war against human Venusian colonists

Gen ship was attacked and boarded by a pirate fleet seeking to capture the passengers as slaves.

Hyperion
Location- Lalande 2966
A 1989 science fiction novel
Greek Titan (12 children of Gaia and Uranus. The “god above”, along with his son Helios, was a personification of the sun

Gen ship passengers began to worship a child named Zachariah as a messiah who would lead them to the "promised land", but opened all of the ship's airlocks.

Odysseus
Location- Ross 859
The original “vagabond” of Homerian legend

Gen ship passengers elected a governing council that decided to alter the generation ship's mission. Suffered a deadly disease outbreak.


Thetis
Location- Nefertem
Greek sea nymph, mother of Achilles. Saved Zeus by summoning the giant monster of 100 arms (Briareus aka Aegaeon) when 3 Olympians (Hera, Poseidon, Pallas Athena) plotted to overthrow him.

Whispering sounds, a digital signal picked up by the Gen ship's comms array, which drove passengers homicidally insane


Pleione
Location- Hez Ur
a small genus of predominantly terrestrial but sometimes epiphytic or lithophytic, miniature orchids.
Greek Oceanid nymph & Mother of the 7 Pleiades (Maia, Electra, Taygete, Alcyone, Celaeno, Sterope, Merope). Also often said to be the mother of the nymph Calypso (meaning "to cover", "to conceal", or "to hide” & who detained Odysseus for 7 years on island Ogygia) & father was Titan Atlas.

Gen ship passengers began to give birth to only male children...


Atlas
Location- Charick Drift
Greek Titan condemned to hold up the heavens or sky for eternity. One version of myth has King Atlas refuse hospitality to Perseus who later kills the Medusa, turns Atlas to stone in retribution and then goes on to rescue Princess Andromeda (father King Cepheus Mother Queen Cassiopeia) from the sea serpent Cetus -parent’s grief & lover’s woe?

Gen ship was unable to brake, so course was altered and all the passengers and vital equipment launched in escape pods at the target world as the ship flew by it. The fault was found by chief engineer Tom Edwards, who volunteered to stay behind to operate the pod controls. One pod launched prematurely and exploded. Edwards’ wife Jean was pregnant. Ship continued traveling for an unknown amount of time before finally running out fuel and coming to rest at its present location

Lazarus Expedition
Location- Virudnir
Lazarus of Bethany was a biblical figure raised from the dead by Jesus. Also also the name given to the beggar in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. A mythical man who taunted Jesus on the way to crucifixion and was cursed to wander the Earth until the second coming.

Gen ship became stranded in space after a cooling system suffered a catastrophic failure & irreparably damaged the propulsion system. Ship dismantled & converted into life boats, but population had expanded beyond the life boats’ capacity, so priority given to women and children while volunteers stayed behind. The life boats were successfully launched to multiple habitable worlds within range.

Artemis
Location- Mu Cassiopeia
Greek goddess of the hunt & wilderness

Gen ship's crew and passengers were all murdered by a single serial killer (who likened himself to a wolf culling sheep) over time. The murderer finally damaged the ship's reactor, which likely killed everyone on board.

Achlys
Location- HIP 114458
Greek personified spirit of the death-mist, the clouding of the eyes preceding death; one of the figures depicted on Heracles' shield, perhaps representing sorrow.

Gen ship’s life support system suffered a catastrophic malfunction, killing all crew and passengers. Autopilot assumed control of the Achlys and ensured it kept to its default course. On arrival autopilot could detect no passengers & activated emergency protocols to develop into an AI with 92% human intellectual capacity but had no other option than to take up orbit around the planet that would have been colonised.

Given warnings about human rogue AI this may be obfuscation! Presumably it was the AI telling the tale...😉

Phobos
Location- Coelachi
Greek god of fear and panic, brother of Deimos (terror).

Gen ship safely reached its (unstated) target world and established 15 settlements, but indigenous flora and fauna were toxic and highly aggressive. The settlements were destroyed and survivors retreated to the ship but were also killed. Phobos reached its present position after its fuel ran out or its systems shut down.

Phanes
Location- Cephei Sector NX-U b2-0
The Greek first-born deity who came from the silver egg of the universe created by Chronos (Time).

Gen ship reached its target world but the planet was found to be uninhabitable. Ship's command decided to search for another planet but that sparked an uprising as the colonists wanted to return to Sol. Command fabricated reports that an unknown cataclysm had wiped out human civilisation, a lie which was eventually exposed & sparked another uprising. The conflict likely resulted in the deaths of all of the ship's crew and passengers.

Demeter
Location- Mizuchi
Greek goddess of agriculture and harvest. Sister of Zeus and mother of Persephone who was abducted by Hades & taken to the Underworld.

Gen ship launched with a population of 3,000. But in year 5 several vital systems abruptly failed. By year 187 the population had regressed into four warring tribes...

