Cool, I've also wondered if the ship noises might actually be important too, so interesting to see what results you get thereThat would explain it... however think I need to do some more tests on internal ship noises.... not 100% sure it's the same timing when I am pointing at different parts of space..... and why the chirping in a DBX.... not exactly the ship creaking and banging that I usually hear with the sound down a lot more....
Lots of really cool ideas here. You've highlighted some things I hadn't really thought of before. The Sirius links are interesting.Similarly I thought I would try and deconstruct the codex without falling down too many rabbit holes. As you can see there was a lot to unpack
Legend - specifically showing this part is not a myth. Also used in TDW codex referring to their existence.
in circulation in whispers - the imperfect transmission of information across multiple iterations. Like the game of Telephone / Broken Telephone / Chinese Whispers.
for centuries - the idea has remained strong despite its ethereal nature. TDW codex reflects this.
The quest for Raxxla - organised search mission
Location is a deadly secret - This is stated as though it is fact, and is ambiguous to what makes it dangerous. So any 'dangerous' locations could help filter a search. Is the location itself deadly? or the act of searching makes you a target? Is there a high-risk pathway to access Raxxla making it deadly to pilots who don't know the correct procedure? It is also stated distinctly separate to TDW.
Principal aim - if seeking it is their aim, then they have not yet discovered it.
Putative - word meaning a generalised assumption amongst society - this means they may not exist, or at least not in the Illuminati-esque form we might assume it to be. It is interesting to note that the original Bavarian Illuminati's stated goals were "to oppose superstition, obscurantism, religious influence over public life, and abuses of state power." Basically to prevent society from imploding by discreetly manipulating its levers. I would imagine these benevolent secret societies probably fall apart because they are trapped in the paradox of their innate goals requiring them to recruit new members, but at the same time remain secret, and also somehow hold themselves to common principles, whilst the entire time wielding immeasurable power with the temptation to brag about it.
Fraternity - group sharing a common interest - notably using the masculine latin 'frater' for "brother/brotherhood". Why masculine?
Legend-chasers - this reinforces the above 'principal aim' premise, they likely do not have possession of Raxxla. If true, this is an avenue of investigation to search for TDW station first, because it will likely contain the clue that spawned the secret society in the first place. As the DW codex states, you can allegedly "examine the record and artefacts preserved there". What's the point of examining artefacts and records if they supposedly have possession of the Omphalos Rift itself.
Early days of interstellar travel - this pins it to the 22nd Century onward - this could mean an early explorer found something that pointed them to Raxxla (but was not Raxxla itself), and thus TDW was formed to search for it. Private corporate interests dominated exploration in this era and coincidentally the hyperdrive was also invented during this time by Li Qin Jao.
Side note: Li Qingzhao was a famous 11th Century Chinese poet. (The 'zh' in mandarin is a 'juh' sound - so a potential parralel exists with 'Jao'.) Two impact craters on Mercury and Venus are named after her - worth taking a look at?
Li Yong-Rui is part of the Li dynasty (surnames are addressed first in Chinese culture). So is the dynasty derived from the success of Li Qin Jao's invention??? How Qin Jao came to that discovery is unknown - perhaps benefiting from an certain alien artifact discovered by corporate pioneer explorers?
Yong = Mandarin for 'forever', Rui = sharp/acute/keen - Forever Keen -> Fernweh? -> Future sight? Li is also quoted in the Knowledge Base codex with his thesis on behavioural predictability - "Becoming the Watchmaker". I believe there may be a big clue here.
Earliest record is in a journal of a shipboard mechanic in Tau Ceti - This puts it in common circulation early in the 23rd century. How did this "secret" become circulated? Perhaps through the disintegration of TDW? or society members leaking info?
Side Note: The location of Tau Ceti is obvious due to the early period of exploration, but the date 2296 is far beyond John Taylor's separatist actions in the colony. Aside from an obvious Pink Floyd association, John Taylor is a British inventor and horologist known for his Corpus Clock in Cambridge which he called the Chronophage or "time eater". It has an inscription "the world passeth away, and the lust thereof".
Here is John Taylor explaining its beautifully haunting mechanics. Notice the 6-armed central reinforcement structure, and the method of using vernier slits to reveal the passage of time - I'm reminded of the landscape signal segments with each shape revealed like it was emitted through an opening.
Super-duper side note: Thargoids can be broken into Thar - old version of 'there' ie. far away, and Goid - an Irish/Gaelic term for 'steal'. So one could construe "Distant/Beyond Thief", or perhaps more ominously - "Future-Stealers". Maybe this is a link to their behaviour of stealing human stasis pods.
