The Zurara is part of the Formidine Rift mystery, which was an event organized by the writer Drew Wagar, who explicitly said his story isn't connected to Raxxla in anyway, so it's pointless to look for clues there.
The Quest To Find Raxxla
- Thread starter Macros Black
- Start date
True, but the creators of the toast are obviously using motifs from classical Greek mythology so the astronomy being used are from the perspective of Sol.
Ring in the far dark
send a thing to show the glow
yonder shade of green
(Robert Rockbite, 3311-02-04)
send a thing to show the glow
yonder shade of green
(Robert Rockbite, 3311-02-04)
I'm honestly stumped by that reference. However, the third part of the toast:
"The parent's grief, the lover's woe, and the yearning of our vagabond hearts."
- could be referring to Demeter, mother of Persephone who was abducted and taken to the underworld by Pluto. By all accounts, Pluto did love Persephone btw.
I looked it up via EDSM and both Demeter & Persephone are actual stars. Pluto was still considered a planet at the time the original Elite was created so that would give us Sol.
Arcturus
Demeter
Persephone
Sol
Gives us four (assuming Pluto counts). That leaves two more.
And the second part of the equation? What is the siren?
A siren in classical mythology is something that calls to you and makes want to get closer, almost always associated with additional risk for death. (Odysseus had an encounter with sirens = sweet-singing bird-women, and was tied to his ship's mast to make him stay on his ship.)
Anything like that near here? Lore? Something else?
I don't know the timelines, but the referenced line in the toast comes very close to 'to whatever is signalling from the center of the galaxy'. If the real toast (by which I mean in-game report of it) predates the Landscape Signal, it may be a clue to its existence. (It may raise some questions about consistency , but it seems it would be something of central interest to The Dark Wheel as a group examining real or purported galactic mysteries.)
With Zurara it is clear, but other references or any findings related to the Sirens have not yet been found. Anything can be encrypted in this toast, really from Methology to specific coordinates... for example, the North Star (Polaris) can be a pearl/Jewel, and the vagabond hearts - the Heart Nebula. Сalling void - direction from the center of the galaxy towards the outskirts (outside)
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Is Pluto ever represented to be woebegone over Kore's/Persephone's annual return to Demeter? I can't offhand recall any.
But what about the next level: what is the connection between Demeter's grief and Pluto's woe, and presumably 'yearning of our vagabond hearts?'
Do they yearn for a daughter, or a sister, or a pretty abducted woman? And what makes either a matter of interest to The Dark Wheel as an organization? (Of course, If the Toast is not taken as a real toast, any connection with The Dark Wheel is limited, and the Toast is to be regarded only as a device for Frontier to pass on clues.)
If the clues were for astronomical locations, I would have expected "The grieving parent, the woebegone lover, ..." but I assume fair play in clues, which may not be present. But the toast is grammaticaly to grief, woe and (somewhat less) yearning as if those were of some value. Poor poetical diction? Not impossible but not quite on point with astronomical explanations either.
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"The parent's grief, the lover's woe, and the yearning of our vagabond hearts" is about fernweh - a concept linked to Raxxla by the Codex itself.
They yearn for a place away from home, an explorer's instinct that can cause distress on their families for obvious reasons.
Staying on the Greco-Roman lane, Hera would be a far better fit for "mother of galaxies" - the Milky Way is supposed to be her spilled milk, after all, and one of her symbols is a golden diadem - a very clear jewel on the brow.
They yearn for a place away from home, an explorer's instinct that can cause distress on their families for obvious reasons.
Staying on the Greco-Roman lane, Hera would be a far better fit for "mother of galaxies" - the Milky Way is supposed to be her spilled milk, after all, and one of her symbols is a golden diadem - a very clear jewel on the brow.
Parents grief, lovers woe is a good match for the story of Demeter and Persephone, I agree, especially when you consider the other aspects of the Codex namely the naming of Cora aka Kore aka Persephone, in the Codex she’s described as drunk, but in the text she never was inebriated (to my knowledge) however her mother Demeter did indulge and did talk of pirates.
The reference to the hanging jewel is by the introduction of the Brookes Tours and review of the old Dark Wheel missions, in my opinion very likely a reference to Paradise Lost. Where I’ve previously established Eden hung from the walls of heaven, which Milton referred to as hills and he used the terminology of ‘brow’ to describe them.
Eden hung above Chaos, which Milton described as the womb of creation.
As I’ve proposed previously I believe I’ve mapped this zone of Chaos in game, it has a ‘outer rim’ and one of its systems is Tiamat, the goddess of chaos and creation. This zone is likewise associated with deities and muses of the Fates in game. Not least it’s the focal point for the Thetis signal!
The positioning of Demeter and Persephone in game aligns in direction to the ‘underworld’ area which I’ve highlighted previously, which is home to Pandemonium, but also a concentration of ‘lost realms’ such as Atlantis, Avalon and the Cities of Gold etc, again and reference from the Codex.
I believe the Codex to be a series of various visual locational clues which are separate but collectively describe or allude to the same thing albeit from different approaches, and by which the author is utilising ‘personal’ influences in combination literary references, not necessarily but also not excluding direct classical contextualisation.
This is why it’s a rather complex puzzle, because the author has intentionally mixed their references rather than keep to a singular contextual thread. To explain this further, I believe that Raxxla had an alternative narrative, which was far more logical, but which was dropped, and as such the author had to be creative a reinvent elements amor shorten the concept, possibly discarding a number of narrative arcs which would explain these areas… what we have in the end is a redux of a discarded narrative…but that’s pure speculation!
The toast then is likely a simple triangulation puzzle; describing the relative location in context to nearby systems or possibly some narrative trail whereby certain systems have a shared relationship; then the rest of the codex is filling in the background perspective and environment to enable us to orientate ourselves, it is essentially telling us to follow Persephone to the Underworld where the likely is another element to observe and orientate ourselves.
I believe the author calling upon various literary examples as an aid to tell their narrative arc, these mirror the journey of Satan from Paradise Lost, and also possibly the journey of Dante in the Devine Comedy…
Using personal references I believe the eyes to see element is a reference to Bladerunner of which Brookes was a fan, the idea being to go to a particular location in the underworld, as the above reference exists inside a series of systems describing the cities of gold, and the Aztec origin myth of the ‘seven caves of the mountain’…
From here there is I believe a chain of systems which I’ve mapped and observed to all have moons around the first body all named after Hindu mountains and various naming relating paradise, I believe this is a reference to Dante’s mountain which spiralled, and on whose peak the Lethe sprang.
In game this chain ends relatively close to the Fates systems, especially Fortuna.
I believe Fortuna is the Astrophel the Codex alludes to, a literary allusion by the author for a heavenly muse, reflecting upon Milton and Dante.
Fortuna is also the source of an in game lore based religion, which existed in the original novel and which is reflected in the Trinkets of Hidden Fortune, which FD confirmed were linked to the DW missions and an archived storyline,
The other aspects I’m not so sure of, but they could well be indicating additional insight to establish another key location which bolsters some other clue to corroborate the others. I also suspect there is an archaeological alternative path, where the Author originally modelled the path of Jacques to mirror the journey of Satan out of Hell, and up through Chaos, before ultimately dropping this concept and repurposing the character.
Both concepts arrive at the same location by my calculations, namely this outer rim of Chaos, denoted by the Thetis signal…
*edited: Tau Ceti and 2296 I believe is a spacial clue denoting a sphere of influence based upon the in game lore established by systems named as colonised at the point in time. It provides context, importantly enough the ‘lost realms’ zone in the ‘underworld’ and this outer rim of Chaos I’ve talked of, falls upon the boundary of said sphere of influence.
Ive based much of this through reflection on Micheal Brookes blog and Drabbles, his interviews etc in an attempt to map his behavioural influences.
I than painstakingly researched Milton and cross referenced it against systems in game, as well as references to Holdstock.
I’ve documented all of this previously here in this thread, in various states of tin-foil or logic, usually involving wine.
Above all else I’m almost certain the path of Jacques matches that of Satan and thus a journey mirroring Paradise Lost exists in game. I’m likewise very certain the Bladerunner reference is intentional as is the zone of the Underworld, with the Lost Realms being a Holdstock homage.
For context (redacted); if this is just my void addled mind falling into space madness, then at least it’s been fun, for context I’d avoided applying my ‘work’ mind to this for a considerable time, until I ran out of tin foil, then I began approaching this logically. I now effectively don’t play Elite Dangerous, but I do play ‘Raxxla’. However but if some part of this is true, this ‘construct’ which I believe was built by Brooke’s, is truly a work of art.
The reference to the hanging jewel is by the introduction of the Brookes Tours and review of the old Dark Wheel missions, in my opinion very likely a reference to Paradise Lost. Where I’ve previously established Eden hung from the walls of heaven, which Milton referred to as hills and he used the terminology of ‘brow’ to describe them.
Eden hung above Chaos, which Milton described as the womb of creation.
As I’ve proposed previously I believe I’ve mapped this zone of Chaos in game, it has a ‘outer rim’ and one of its systems is Tiamat, the goddess of chaos and creation. This zone is likewise associated with deities and muses of the Fates in game. Not least it’s the focal point for the Thetis signal!
The positioning of Demeter and Persephone in game aligns in direction to the ‘underworld’ area which I’ve highlighted previously, which is home to Pandemonium, but also a concentration of ‘lost realms’ such as Atlantis, Avalon and the Cities of Gold etc, again and reference from the Codex.
I believe the Codex to be a series of various visual locational clues which are separate but collectively describe or allude to the same thing albeit from different approaches, and by which the author is utilising ‘personal’ influences in combination literary references, not necessarily but also not excluding direct classical contextualisation.
This is why it’s a rather complex puzzle, because the author has intentionally mixed their references rather than keep to a singular contextual thread. To explain this further, I believe that Raxxla had an alternative narrative, which was far more logical, but which was dropped, and as such the author had to be creative a reinvent elements amor shorten the concept, possibly discarding a number of narrative arcs which would explain these areas… what we have in the end is a redux of a discarded narrative…but that’s pure speculation!
The toast then is likely a simple triangulation puzzle; describing the relative location in context to nearby systems or possibly some narrative trail whereby certain systems have a shared relationship; then the rest of the codex is filling in the background perspective and environment to enable us to orientate ourselves, it is essentially telling us to follow Persephone to the Underworld where the likely is another element to observe and orientate ourselves.
I believe the author calling upon various literary examples as an aid to tell their narrative arc, these mirror the journey of Satan from Paradise Lost, and also possibly the journey of Dante in the Devine Comedy…
Using personal references I believe the eyes to see element is a reference to Bladerunner of which Brookes was a fan, the idea being to go to a particular location in the underworld, as the above reference exists inside a series of systems describing the cities of gold, and the Aztec origin myth of the ‘seven caves of the mountain’…
From here there is I believe a chain of systems which I’ve mapped and observed to all have moons around the first body all named after Hindu mountains and various naming relating paradise, I believe this is a reference to Dante’s mountain which spiralled, and on whose peak the Lethe sprang.
In game this chain ends relatively close to the Fates systems, especially Fortuna.
I believe Fortuna is the Astrophel the Codex alludes to, a literary allusion by the author for a heavenly muse, reflecting upon Milton and Dante.
Fortuna is also the source of an in game lore based religion, which existed in the original novel and which is reflected in the Trinkets of Hidden Fortune, which FD confirmed were linked to the DW missions and an archived storyline,
The other aspects I’m not so sure of, but they could well be indicating additional insight to establish another key location which bolsters some other clue to corroborate the others. I also suspect there is an archaeological alternative path, where the Author originally modelled the path of Jacques to mirror the journey of Satan out of Hell, and up through Chaos, before ultimately dropping this concept and repurposing the character.
Both concepts arrive at the same location by my calculations, namely this outer rim of Chaos, denoted by the Thetis signal…
*edited: Tau Ceti and 2296 I believe is a spacial clue denoting a sphere of influence based upon the in game lore established by systems named as colonised at the point in time. It provides context, importantly enough the ‘lost realms’ zone in the ‘underworld’ and this outer rim of Chaos I’ve talked of, falls upon the boundary of said sphere of influence.
Ive based much of this through reflection on Micheal Brookes blog and Drabbles, his interviews etc in an attempt to map his behavioural influences.
I than painstakingly researched Milton and cross referenced it against systems in game, as well as references to Holdstock.
I’ve documented all of this previously here in this thread, in various states of tin-foil or logic, usually involving wine.
Above all else I’m almost certain the path of Jacques matches that of Satan and thus a journey mirroring Paradise Lost exists in game. I’m likewise very certain the Bladerunner reference is intentional as is the zone of the Underworld, with the Lost Realms being a Holdstock homage.
For context (redacted); if this is just my void addled mind falling into space madness, then at least it’s been fun, for context I’d avoided applying my ‘work’ mind to this for a considerable time, until I ran out of tin foil, then I began approaching this logically. I now effectively don’t play Elite Dangerous, but I do play ‘Raxxla’. However but if some part of this is true, this ‘construct’ which I believe was built by Brooke’s, is truly a work of art.
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And that's something they toast? "Here's to being away from our families (parents, lovers) for another five years, fellows! We never had it so good!" Even if toned down a bit, it then seems unlikely to have anything to do with 'clues' in any direction. That makes a useful point of departure for future interpretation: the parents, lovers and hearts are simply not part of it. And if they should be considered anyway, there needs to be a reason at last as strong as the one you make to motivate it. (Yes, I consider it a good explanation.)
