How do you feel about ganckers?

[Darrack]

You mean the fact that paying them off at IF requires a relog to register the fact in the UI? Noticed that the first time in 3000 hours of playing yesterday after a spree of surface scan/power failure/data aquisition missions No wonder these bugs go unfixed; 99% of players probably never get a superpower bounty. At worst best they get a small 800 cr bounty if a pirate assassination mission requires them to scan a surface installation data link.

While I generally agree with you, I think in Elite from purely technical skill point of view PvP is the highest form of combat skill since Elite is more like Battlefield, Unreal Tournament, Counter-Strike, Il-2 or DCS where it's the player skill that matters, not their character's level or what in-game abilities/perks they invested in. Of course there is the more esoteric skillset of situation analysis, strategising and organizing player groups in BGS/PP/Thargoid war, but that's more of a metagaming skillset.

But as raw game mechanics go, PvP is the most difficult activity in Elite simply due to the fact that real people don't follow a rigid script when fighting. Pirate lords or Thargoid Hydras don't really throw you curveballs, they follow the script and the difficulty is in learning the moves and doing the "dance" perfectly without missing a beat, just like Souls-like boss fights. Humans on the other hand are full of surprises and every human has different reaction times, hand-eye coordination, ability to learn and become better and other variables that makes no two fights the same.

I say this as someone who's 99.9% PvE, but has had PvP encounters (with only two wins to my name, mind you, and the second one was a one-hit kill of a shieldless unengineered Viper MKIV in a CZ, so it doesn't really count) and who enjoys watching high-level PvP fight videos and learning from PvP tutorials—it makes me a better PvE pilot, too.

What i am trying to get across is its the person not the gameplay, there are no grounds for saying a PvP player is better than a PvE player which some suggest.
Just because im 100% PVE in ED doesn't mean i couldn't kick a gankers backside in a similar ship (been there done that).

As i have said before PvP aint that difficult, its just another form of gameplay to learn.

O7

 

[Darkfyre99]

What i am trying to get across is its the person not the gameplay, there are no grounds for saying a PvP player is better than a PvE player which some suggest.
Just because im 100% PVE in ED doesn't mean i couldn't kick a gankers backside in a similar ship (been there done that).

As i have said before PvP aint that difficult, its just another form of gameplay to learn.

O7

While I agree with the general sentiment, you're not comparing like for like. When it comes to PvP, I would rank general skills at that niche in the following tiers:

• PvPers
• Mixed PvP/PvE players
• PvP inclined PvE players, like myself
• Player killers, AKA gankers
• combat oriented PvE players
• PvE players in general

PvE players aren't PvE players because they haven't learned PvP. They're PvE players because they have zero interest in PvP, and thus won't learn it, anymore than a combat oriented PvE player will learn to mine. Which is why player-killers target them nearly exclusively. Which in turn is why they tend to be the most predictable in PvP, and react poorly when you don't follow their "script." PvE players are just as predictable as NPCs, in their own way.

As I said earlier, if you want to be in Open, you don't need to be a good PvPer to survive. You just need to be better than the player-killers, which isn't that hard to do IME. But you have to have the desire to learn in the first place, which is something PvE players have no interest in.

 

[Rebel Yell]

As I said earlier, if you want to be in Open, you don't need to be a good PvPer to survive. You just need to be better than the player-killers, which isn't that hard to do IME. But you have to have the desire to learn in the first place, which is something PvE players have no interest in.

...better... or just smarter (which doesn't even require much learning).

My 2c: any comparison among players' types it's imho pretty much relative... even "combat" is a generic activity but with several / potentially infinite sub-classifications depending on ships/sizes/builds etc. i.e. there are many talented PvPers flying FDLs but not showing same talent in big ships (and viceversa) just sayin'

 

[Yuri John]

Spoiler: A few words out of my brain.

Death to Humanity. I had warned you.

 

[Shurimal]

So the next bountyable crime you commit against any faction of that power? Boom. 10k instant superpower bounty. That after you clear it, will be back again the instant you commit another crime.

Oh, wow, then I just joined the club yesterday That's a bit annoying, but luckily not a huge deal. Never liked the Federation much, anyways.

Guess that's just part of the life of a black ops specialist/privateer/freelance intel contractor. Indies forever!

 

[Darrack]

When it comes to PvP

Exactly, not a better player just better at PvP.
But Elite isnt a level playing field, it isnt balanced (thankfully) for real PvP.
Most interactions are murder boat vs easy target and that requires no skill whatsoever.

O7

 

[Rebel Yell]

Most interactions are murder boat vs easy target and that requires no skill whatsoever.

That's not exactly true... let's have a drilldown at the Inara security report (just c&p right now):



Even accounting in full Shinrarta, all murders vs. cr/\pboats are like less than 30% of the total, whilst only counting PvPers spots kabooms + all legit or pseudo-legit wars/powerplay related ones the figure is at least 45% of the total. Of course such % may change depending on various CGs, initiatives or GalNet posts (or searches for something) but bottom line those figures just say that ganks do not have big relevance in terms of numbers among the Inara subscribers (this is a clear limit of the available information, but that's all we have unless FDEVs provide them for the whole active players' base).

 

[Darrack]

That's not exactly true... let's have a drilldown at the Inara security report (just c&p right now):

View attachment 382297

Even accounting in full Shinrarta, all murders vs. cr/\pboats are like less than 30% of the total, whilst only counting PvPers spots kabooms + all legit or pseudo-legit wars/powerplay related ones the figure is at least 45% of the total. Of course such % may change depending on various CGs, initiatives or GalNet posts (or searches for something) but bottom line those figures just say that ganks do not have big relevance in terms of numbers among the Inara subscribers (this is a clear limit of the available information, but that's all we have unless FDEVs provide them for the whole active players' base).

Nice but lets also add in the caveat that many like myself are not linked to that site and the few times (way back when i started) my PP cargo transporter was interdicted it was by a far superior ship built for PvP.
Also i notice that the above has 'opinions' not facts.

O7

 

[The Own of Noon]

Hey whoever enjoys practice/sandbox/solo however much, and no matter how effective they believe of "gameplay" that is, they only thing it has to do with gankers that I have thought of are:
1.) Many players cite it as an effective way to avoid ganking.
2.) Many gankers probably also go into closed modes when they aren't ganking, I'll speculate.

Personally, I've gotten ganked a few times. It felt dumb

With time I reckon I feel like I will learn to fight them and hunt them and enjoy that; but it's not a priority. I am more interested in doing other stuff.

Well I like to do my biz in the real open world, not sealed off. But that's specifically why I gave a couple of tips on avoiding them gankers.

Exactly, not a better player just better at PvP.

I feel like some of your arguments CMDR Darrack logically propose that in all of the possible ratios of PvP vs PvE that a CMDR could do, they are likely to be precisely as effective at combat and "the game", for their time spent. And I reject that

"I'll O7 YOU!!" -- P. Noon

--------------------------

Now everybody have a fine Tuesday and tell us how ya really feel about gankers

And keep up the good work CMDR snow huskey

 

[Darrack]

And I reject that

That's your opinion, care to explain your conclusions?

O7

 

[Darrack]

I feel like some of your arguments CMDR Darrack logically propose that in all of the possible ratios of PvP vs PvE that a CMDR could do, they are likely to be precisely as effective at combat and "the game", for their time spent. And I reject that

In fact lets put this another way (because I'm starting to repeat myself here).

lets say i was in the bubble, i crank up the Top Gun sound track, put on my leet PvP flying pants and head to a contested system in my heavily engineered Corvette for some Anti Ganking combat in Open (you can lecture me on irony later!).
After a while its apparent that gankers don't want to fight an equally geared ship so bored i head back to the Carrier and head out in one of my mining ships for some gentle rock breaking.
At what point in my journey did i suddenly become a worse pilot?

Also going back to the 'PVE is Dull' comment, im currently mapping systems in Rykers with some friends based on some Raxxla hypothesis.
I spend a lot of my time exploring generation ships and areas of Lore.
We also map Guardian ruins and are trying to figure out a greater understanding of why they are there.
During this i have seen some amazing sights and risked life and limb landing on some stupidly high G planets.

As a PvPer you do what? sit in a system hoping someone in a trading ship passes by?

Which of the above is really dull?

O7

 

[Rebel Yell]

Nice but lets also add in the caveat that many like myself are not linked to that site and the few times (way back when i started) my PP cargo transporter was interdicted it was by a far superior ship built for PvP.

Link to Inara works even if one-sided, but yeah that's correct... the game doesn't provide any clue regarding the system "threat level" linked to [any sort of] PvP activity.

The case of a powerplay hauler vs a powerplay murderer is indeed quite common, as that's part of the game: one hauls, the other looks to stop hauling... and it's all related to efficiency.

I mean one couldn't haul that much on a combat-fitted ship and one couldn't stop many haulers on a non-combat fitted ship.

Is that unbalanced? Yes, it is (by game design).

[of course there are some workarounds, excluding for a moment the game-mode or the block-list]

Also i notice that the above has 'opinions' not facts.

That's true, everything is most a guess of what happens here or there... but it's needed in order to "connect some dots".

 

[Screemonster]

That's good to know, because I do enjoy doing those surface scan missions occasionally. Though the challenge was to get in and out quickly enough not to get a bounty, but that isn't always possible.

Speaking of which, do you have a link to the bug report? I think I have a free vote at this time.

ha ha ha ha ha
it expired

 

[Darkfyre99]

ha ha ha ha ha
it expired

Of course it did.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Nice but lets also add in the caveat that many like myself are not linked to that site and the few times (way back when i started) my PP cargo transporter was interdicted it was by a far superior ship built for PvP.
Also i notice that the above has 'opinions' not facts.

O7

I’d say that while @Rebel Yell’s comments may be opinions, they are informed opinions. I can certainly see no other purpose for the high number of PvP kills in the system at the top of the list. There’s literally nothing in that system. Same for the other systems they listed as “private group fights.”

 

[Darrack]

I’d say that while @Rebel Yell’s comments may be opinions, they are informed opinions

Completely agree and i have huge respect for Rebel, we want the same things afterall for the BGS/PP just different views on how to get there.
My arguments arnt against playstyles, just some folks views that somehow PvP is more skilled then PvE which is utter rubbish.

O7

 

[galahad2069]

There’s literally nothing in that system.

Except for us

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

If you run PvE and PvP in the same game you need to separate coop from competitive players. The gamer archetypes are mutually exclusive. On a PvP shard ganking is no problem. On a PvE shard ganking isn't possible.
Problem solved.

 

[The Own of Noon]

As a PvPer you do what?

Are you implying I am "a PVPer"/"ganker"? ha ha well,

No just ha ha!

And I reject that

That's your opinion, care to explain your conclusions?

And no but please, you can call me out and I'll take you to town on those arguments, in the appropriate thread, sir CMDR Darrack. Make my day! I'll gladly gank you in that particular way!

I could simplify it further though, the logic summary. Make my day and go ask for it buddy <link>!

 

[Darrack]

Are you implying I am "a PVPer"/"ganker"? ha ha well,

No just ha ha!



And no but please, you can call me out and I'll take you to town on those arguments, in the appropriate thread, sir CMDR Darrack. Make my day! I'll gladly gank you in that particular way!

I could simplify it further though, the logic summary. Make my day and go ask for it buddy <link>!

So that's a no for your conclusions then?
Good luck with the gank unless your 30K LY out in Rykers and in my PG

O7