Soused / drunk - as I understand it the first GalNet news event reports the Federation banning the proliferation of celebratory liquor. Just an innocent health and safety message by the PF? or was there a link to something in game related to alcohol?
"Map to a pirate stash" - could this be implying there is a secret stash linked to pirate/rebellious groups?? Could it contain a clue? Another avenue is to scan through instances of pirate activity for unusual cargo or 'odd' pirate activity.
Again with GalNet, the early news articles are about Eranin civil war, Eranin Defence Force, and piracy in LP98-132, as well as lots of mentions of Fish - "380 cargo canisters of Fish were detected floating in deep space. Authorities speculate that pirates ejected them to make room for more valuable cargo." It's a loose connection, but bears resemblence to Homer's Odyssey repeatedly referring to the "fishy sea".
"While we're at it" - so the same act of using the 'map to some pirate stash' is to find Raxxla, thus it could be implying the 'clue' element is needed for a successful discovery of Raxxla.
It is clear from the text that the myth was already in circulation - here the framing has changed from legend to myth. Myth involves timelessness, and has no objective proof in history or reality. Whereas Legends are stories based on historic events and can be placed within a timeline. So after the journal of Art, the parts of the codex entry referring to myth may be read as a timeless framework of ideas and meaning, not connected to the game's timeline or characters.
Extremely difficult finding consistency among fragmentary rumours - if the fragments are inconsistent, it could mean the 'signal to noise ratio' is poor, thus people take what little information they had in the wrong directions - see the above point about whispers - Telephone / Chinese Whispers. Perhaps the author is saying to find a position of clarity to reduce the interfering 'noise' - either with a literal signal source, or some other lore instances.
Ancient myths - within the same sentence, these myths are related to the interpretation of stories about Atlantis etc, so it could be telling us to avoid getting too outlandish and search for explanations constructed with the smallest possible set of elements (Occam's Razor).
Unremarkable moon, or state of cosmic enlightenment - here the writer could be giving examples of these outlandish theories.
"Unremarkable moon" saying that it is unlikely to be anti-climactic and banal.
"State of cosmic enlightenment" is trying to rule out the idea of a symbolic end point, like a message in the game with no tangible outcome.
I guess that rules out Braben's floating head in space then
Points of agreement - here is the meat on the bone!
It is a definite place - it exists as a location in the game.
It holds a mystical secret - either 'holds within', or 'holds onto' a secret that has a 'spiritual or magical significance that transcends human understanding'.
This part has an auspicious relationship with Milton's pendent world fast by a golden chain.
Alien artifact - a sentient lifeform created it. Non-human. A higher form of technology?
the Omphalos Rift as a [central] tunnel or gateway resembling the fictional children's story - just like what was discussed here earlier, this seems like the author is talking about allegory. It could be telling us we need to look to a story that is an interpretation or tribute to an older version for an element in it that symbolises a passage / gateway / tunnel.
Concealed facts - here it mentions "in his book", so specifically a male author.
Eyes to see - something that can reveal the secret - either a code, cypher, lens, pattern, whatever.
It could also refer to a mystical seer? Li Yong-Rui certainly claims to have this talent!
Could the children's story be connected to Li Qin Jao or the Li Dynasty?? Was this children's tale a coded message for the early Dark Wheel acolytes?
Students note the legend exerts a strangely potent fascination on the minds of seekers - Here again the author is pointing to legend, not myth. Something associated with a point in time. What instances are there of people's minds affected? We've certainly seen some instances already with visions, lights and drawing people to seek them out.
Fernweh - a tormented/pained yearning, contrasted to wanderlust which describes a more joyful yearning. It could infer a feeling of being trapped/shackled down by present needs preventing you from going.
a place one has never seen - this could mean a location, but consider the aspect of time as well. The future is unseen. It specifically uses the word "seen" not "been". Yes that is stretching the meaning, but still a specific use of the word. It could describe a place that doesn't exist at all - like Atlantis, or Heaven, but as I theorized earlier the author has ruled that out already. Or the place is invisible or heavily concealed and can only be seen when we have the correct access to it.
futile search - what made it futile? the author may be saying it's pointless to aimlessly search. Again it likely means the place must be revealed by a trigger event or accessed via a gated task - makes me think of a Turing Test. Maybe it's an alien CAPTCHA check
Conspiracy theories - Conspiracies can be used as a method of social engineering or manipulation. Seeding uncertainty about "this" or "that" to create mistrust of people or groups. Perhaps it is a method to slowly undermine the Federation's ubiquitous power - the earliest accounts of the legend started around the time of the Federation's emergence. The Dark Wheel codex also backs up the mistrust theme by mentioning Lyta Crane, a so-called 'people's journalist'.
