Is Cobra mk5 op?

Agree with that. And it being pricier than the MkIII doesn't mean anything in this economy, anyway - there are easy fortunes to be made everywhere, certainly at a level to make this ship cheap. I often fly a ship with a 50k rebuy and it is essentially free, has taken away any sense of peril!
Regarding the suggested in some comments in some pages like the first page economical barrier, I think that this is a very very delicate topic for us all and developers to treat with very much attention.
If they raise prices they cause consequences. I learned all this by playing RTS since many decades.
In non RTS it's easier but still even if not Real Time Strategy games it's still complicated in part to manage anything you insert in a game, change, remove etc.

Having players even more "needing the money" would damage the gameplay as people would focus even more on that.
This thing needs to be handled with care.
I was almost induced to vomit when I saw years ago the HUGE amount of videos on "how to make money" that youtube is\was filled with and youtube was 6+ years ago suggesting me to watch, without from me any interest at the time. Sure money is important but the game fun and community and potential is elsewhere.

Developers need to handle with care prices of things, especially for new audience as they set the ton for the entire game or anyway the new players the new experience, how people will play togetrher or actually alone in segregated box (which is something I can't stand).

Open forever
 
As a counter argument...a new ford Mustang is better than the Model T Ford...technology moves on.

Another counter argument, the Cobra MkIV and the Asp Scout...both were pretty terrible and were largely derided by the community. Those ships represent a decent investment in dev hours and nobody wants to fly them (yes, some ppl do fly them but it's more for the 'look at me I fly the worst ship in the game and I don't care').

FDev are really trying to switch things up a gear and they need to given the financial performance over the past 2 years. They have made 4 slightly OP ships for our pleasure, I don't think any of them are game breaking good but certainly represent a step up in performance / utility and all have been well received. Personally I'm all for this new FD approach, give us fun new toys and fun things to do in them. Get players spending ARX to unlock them...it's a good plan but it only works if the ships are actually worth getting.
Oi!! I absolutely love my Asp-S. Been all over the galaxy in it, Sag A, Colonia (both before FC's). My reason is not one of 'look at me' - I like small, simplistic ships (it makes the black feel blacker and more dangerous) and my main reason is that from the rear it looks like a DeTomaso Mangusta. It jumps 50-odd light years and I think it looks cool. It's all I want!!

Sorry will zippit again, now. Just love that little ship. Never occurs to me what others will think when they see me flying it.
 
All of these SCO-ready ships are obsoleting the previous offerings anyway. Look at the Mandalay's jump and speed verses any other medium ship. The T-8 crushes on cargo. And the P2 is right up there with the FdL. All designed for the SCO drive. Why anyone is concerned with the old ships surprises me.
Well, the Keelback is still, by far, my favourite ship in the game, and mine is still amazing. My DBX is not about to be replaced. And from what they've made so far, I don't see Fdev adding a new ship that makes combat more fun than the Eagle MkII does.
None of these ships were the "best" ships (though the DBX is definitely top tier) but they are all ships that make me feel what I think games like Elite should make you feel. And when I look at the new ships I'm not feeling it.
So yeah, I am concerned with the old ships.
 
Last edited:
All of these SCO-ready ships are obsoleting the previous offerings anyway. Look at the Mandalay's jump and speed verses any other medium ship. The T-8 crushes on cargo. And the P2 is right up there with the FdL. All designed for the SCO drive. Why anyone is concerned with the old ships surprises me.
Well, the Keelback is still, by far, my favourite ship in the game, and my is still amazing. My DBX is not about to be replaced. And from what they've made so far, I don't see Fdev adding a new ship that makes combat more fun than the Eagle MkII does.
None of these ships were the "best" ships (though the DBX is definitely top tier) but they are all ships that make me feel what I think games like Elite should make you feel. And when I look at the new ships I'm not feeling it.
So yeah, I am concerned with the old ships.
 
