SCA fast drop off kinda beats them all
But where’s the fun in that?
Actually the first failure is not being in Solo
O7
It’s only a failure if you don’t enjoy that kind of thing.
SCA fast drop off kinda beats them all
Actually the first failure is not being in Solo
O7
Folks enjoy being ganked?It’s only a failure if you don’t enjoy that kind of thing.
But where’s the fun in that?
A ganker is not always a ganker. It depends on the context and the game. There are no gankers in Foxhole, because it is 100% PvP. There are only cunning players who use their knowledge to disrupt enemy logistics.ive lost the plot on this post haha,gankers foxholes truck drivers what next.
Folks enjoy being ganked?
O7
In small doses, yes. It provides a different, though not necessarily more difficult, challenge to NPC opposition. Tactics that would never work on NPCs can be employed against them, and that helps to keep things interesting.
Precisely.Well... once I've said that I just play in Open because I never know what it is going to happen every time I wake.
woah man how are you?Well...
Yeah.
Was going to ask the same...woah man how are you?
Have you tried the gauntlet in a buggy?Precisely.
After the last Buckyball Race, I finally decided to get my racing Hauler, Haulier Than Thou, fully engineered. It was mostly legacy modules, so as always I decided to get fresh ones and Engineer from there. Which necessitates visiting an appropriate Engineer of the right type for experimental upgrades. The last modules on my list required either visiting two separate engineers, or Farseerer in Deciat. It was getting late, and I wanted to finish it. So I chose Deciat.
There was one seal clubber lurking near the star, but they took so long to react I was halfway there before I finally saw them rise out of the ecliptic. There was another probable GIFTed player lurking near the gas giant, but I’m fairly sure my high speed approach left them flat footed. Either that, or they went after the two other players who were taking the slow path.
I finally I dropped into Farseer base, and there was yet another combat ship lurking there. I couldn’t remember if there were multiple small pads, so I decided on a Buckyball landing, hoping that the unexpected speed of an enhanced Hauler would catch them off guard. Sadly, they were lined up to shoot the pad, but I think I would’ve survived the shot if not for the lithobraking attempt.
Either way, I was at the base, so I added the experimental effects I wanted, and logged out.
It was a lot of fun, but I’m glad I don’t have to run that gauntlet everyday.
Have you tried the gauntlet in a buggy?
I mean the SRV.It might help if you define what you mean by “buggy.” I suspect that what I’m picturing is quite different, given that I’ve frequently compare the Hauler to a jeep when kitted out for exploration…
The game, maybe?what you mean by “buggy.”
See! Totally different. I was wondering if you meant the spaceship equivalent of a “horse and buggy” when my first thought was of a dune buggy. The Scarab SRV never even crossed my mind.I mean the SRV.
[deleted]A simple question that can have a complicated answer regarding it.
How do you feel about ganckers? Are they people just playing the game? Are they bullies? Should there be a punishment for gancking? If so, what should it be? Are you a gancker yourself? If so, why? Does anyone have any stories to share regarding ganckers?
All that I have to say to this long post: C&P to govern player vs. player behavior and content play has always been a failed system when implemented. You can retrace past games that have tried and failed. You have to properly identify that player vs. player is not "criminal" activity but exclusively "player vs. player" activity that wants to wear some "criminal" badge to distinguish themselves. You can also go through the histories from past MMOs and currently active MMOs and learn how player vs. player activities have a toxic impact on the overall game without a consensual framework to house and host player vs. player activities. This consensual framework is NOT the same as developing some C&P system to punish criminal activities under the misrepresentation that player vs. player activity is criminal: it is not.Arena is balanced, without any risk. You won't get interdicted by a bounty hunter after picking targets because you appeared on Inara and they came for you. Arena has its uses, but since it's balanced and fair, it's not really popular (as far as I know). Fighting in Open has the "anything can happen" flair. The target brings extra friends out of nowhere? A bounty hunter in the system saw you interdicting and is coming for help? You interdicted someone you thought was an easy target and it wasn't?
It's not a fun gameplay loop for me, but it takes but a bit of time thinking on reasons why to do it that way (aside from the classic "I want to be a jerk because I'm perpetuating the violence I suffered and I need to see it as normal and everyone to see the same").
Hacking, again, is against the ToS. Either everyone plays on equal field, or those who can't will leave the play field so the rest can.
What you're saying is similar to what some hackers did on Shinrata during December last year. They kept summoning Thargoids inside the station and locking players inside the station, unable to undock, disembark, anything. Took a while, but Frontier reversed all of the hacker's , and eventually patched the vulnerability they were exploiting. And now the hackers are searching for the next one to keep the cat and mouse game with Frontier (unless Frontier managed to also identify, target and completely ban the responsible party). Sadly, some people are poopfaces, and we can't do much about that.