Some kind of sinister cabal (or sole tyrant) - There are two GalNet articles in sequence on 23 NOV 3304 and 30 NOV 3304, which mention Li Yong-Rui's private fleet having a "cabal of junior officers" launching the incursion into Meene - which was basically a veiled attempt by Li to grab Ram Tah's research. Li tries to discredit the officers and 'arrests' them even though the mercs claim they were commissioned by the officers. Sirius has certainly leveraged power to insert itself into political and humanitarian situations and the fact that the codex calls out a "(sole tyrant)" in parentheses like that is as though the codex author is winking at us.
I refer back to Yong-Rui's codex quote:
- Fortune teller rattling bones in her hut - a witch / seer, also a person who makes money from manipulating people's emotions.
- Smiling insurance salesman with snakeskin briefcase - insurance is a buffer against future catastrophy, and the smiling+snakeskin symbolism implies malicious manipulation.
- Data analyst with a holo model - Reading and modelling future events, but also someone who may be feigning technical skill with shiny gadgets with the intent to steer the decisions of people with power and influence.
- The paradox of craving freedom, but seeking reassurance of safety - this sounds a bit like Fernweh. Yearning for freedom, but trapped in fear of uncertainty and danger.
If Raxxla existed as a legend during the early centuries of human stellar civilisation, it means someone found something to spark its existence in everyday conversation. So I'm becoming more convinced now that Raxxla has never been found and that the Dark Wheel only have/had a marginal advantage by possessing at most a few artifacts that they could study and derive advanced technology from to gain special economic advantages and power, but could never find or access Raxxla itself.
The parallels to Li Yong-Rui can probably be applied to the Federation's shady actions as well. However, the connections of 'legends' to the early period of hyperspace travel, and the long influence of the Li dynasty in association with ship technologies, seems to position Sirius as being the likely vector of discovery. This does not mean the corporation is constantly dropping hints. It's more like a starting point where we could search for hidden skeletonsAdditionally the keys to the door could be hidden in plain sight, like the fact we are using their drive technology to access the galaxy. Or the composition of FSD materials are somehow linked to a clue to find The Dark Wheel station - my theorized home of frame shift technology.
Gan Romero is an unknown factor at the moment, although he was a starship technician which does parallel Art Tornqvist.
Not really sure what you mean by unknown factor
(like Seo Jin-ae zooming around visiting people, the entire political stuff about the Empire succession, the Feds elections, to name but a recent few).No-where does it actually say that Halsey was visited by post-Guardians or was looking for them, nor does it say that she definitely saw living Guardians at all, and the idea that she'd seen the past was 'speculation'. Now yes, it's possible to read it as "Halsey's story was about finding Guardians", but whoever wrote the Codex has been super careful not to actually say that.
And then later (after she'd gone into psychiatric care, and then apparently had more visions(?), worked as a peace activist, defected to the Alliance, then after a while simply stopped mentioning her visions and settled down to a more normal political career:
but I also don't think this idea is actually that far-fetched on the scale of some ideas presented in this hallowed thread!).Many of these examples of instances of a mystical visions or even possibly abductions? in my opinion might share a similarity to those linked to various myths associated with The Tuatha Dé Danann.Not really sure what you mean by unknown factor
Galnet explicitly linked Gan's visions with Halsey, it might be a red herring, but as we've said before, if there are red herrings then we're totally screwed, so let's assume there's not, and consider the lore-as-written details:
I don't think it matters whether he was found, I think the narrative was supposed to be "look; people have visions of this place, more than one person".
FYI: Gan's story had already ended, it wasn't stopped. Fdev's announcement about the ending of off-camera narratives was more about the team writing them being re-tasked to Odyssey. It's also totally clear that off-camera narratives have been back for ages too
Halsey is an interesting one because if you go back and read all her Galnet stuff, she had some very specific things to say, and it seems like the Guardian sites were found accidentally*; they certainly weren't what she was looking for!
The Codex itself actually says:
No-where does it actually say that Halsey was visited by post-Guardians or was looking for them, nor does it say that she definitely saw living Guardians at all, and the idea that she'd seen the past was 'speculation'. Now yes, it's possible to read it as "Halsey's story was about finding Guardians", but whoever wrote the Codex has been super careful not to actually say that.
Actually, if you compare the Galnet articles with the Guardian Codedx, no-where in the articles do they mention "mysterious alien worlds and cities", which is what the codex says. It's a very strange thing.