How bad does that cook with Guardian PP (OC would be similar)? Manageable with staggered fire?
It cooks the same as with G4 OC/TS (Eff:0.43)
Guardian is 0.50, so not worth the mats. That's
why I fit the AFMU. With it I can bag 3 Elite mediums
before running out of ammo and frying to death.

I never stagger fire. The name of the game is FUN!
 
It cooks the same as with G4 OC/TS (Eff:0.43)
Guardian is 0.50, so not worth the mats. That's
why I fit the AFMU. With it I can bag 3 Elite mediums
before running out of ammo and frying to death.

The name of the game is FUN!
Nice, when I saw the AFMU on the build I actually kicked myself for being dumb in the past and giving up on power hungry (hot) rail builds due to mod damage on the rails getting annoying on longer assassination mission stacking outings, could have just thrown in an AFMU and repaired in SC between targets and somehow never thought of it, thanks!
 
Cool ship, but I don't know if FDev didn't overdo it by making the agility and controllability of this ship arcade-level? Better agility by 20 points than Eagle.

Not that I'm nitpicking, but do we want new ships to go in the direction where they're super easy easy to control and literally have no flaws? Each of the previous ships had some quirks, smaller or bigger, and that made them interesting, leaving a lot of room for experimentation. This one had this, that one had that, etc.

And we get a ship that beats the Eagle and Vulture in agility, speed, etc. Boost acceleration beats other ships hands down, top speed with full armor and weapons - wow. And... those insane lateral thrusters.

I regret that a bit, because I like small ships and I had each one for special tasks, because each one is unique in something. And here I get a ship that's better at everything. I know I don't have to fly it, but... those previous ships look pale in comparison and in fact in your game you can limit yourself only to ships that came out this year, right?

Many new players will ask - what small ship would you recommend? Of course everyone will write that Cobra mk5. Because this ship simply beats everything in its category hands down. Previously there were different opinions. For example, take Vulture for combat, some recommended Cobra mk3 others Viper 4 or DBS. So, it's a bit of a shame that few people will recommend other flavors, when the meta ship is within reach, you can't blame them for that.

And what is your opinion, is Cobra mk5 too good for a small ship and don't you feel control of Cobra mk5 feels too arcade?

hA49ZFs.png
I agree with most of what you say. And I personally like it when you feel the weight of the ships, with ships like the Eagle MkII being allowed to show off how light and nimble they are. But, as Fdev don't really seem to like to tweek ships after they've be released, I think we just have to accept the new reality.
At the same time I wouldn't mind if Fdev, despite their history, decided to tweek the older ships.
An "Eagle MkII Turbo, a "DBXX", and a "Keelback Vector" wouldn't go amiss.
Not new ships, just slightly upgraded versions.
 
Nice, when I saw the AFMU on the build I actually kicked myself for being dumb in the past and giving up on power hungry (hot) rail builds due to mod damage on the rails getting annoying on longer assassination mission stacking outings, could have just thrown in an AFMU and repaired in SC between targets and somehow never thought of it, thanks!
NP CMDR. This 5xRail Cobra replaced my 4xRail Viper MKIV. That was a fun ship too but could run much cooler at 0.26 for some reason.
 
Last edited:
What I find baffling is how quickly the new monetisation model has become accepted and even celebrated by the player/customer base.
I haven't seen anybody "celebrate" it. What I have found is that most players understand that given the worrying news that were being hinted at especially last year that Frontier was downsizing, perhaps even cutting back on ED development, who knows, maybe even having to abandon it altogether, signals that weren't exactly helped by the fact of how infrequently and slowly any new features and events were being added to the game, all of this indicating that the company and the ED team have probably been in dire need of more revenue, that they have found a way to get more of that revenue in a manner that's perfectly acceptable (eg. the new ships aren't behind a paywall, only 3-or-so months early access is behind a paywall, which you can wait or pay as you wish).

In other words, would most players have preferred that eg. the new ships had been available immediately for credits rather than ARX? Probably. Does this early-access-paywall scheme bother them too much, given the context described above? Not really. Most understand and are ok with it.

I find absolutely nothing "baffling" about that, and do not understand why some do. It looks perfectly reasonable to me.