So only two/three points would remain, the jewel, the siren and the whisperer. But they may also be interpreted in a similar way: "here's to everything that pulls us out into the black," followed by "here's to the things we leave behind, and here's to ourselves."
If so, the Toast appears to be a private in-group thing. It has to do with the social situation of The Dark Wheel, not about finding their base or about Raxxla. And if we are to be consistent, that removes any discussion of Hera or other figures of myth, unless a reason can be found that trumps the "fernweh"-based reason.
How highly do you rank it yourself? Do you want to keep "fernweh" even if it puts the kybosh on Hera and all other mythological references apparently made, or do you prefer to have them remain, and instead drop the "wanderlust"?
(Of course, I'm interpreting the Toast as if we had good sources for it, and that it is not just something a romantic writer hundreds of years later put into their mouths. But we can also take a step back, and interpret it as 'merely a Frontier device for hints in one or more directions.' From that kind of viewpoint, I think the 'siren = Landscape signal' may make sense. But the remainder of the Toast must then also be given reasonable explanations if that choice is to hold. At present, "fernweh" seems a reasonable and consistent interpretation for the whole of the Toast. Other explanations must at least meet the same level of relevancy and coherency.)
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At the same time, the girl says that they can turn along the way to Raxxla. In the sense that it will not deviate much from its route (somewhere along the way, between point A and point B their route). Where is the final point ... Tau Ceti? (or may be it`s a start point)
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Tau Ceti and 2296 I believe is a spacial clue denoting a sphere of influence based upon the in game lore established by systems named as colonised at the point in time. It provides context, importantly enough the ‘lost realms’ zone in the ‘underworld’ and this outer rim of Chaos I’ve talked of, falls upon the boundary of said sphere of influence.
If true the codex is a rather amazing bit of 3 dimensional mapping, coalesced into textual format.
I still think the Cassiopeia/Andromeda mythology checks every box if the toast is even meant to be a clue. Cassiopeia's asterism is often referred to as a crown in the sky. Parent grief, Cassiopeia and Cepheus (King and Queen - crowns) sought to sacrifice their daughter Andromeda (Princess and later Queen - crown) to the sea monster Cetus to appease Poseidon after afronting the Nereids (sea-nymphs with melodious voices - sirens?), saved by Perseus who became her husband and later King (lover's woe? or perhaps because he had to kill Phineus, her promised, to win her). Every principle in this story can be found in the night sky. the constellations Cassiopeia, Cephus, Andromeda, Perseus, Pegasus (ridden by Perseus) and Cetus are all near each other. Nereid is a moon of Neptune and several other moons of Neptune are named after Nereids.
The inevitable brush aside that this has been explored to death is mostly irrelevant because apparently the system that houses Raxxla has already been visited and likely already explored and yet, no one knows where it is, still. The one caveat would be that almost all Greek mythology can fit into parent's grief, lover's woe, sirens, vagabonds so just pick your favorite and go with it, lol.
The inevitable brush aside that this has been explored to death is mostly irrelevant because apparently the system that houses Raxxla has already been visited and likely already explored and yet, no one knows where it is, still. The one caveat would be that almost all Greek mythology can fit into parent's grief, lover's woe, sirens, vagabonds so just pick your favorite and go with it, lol.
Someone mentioned it early, but I can't find it. I do wonder if Raxxla is just the phonetic representation for something else, like RXLA, but then why have two xes?
An interesting thought. But we searched everything from the Tau Ceti to the Sol (if mean Persephone, like a cosmic body in the solar system). And the only unusual that there is only an Witche`s Rich (With a cool star - Cauldron, which, in terms of meanings, refers the whole system to some magical witch's affairs).
If we mean the Persephone system, we also searched there (there is one station and star), perhaps we need to move away from the station somehow. or try to build a route from Persephone to Tau Ceti, and see what comes along the way... But then all these vagabond hearts and jewel fall out of the equation ... hmmm ...
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No, the first time it appeared in the book, like a certain seed. After that, the whole legend began. Subsequently, Braben laid out different secrets, but at the same time, the story remembers how he joked by the presence of a black hole in the second part of the game (if my memory is correct). And people were looking for her. Then he admitted that he came up with this, but this no longer stopped people. Perhaps the same story here
Unlike that joke, several representatives of the FDev, both of the founder’s father, spoke about Raxxla, and said in the way that it really exists
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thank you. thats about 4 points of interest. Looking into them.
Look, if we collect all this in one picture, in three -dimensional space - we get an area, but we need a point. No?