In fact, every part of Halsey's vision statements are framed more like a religious conversion than a search for alien worlds. She also explicitly mentions a place. Not "alien worlds and cities". She specifically mentions super-intelligent beings many times, and that's actually her goal, finding those beings... like... the Sirens of Raxxla, maybe.
Yes, the Guardians were found because Halsey called for a generalised mass exploration and (presumably) the data was supposed to reveal the Guardian sites - although Galnet at the time explicitly states the exact opposite:
And then later (after she'd gone into psychiatric care, and then apparently had more visions(?), worked as a peace activist, defected to the Alliance, then after a while simply stopped mentioning her visions and settled down to a more normal political career:
So, despite apparently actually finding the Guardian ruins due to Halsey's urge to explore (her fernweh...), they clearly weren't what she was looking for. Whether she really doesn't remember, or whether she's simply realised if she keeps talking about it she'll lose her career and everything else, who knows. It's also entirely possible (probable) that the sirens/caretakers/architects of creation are post-Guardian beings (probably the Constructs), which is why Halsey has been linked to the Guardians.
I honestly feel like maybe we've misinterpreted Halsey's story for ages. I think Gan's story was (if anything) intended to reinforce this narrative and tie into the Codex - for those with eyes to see, so to speak
This narrative is essentially: Something mystical (probably related to god-level alien beings) is calling people to a specific location that seems to present as 'heaven' or 'paradise' and is very appealing to humans. This place is known as Raxxla (probably other things too), and is described and expressed in many different ways because it's filtered through different people's experiences - but they're all seeing the same place. This location is hard to reach, and for whatever reason the god-beings can't actually be more precise about it. It's likely to be a rip in reality, or a Clarke-tech artefact.
I suspect these beings exist outside the material universe (in witch-space), and therefore can do nothing more than nudge/guide people towards Raxxla, which manifests in people as dreams/visions/hearing voices, etc.
I believe this is represented in game by the Landscape Signal (which I think is more accurately called the Siren Song). I think the 'path to Raxxla' that we've all been searching for is intrinsically linked with 'mystical' lore of the game, and Halsey/Gan/FR crew/etc. are probably only the most obvious expressions of it.
Obviously could be wrong, and honestly am likely to be
*(I'm aware of all the stuff about players star-matching from the trailer, etc, that's not what I mean
According to Our creating story, The Ever Living Ones (which like other religions needs to be taken with a small pinch of salt) the Tuatha De Danaan are the decedents of the Children of Danu created by The Dagda and Brigid under the great oak Bile.
Yes exactly - it’s a fascinating history rich in context.
Interesting. There is an odd URL error there. The link takes you to the 25 May article I mentioned, but the URL title states the 24 May.Not really sure what you mean by unknown factor
Galnet explicitly linked Gan's visions with Halsey, it might be a red herring, but as we've said before, if there are red herrings then we're totally screwed, so let's assume there's not, and consider the lore-as-written details:
I don't think it matters whether he was found, I think the narrative was supposed to be "look; people have visions of this place, more than one person".
FYI: Gan's story had already ended, it wasn't stopped. Fdev's announcement about the ending of off-camera narratives was more about the team writing them being re-tasked to Odyssey. It's also totally clear that off-camera narratives have been back for ages too
Gan was linked in official lore to Halsey's vision - so if Raxxla is an "in-game component", then by Ian's logic he simply cannot be related to Raxxla. So there is a plot hole in the sense that FDev did not wrap it up by stating he was found like Halsey was, nor a capsule or body recovered. So technically from a narrative perspective he is still floating out there and it could mean the writer was telling a half-truth. Either Gan was a small narrative way to point to Raxxla and Ian confirmed there is nothing more about Gan specifically, or Gan's story was related to Guardian discoveries and has no further use.
Halsey's 3307 backflip does seem suspicious as though she had decided to dismiss her visions to bury any further inquiry. If she had a motive it would have been related to the important diplomatic work she did soon after at the Galactic Summit in Sirius. Despite Li Yong-Rui probably having a hand in all of that, I'm hesitant to make the leap that her sudden change was related to Raxxla. Before the Guardians were discovered in 3302, Halsey elaborated on her enlightened perspective:
What we know now of Guardian history has parallels with the "lesson" she was talking about here.
I am not sure how to determine what is and is not significant in spectrograms of the landscape signal but if you find that kind of detail interesting then I will share three of my recent observations:View attachment 380921
So I tried flying out quite a way from other things in Barnard's Star .88LY (I was trying something out) then I thought I wonder if the landscape signal was any different/clearer being so far out... and I don't think so
But as I was playing around with various configurations in the Spectrogram settings (as I am no expert and just play with them and see if things get clearer or completely messed up!
Anyway some of the chirps seem to have definite markings/symbols and I wondered if anyone else thinks that.... and whether they are intentional or just the pictorial representation of the chirps?
....and then I also noticed something that looked a bit weird.... faint and possible letters? (the last red boxes to the right of the screen cap)...
Most likely caught a bad case of Rochester Apophenia.... but looks like something to me....
Anyone agree... and anyone understand the spectrogram settings enough to try and see if it can be made clearer or is it just random and I'm seeing things?
Here's a rubbish larger view:
View attachment 380922
And here a colour version many times from the recording... it's consistant...
View attachment 380923
Just a thought...
EDIT: almost forgot also saw this in the spectrogram...
View attachment 380928
Yes totally, I think this is where the Miltonian references come in. All this seems very biblical to me.
If you copy the settings I used do you see the slash marks and the possible lettering?I am not sure how to determine what is and is not significant in spectrograms of the landscape signal but if you find that kind of detail interesting then I will share three of my recent observations:
The first spectrogram is one that I took earlier this week at Praesepe (thanks to Han Zen for bringing that up - I had not been there before!). This was recorded in a Dolphin with non-essential systems shut down. Note the detail in the vertical bars, resembling a punchcard.
The same features are visible in Artemis (recorded in an Asp Explorer), though not quite so clear and not identical.
Yet in Azaleach (recorded yesterday in an Imperial Courier), these vertical bars are not present.
There may be more to the landscape signal than a mountain-like structure?
I'm very sure these are all ship noises. The fact that it changes depending on the ship type shows just how much detail Fdev put into the cockpit soundsI am not sure how to determine what is and is not significant in spectrograms of the landscape signal but if you find that kind of detail interesting then I will share three of my recent observations:
The first spectrogram is one that I took earlier this week at Praesepe (thanks to Han Zen for bringing that up - I had not been there before!). This was recorded in a Dolphin with non-essential systems shut down. Note the detail in the vertical bars, resembling a punchcard.
The same features are visible in Artemis (recorded in an Asp Explorer), though not quite so clear and not identical.
Yet in Azaleach (recorded yesterday in an Imperial Courier), these vertical bars are not present.
There may be more to the landscape signal than a mountain-like structure?
I'm very sure these are all ship noises. The fact that it changes depending on the ship type shows just how much detail Fdev put into the cockpit sounds
You can test this very easily by pointing 180 degrees away from the centre of the galaxy you'll get a 'non signal' recording, then you can compare! If the bars are still present, then it's ship noise.
I'm not sure I would interpret that the same way at all. I think it simply means "finding Gan was never supposed to be the goal of that narrative".
I would agree, except for all the other evidence we have that supports the idea that the Guardains weren't what Halsey wanted to find. It's just what was found while searching for whatever Halsey was looking for. Aside from all the stuff in my post there (which I think is pretty solidly conclusive) we have the Raxxla Codex, which also supports the idea of mystical, religious aspect to Raxxla - as you pointed out, and the Toast of the Dark Wheel, which literally mentions Sirens.
And Drew Wagar explicitly stated that this is linked to Halsey.
"the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies!" = Raxxla, in the centre of the Galaxy. Because if you look at the Milky Way from anywhere near Sol you see it as a band across the sky - like a diadem spanning the sky. In the centre of a diadem (on the brow) might be a central jewel. Thus, the jewel that burns in the centre of the milky way. also, Omphalos Rift could easily be interpreted as a 'rift' at the centre of the galaxy.
Radiant like a jewel. Glowing like heaven (the centre of the galaxy is brightly lit all the time). And of course, being called by bodiless voices is literally describing the Siren song.
True, but Drew not knowing anything about Raxxla doesn't mean anything in this case.
We also don't know if he wrote the site logs at all, or if they were written by him but with guidance from Fdev, or maybe (using the NDA-level writer's material) Drew just so happened to mention the sirensong aspect and that just happens to coincide with stuff already in the lore.I sort of struggle sometimes with the Landscape signal/Sag A* being Raxxla... unless the reason no one found it was because they couldn't get there...True, but Drew not knowing anything about Raxxla doesn't mean anything in this case.
It's fully possible to write something without knowing what it means
Plus, the Raxxla codex was released years after the rift mystery - therefore it was with full knoweldge of what already existed in the game
So yeah, maybe Drew can shed more light on it, but I don't think it's necessary to ask him to do so.
No sign of them at Praesepe (Dolphin) or Azaleach (Courier) but I do see them in Artemis (AspX).