(Another thing that I do find genuinely baffling is those long-time players, including some twitch streamers I have seen first-hand, who outright brag about not having spent a dime on the game, and how they will never do, as if that were some kind of personal accomplishment and source of pride. I'm not even making that up. And this about a game that they love and have been playing for almost a decade. That is truly baffling.)
 
The radically improved yaw is annoying though, to me it's an essential part of Elite lore that a Cmdr has to use aerobatic-like banked turns to get anywhere. I like how the Mk III and the Python really do feel like you're turning on the gyros when you use yaw. Would have been fun to have a new Settlement-hopper that was almost spherical with incredible yaw and laterals but terrible hardpoints.

My perspective on this as a relative newcomer to Elite, is that the difference in yaw vs pitch speed never made any sense. Most of the time we're in space where there is no up or down, no sensible engineer would design a spacecraft to operate in a three-dimensional environment and also limit its ability to turn on one axis.

I don't think having equal yaw and pitch speeds takes away too much from the "dogfighting in space" feel of the flight model that's clearly inspired by popular science fiction media.
 
I was an original kickstarter backer, backing for much more than the full-price cost of the released games. I strongly support the new Arx strategy and (personally) a subscription would also be fine by me. I trust Frontier, and I want the game to continue. I understand that this means I will need to keep funding the game.

I would rather pay for the game than have it be “free” i.e. funded by ads or unsustainable. This (Arx) is a great way to achieve that.
All I can say to this that we have fundamentally different views on spending on the game. For me it's purely transactional - company offers a product I like, at a reasonable price (which is subjective of course), and I will pay accordingly. But if your approach works for you, I won't begrudge you.
I agree, the finish differs between versions - I was considering that for a while after EDO launch the finish was totally broken (block colours, no changes)

But, at least they are better now, and look very good. The lighting in EDO was changed from that in Legacy, for better or worse...


Subs would kil the game... Look how much resistance there is to spending a tenner for each of 4 ships there has been, actually paying to play would bring tears to many, judging by the reaction from some forum members over the years to such an outrageous idea. (and I'm one of the ones who would not pay to play, did that with WoW foor 2 years, never again)

For free, the servers are about as good as it gets, maybe?
On the paints - if you were to go back and check 3.8 as I did, it might come as a shock how much more vibrant and shiny the skins are there. Only skins that were developed post 4.0 release look better in 4.0. It's weird that Frontier didn't manage to port some pretty basic skins over between their very own engines. The only silver lining for me is it put me off spending a lot of money on cosmetic items like I used to in Elite.

On subs - I refer to the post right above you ;) but yes, I would stop playing also because I don't believe in subs for games, and don't play games that have them. Still, would be interesting to see how Frontier would fare. Probably similar to most of the rest of their IP in all honesty.
We have had ships that were behind a DLC paywall from about eight years ago, the wall was removed when Base and Horizons were merged but lasted for years not months.
Difference being that back then all you had to do is buy Horizons, and you had access straightaway. As it should be really (imo - I know many of you seem to disagree on this).
I bought the game, initially, on Dec. 17th 2014. After I pre-ordered all of the expansions plus some Beta access along the way. I have tons of ship kits and paint-jobs for a variety of ships, from the Vulture to the iChief, that have become obsolete with the advent of the SCO ready ships. None of that has been wasted. I have enjoyed exactly 64w 10h 44m (That's more than a year actually in-game), I find it a fair trade.

I have spent hundreds on game controls, flightsticks, throttles ect. Way more than I have on the game itself, but do you think I wouldn't buy VKB stick because I already paid for a Thrustmaster stick? Na, if it's better and I can afford it, I do it. Same with the game. If I like something enough I'll buy it. I never bought an Anaconda though, I don't like large ships.