Epimetheus
Location- HR 2351
Greek Titan (name means afterthought) twin brother of Prometheus (foresight).

Gen ship was mysteriously evacuated with siren sounding. Sole survivor was a detainee who became insane

Spear of Hope
Location- HIP 21654
Possibly the Spear of Cassius from the film Rebuild of Evangelion?

Gen ship launched without a set destination, instead depended on long-range "Pathfinder probes" to identify prospective colonization targets. Technician Farrow departed alone in a shuttle on a year-long journey to repair a malfunctioning probe. Upon her return the entire ship was deserted. Logs reported an emergency evacuation eight months previously, when a viable planet had been identified which the ship was going to bypass. Farrow decided to try altering the Spear of Hope's course to slingshot around a nearby star in order to return to the planet. It is unknown if Farrow's plan succeeded

Golconda
Location- discovered from a distress signal in Upaniklis.
A historic fortress and ruined city in India. Also means a rich mine

Gen ship found both functional and with a living crew and colonists. Ship safely arrived at its intended destination, but the passengers elected to remain aboard and continue journeying through space indefinitely due to concerns about living outside the vessel. As time went on, the colonists developed a unique culture and religion centered on a reverence for The Golconda as a kind of benevolent caretaker. They also maintained a policy of strict isolationism for their own protection. Passing through Upaniklis in 34Cent with supplies running low and struck by an outbreak of nasopharyngitis Captain Jonathon Forester sent out a distress call. The vessel's population chose to migrate to a new orbital outpost built for them in Upaniklis named Forester's Choice. But In 3308, the Golconda was repaired by the Artificers Dredger Clan and fitted with a hyperdrive. It left Upaniklis with most of the Forester's Choice colonists on June 17, 3308 and started a new journey.

I think we can safely ignore the Golconda, it is too recent to be relevant, but a couple of themes strike me:

Wanderer/vagabond/homeless: Spear of Hope (Technician Farrow is homeless), Lazarus, Phanes (possibly), Phobos, Pleione (link to Odysseus via Calypso), Odysseus

Wolf/cannibalism: Artemis, Lycaon

Grief/woe: Lazarus, Atlas

Whispers: Thetis

So, there are several possible route variations if the puzzle is to fly between the various generation ships equating to the lines of the Alleged Toast!
 
I don't know if you saw my post a while back on my "cold read" of the Codex using only simple knowledge and top-level reading. I basically ended up at Delphi and connected it the the Thargoids. Quite a few other people over the years have come to the same conclusions too. Delphi being renamed on the same day the Codex dropped is... suggestive... and containing the station named "The Oracle".... etc.etc.

If interpretations of the Toast relating to the Formidine Rift (plagued with Thargoid-like interactions) and Jaques comment about the UA's singing in hyperspace (sirens). The fact that a lot of the Raxxla Codex seems to lean towards Greek Myth, and a lot relating to the Thargoids leans that way too... it all seems to come together.
Had time to read through your 'cold read' of the Codex and it is interesting. I particularly like the Omphalos stone being a gateway and that the Delphi system is a beginning, with the Omphalos stone being positioned beneath the Oracle. The Thargoid Site certainly bears greater inspection.

I am trying in my head to get around Tau Ceti being a starting place and Delphi being a starting place. Why do we have to travel to multiple locations? It is almost as if we have to travel a certain route, hitting key waypoints, maybe even performing key activities, before we can make a final jump from Delphi. A route as a password.

Nine worlds connected to the World Tree. Nine waypoints? Maybe Pleione and Atlas are two and The Dark Wheel toast is giving us clues to more. After visiting them, light up the Thargoid Structure. A rift may then open - or perhaps then making a hyperspace jump to a final destination. Activating a Thargoid Structure does give you a message, so perhaps that will contain the information?
 
Question for you all.

What do you make of the alteration to the Codex from 2018?

I've been trying to find a screenshot to post this question with evidence, but I can only find references to it, and references to it being changed.

1670707464881.png

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/hlrs8i/i_think_fdev_messed_up_the_raxxla_hunt/

Yelboc replied here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-7782098 but then no-one else took notice it seems.


I've seen this same reference in a few places - I don't suppose anyone has a screenshot of the Codex before it was changed?

Do you think it was changed:

a) because it was an accidental coincidence and Fdev realised it would be misleading, so they changed it
b) Fdev thought it might actually be too big a clue and removed it?



Seperate, but to avoid making a 2nd post. Going back mining this thread for great and forgotten/overlooked ideas :)


"Original text in Russian, if you need: Краткое изложение мифов, окружающих легендарную планету RAXXLA
Translation of the circled: Summary of the myths surrounding the legendary planet RAXXLA))It says right there, the PLANET.
Does the English version also say about the planet?"

So... not sure if this is confirmation, but I'm pretty convinced this is one of those things where we should bump up the probability that we're looking for a planet (given all the other stuff we know too, planet is incredibly likely).
 
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