Yes, you can try that. Some people will try to help you. Others will try to fight you. That's the whole point. Frontier gives us freedom, and we do with it whatever we want, whatever reason it may be. Just keep in mind that you alone won't burn down the whole game. You'll make one system popular with bounty hunters for a while, and that's it. It's a self-correcting system: do crime, get bounty, either run away like a coward and clear it immediately, or be notorious doing more crime and fly with a target on your head for people to claim. The galaxy is huge, and the bubble has how many populated systems? Tens of thousands systems? And you think you're "burning down the galaxy" with maybe locking down one system? Elite Dangerous scope is huge, and we often forget that.
One person interpretation of the C&P system doesn't make what the system actually is. Every player will say that the system is meant for this or that, and nearly everyone will disagree.
C&P is not meant to completely impede crime. If it did that, no one would play criminal, since risk/counter is too high of a hurdle. If being a criminal doesn't pay, why be then? Result would be no conflicts, no gankers, no criminals, and bounty hunters would be left with no targets to seek. In one "balance" of C&P you killed two careers at once: criminal and bounty hunting. If criminal activity, besides not paying at all and just painting a target on you, also incurs high risk, less and less criminals would act. Since this is not real world, having a brand C&P system allows criminal to appear, and people to hunt those criminals.
Currently, the intent of C&P serves more to prevent abuse of how criminal activities impact mainly the BGS than throttling gankers (they are too self important if they think C&P exist for them). Clean killing on systems heavily impact the BGS against the controller, boosting everyone else equally. For players to take over a system with clean killing, doing it enough to take over the system will either require them getting high notoriety, or having such high numbers that the crimes will be spread over way too many attackers. Notoriety doesn't affect only the player on the system where they got the bounties, it causes any infraction at all to turn several stations into a no-go zone (notorious CMDRs can't even pay a fine). Sure, you can clear a bounty with throwing yourself to the system security, and pay the rebuy of the involved ships plus the bounty. But any other infraction while notorious means having to suicide and pay rebuys, travels back from prison, etc. And 10 Notoriety takes a long time of actively playing the game to clear. This means that after a session of crime, a criminal will end up needing to spend some time not doing crime (or accepting the bothersome trouble of clearing minor infractions with suicides and travels). I've done by bit of counter BGS, flying around with 600 million in bounties from NPCs in my head for days while waiting the notoriety to die down, and it's fun stuff. Even smuggled someone into a station from that faction (while having the 600kk on my head) because they needed to get combat bonds paid from the takeover war, but they were hostile to them (so their docking clearance was of the "shoot on sight" kind).
If C&P is too brand, galaxy is set on fire (mostly from NPCs burning). If it's too strong, galaxy is boring (no crimes, no one to hunt criminals). Current execution strikes a balance between being a really inconvenient pebble that forces criminals into a timeout if they want the pebble gone and not being an insurmountable wall. Talking about this balance is fine, but ignoring the consequences of balancing too hard either way is ignorant. I doubt that gankers would be happy if Frontier announced tomorrow that anyone with Notoriety 10 gets their bounty announced to the whole galaxy, precise location tracked in real time on the galaxy map, and are free to be killed even without bounties. Maybe the announcement part would make it interesting (they gain a spotlight, bounty hunting becomes more dynamic without requiring Inara to track targets), but I don't know. I like game design, but I'm not a senior game designer, nor am a designer from Frontier to have access to tools and playtesters to test the effects of that. I don't know whether the current balance is perfect, but I've brushed a lot with it while dealing with NPCs, and it works fine from my side.
EDIT: Also, don't forget. At any point, if player interaction isn't working for you, you can play on Solo or find squads to fly with to have more people. Solo shaming is popular and a pain, but anyone is free to enjoy the game however they want. That's another aspect of the self correcting that PvP criminal activity can have: making people go Solo, reducing the amount of player to player interaction, making it more boring for everyone, until player count decreases to the point there is less ganking, making people come back and new players to pour in, bringing back gankers, rinse and repeat.
Excellent post and accurately sums up how i and many of my friends feel about OpenAll that I have to say to this long post: C&P to govern player vs. player behavior and content play has always been a failed system when implemented. You can retrace past games that have tried and failed. You have to properly identify that player vs. player is not "criminal" activity but exclusively "player vs. player" activity that wants to wear some "criminal" badge to distinguish themselves. You can also go through the histories from past MMOs and currently active MMOs and learn how player vs. player activities have a toxic impact on the overall game without a consensual framework to house and host player vs. player activities. This consensual framework is NOT the same as developing some C&P system to punish criminal activities under the misrepresentation that player vs. player activity is criminal: it is not.
This post INARA describes the headache that no one wants to deal with in Elite. You have to be a "special" person to find this type of preperation and engagement normal while trying to playing while some random third person goal in game is to crash your fun.
From the post:
"...You need shields that bounce back faster than they deplete under fire. This is possible because fast-charging bi-weaves charge even faster in supercruise, and you can optimize for resistances rather than raw shield strength. And then all you need to do is low wake as fast as possible and stay in supercruise between pulls as long as possible. There are multiple ways to achieve that, and none of them requires leaving the system. For example, you can drop out of supercruise yourself, before they pull you again. You can wait in your instance with a fully charged FSD, ready to low-wake the moment they drop in. You can turn and low wake in the opposite direction, so they have to waste time in supercruise to get behind you for the next pull. And that's only when you actually deal with multiple gankers determined to get you. Lonely gankers you can even prevent from pulling you in the first place because your dashboard shows in which direction they fly."
"A tip for setting up controls: Use the 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100 percent throttle shortcut keys to control your ship's speed. These also come in handy when gankers are hanging out in front of stations. Take your time in supercruise to align your ship with the station's mail slot, so that you have it right in front of you when you drop into the instance. Boost towards the station, request docking permission as soon as you're in 7.5 km range. To slow down, don't use your analog throttle controls but hit the 0% throttle key and then quickly tap flight assist off and on just when your speed drops below 100 m/s. With a bit of practice, you'll be able to hit the 100 m/s mark just when you pass through the slot. Your goal is to keep your approach to the station as quick and short as possible to reduce the risk of getting rammed."
The majority of Elite players would find this way too annoying and unwanted when trying to complete a Mission or drop their cargo to earn credits. This is why most, if not the vast majority, of players do not play in the Open server. Who wants this when one idiot in a ship can derail and ruin your game enjoyment or steal your game time of enjoyment over their own "personal" want to attack other non-consensual players? No one.
This is the exact problem Frontier is having and until they get some type of consensual framework to govern player vs. player activities then Elite will be "doomed to fail" or the Open server will remain a "ghost" server wasting business $$ for the small population of usage. The player vs. players will be shooting themselves in the foot over their own "ganking" want to play out this non-consensual "criminal" conduct that is very popular behavior on many MMOs. They have an entire NPC cast to role play out or personafy their "criminal" image without crashing other players fun with non-consensual attacks.
All that I have to say to this long post: C&P to govern player vs. player behavior and content play has always been a failed system when implemented. You can retrace past games that have tried and failed. You have to properly identify that player vs. player is not "criminal" activity but exclusively "player vs. player" activity that wants to wear some "criminal" badge to distinguish themselves. You can also go through the histories from past MMOs and currently active MMOs and learn how player vs. player activities have a toxic impact on the overall game without a consensual framework to house and host player vs. player activities. This consensual framework is NOT the same as developing some C&P system to punish criminal activities under the misrepresentation that player vs. player activity is criminal: it is not.
This post INARA describes the headache that no one wants to deal with in Elite. You have to be a "special" person to find this type of preperation and engagement normal while trying to playing while some random third person goal in game is to crash your fun.
From the post:
"...You need shields that bounce back faster than they deplete under fire. This is possible because fast-charging bi-weaves charge even faster in supercruise, and you can optimize for resistances rather than raw shield strength. And then all you need to do is low wake as fast as possible and stay in supercruise between pulls as long as possible. There are multiple ways to achieve that, and none of them requires leaving the system. For example, you can drop out of supercruise yourself, before they pull you again. You can wait in your instance with a fully charged FSD, ready to low-wake the moment they drop in. You can turn and low wake in the opposite direction, so they have to waste time in supercruise to get behind you for the next pull. And that's only when you actually deal with multiple gankers determined to get you. Lonely gankers you can even prevent from pulling you in the first place because your dashboard shows in which direction they fly."
"A tip for setting up controls: Use the 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100 percent throttle shortcut keys to control your ship's speed. These also come in handy when gankers are hanging out in front of stations. Take your time in supercruise to align your ship with the station's mail slot, so that you have it right in front of you when you drop into the instance. Boost towards the station, request docking permission as soon as you're in 7.5 km range. To slow down, don't use your analog throttle controls but hit the 0% throttle key and then quickly tap flight assist off and on just when your speed drops below 100 m/s. With a bit of practice, you'll be able to hit the 100 m/s mark just when you pass through the slot. Your goal is to keep your approach to the station as quick and short as possible to reduce the risk of getting rammed."
The majority of Elite players would find this way too annoying and unwanted when trying to complete a Mission or drop their cargo to earn credits. This is why most, if not the vast majority, of players do not play in the Open server. Who wants this when one idiot in a ship can derail and ruin your game enjoyment or steal your game time of enjoyment over their own "personal" want to attack other non-consensual players? No one.
This is the exact problem Frontier is having and until they get some type of consensual framework to govern player vs. player activities then Elite will be "doomed to fail" or the Open server will remain a "ghost" server wasting business $$ for the small population of usage. The player vs. players will be shooting themselves in the foot over their own "ganking" want to play out this non-consensual "criminal" conduct that is very popular behavior on many MMOs. They have an entire NPC cast to role play out or personafy their "criminal" image without crashing other players fun with non-consensual attacks.