Why would you have to pay for a second movie ticket, if you've already paid to see it once? Should that one ticket be a lifetime pass? I'm sure you know the answer to that. Gaming is entertainment, not an investment.
That's a crazy amount of time to play the game (and not buy an Anaconda??! even to try it out?). I'm at around 4.5k hours (stopped counting). From a Euro per hour perspective for sure good value, but I don't really measure it that way, because many, many of those hours weren't really fun at all (SC trips, grinding for whatever, etc.) - I tend to just look at the actual cost and then work out whether it was worth it or not; in hindsight, I do regret buying maybe half if not 3/4 of the cosmetic items for Elite, especially given how they ended up in 4.0. But I understand some people, like yourself, do use such metric to justify the expense. If that works for you then great.
I haven't seen anybody "celebrate" it. What I have found is that most players understand that given the worrying news that were being hinted at especially last year that Frontier was downsizing, perhaps even cutting back on ED development, who knows, maybe even having to abandon it altogether, signals that weren't exactly helped by the fact of how infrequently and slowly any new features and events were being added to the game, all of this indicating that the company and the ED team have probably been in dire need of more revenue, that they have found a way to get more of that revenue in a manner that's perfectly acceptable (eg. the new ships aren't behind a paywall, only 3-or-so months early access is behind a paywall, which you can wait or pay as you wish).

In other words, would most players have preferred that eg. the new ships had been available immediately for credits rather than ARX? Probably. Does this early-access-paywall scheme bother them too much, given the context described above? Not really. Most understand and are ok with it.

I find absolutely nothing "baffling" about that, and do not understand why some do. It looks perfectly reasonable to me.

(Another thing that I do find genuinely baffling is those long-time players, including some twitch streamers I have seen first-hand, who outright brag about not having spent a dime on the game, and how they will never do, as if that were some kind of personal accomplishment and source of pride. I'm not even making that up. And this about a game that they love and have been playing for almost a decade. That is truly baffling.)
All I will say is, if Frontier have a revenue, cost, or cashflow problem, that really isn't the fault of the customer. If people think their Arx purchases and what not are going to pull Frontier out of whatever finacial trouble they may find themselves in, then good luck with that. I've bought plenty of Arx in the past, begrudgingly so, because I know full well that it's anti-consumer (e.g., price obfuscation, no receipts, etc.).

But to think that those revenues go directly into the development of Elite - which I have to assume is what those people who "support" Frontier with their purchases must believe - while the developer has plenty of other IPs in their portfolio (most failing really) that requires funding also, that's just a little naive imo.

My replies to those who care. Don't want to derail the thread any further so will bow out after this.
 
Exactly, we just need to wait for the next one... the definitive long range hauling flying fortress... agile like a Vulture but with 800t cargo, 15k mj shields, 560m/s boost and 40ly jump laden.

You just told FD how to make good money Panther Clipper.

Seriously that arcade handling of a ship will ruin what's amazing int his game - unique feeling of each ship with all quirks they come. Direction where all ships no matter of their size, weight, limit handle and fly super is wrong.
 
My replies to those who care. Don't want to derail the thread any further so will bow out after this.
Well expressed, and - genuinely - thanks for keeping it civil. I think my spending on Elite is partly coming from a place of nostalgia and partly from simply enjoying the universe, finding my (disfunctional, hostile, cynical, hilarious) tribe and frankly not having the time to play more than one game. If I live long enough, I will be here to interdict and gank the second-to-last commander before they rage quit. :)
 
Finally, once you load up your existing modules, and get out there, how often do you see a re-buy? I really decide when I loose a ship, so free-rebuys aren't so free, and hardly useful to a PvE guy.

In the last 50-60 hours or so of play time. Twice. For ~7 million a pop.
But that was because I was trying to get my Titan Kickers Participation Award and didn't have my setup quite right.
I did make ~10 million from rescue missions before that so I'm only down 4 million.
Well, not counting the ~75 million spent on outfitting my Python and Python Mk II.

In other words, would most players have preferred that eg. the new ships had been available immediately for credits rather than ARX? Probably. Does this early-access-paywall scheme bother them too much, given the context described above? Not really. Most understand and are ok with it.

I find absolutely nothing "baffling" about that, and do not understand why some do. It looks perfectly reasonable to me.

I wouldn't call it a paywall. More of a pay door.
 
Yep, baffling indeed. You don't see things the way I see them. Maybe you will one day, maybe you won't.

No, it is a paywall, and Frontier's version of that is "Arx". A patience wall would mean not having to do anything other than wait, and while yes a version of the Cobra mkV will be available for in-game credits if people just wait, it still won't be the same (or arguably as good) as the version you could get for real money. It is still pay-to-skip and pay-to-get-an-advantage (because the paid-for ships have a zero cost rebuy). It is a sad state of affairs that a) too many of you don't see this and b) too many of you forget too quickly as evidenced by replies to my comments, which I admit could have been worded better but still convey a point.

Talking of which ....



Some people ^^^^ miss that point.
I've been playing the game since 2014 with over 20000 hours of gameplay. I have over 25B in assets, but not hundreds of billions, that I could have easily gathered had I picked trading and then exobiology. But I did a lot of bounty hunting in small ships.

My point is, credits are raining and the rebuy of a ship is dominated(!!) by the sum of the cost of the armor and the modules, not the cost of the ship.

To give you an example, a stock krait phantom costs 37.5M with a rebuy of 1.87M. A g5 phantom costs 225M with a rebuy of 11.2M.

Since I paid arx for the standard pmk2, not the stellar version, the vast majority of my rebuy cost is made up of cost other than what I paid for by arx, arx that I did not pay for but collected thru playing the game.

And that doesn't include 'advantage' players get by playing other game loops.

I am fine supporting the game so it stays alive, and I don't think having to wait a few months disadvantages players in any meaningful sense of the term. After that, they may have to pay slightly more, but money is raining so it is a non-issue.

I understand your argument on a theoretical bases and I can respect it. So I probably spend a little money on arx for others so we can all enjoy, and debate our first world problems (like today my starbucks coffee had a little less half & half than what I am use to, ed me off so bad I had to go to the dying titan and dropped a cargo full of limpets on it).
 
Last edited:
Is the Cobra 5 overpowered?

Well I have only flown the stock version with no changes whatsoever and the handling felt fine and boosting it into a planet with no shields caused a satisfactory explosion rather than an invulnerable bounce, it is fast and accelerates well but as bought from a shipyard doesn’t seem overpowered.

So no.
The fully engineered version is seriously overpowered imo, I virtually can't get hit in pve. There is talk among pvp wing organizers to ban it from wing fights (not that most commanders care or should care about that).

Fully engineered cobra mk5 will also close the gap between flying it faoff vs faon for the most part, except for top 0.1% of CMDRs. Arcade.
 
Most of the time we're in space where there is no up or down, no sensible engineer would design a spacecraft to operate in a three-dimensional environment and also limit its ability to turn on one axis.
But again, the spacecraft are not the right shape and do not have the thruster placement to end up with equal rates across all three axes.

I'm not going to say the Elite craft have "sensible engineers" because there's all sorts of things that look great but make no sense. BUT, unless your sensible engineer designs a sphere with six pairs of equal-sized attitude thrusters placed in opposition it will not have the same turn rate in all directions.

One thing that is consistent with ship design so far is none of the ships have major thrusters that would help with yaw, so again, if you're going with logic based on classical physics and what is in the game, those ships should have crappy yaw rates.

There is no up and down relative to any gravitational body, sure, but that is completely irrelevant to turn rates of a body that is indeed floating in space with six degrees of freedom. What matters is where you apply thrust and for how long and in what vectored direction and what the polar moment of that axis might be.

Edit to add: On reflection, Istvaan's point that a spacegame ought to be designed around 6DOF from the get-go possibly speaks to my point. Elite: Dangerous deliberately was not designed this way. Now there's one ship, which does have near-equal turn rates on three axes, but not quite, yet somehow still looks pretty much the same as the others physically. Giving the V these abilities goes against resisting that in 40 other ships so far. So it's neither a 6DOF ship nor a ship that has "Eliteness." Worst of both worlds...
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom