COMPLETED CG Brewer Corporation Planetary Survey Initiative (Exploration)

[Ashnak]

I thought if we submitt it here into the community goal, the devs might actually do something with that data

From the POV of the game, this CG was successful when tier 1 was reached, which was pretty fast. Since in this CG, there are no tier-dependent global rewards (unlike e.g. in the anti corrosion rack CG), anything after tier 1 was window dressing, with some increased payouts for the participants.

my view is that part of the appeal for some of those who caused the lockdown was precisely about causing the upset to players

Not necessarily - there are some opinions in this and the other running thread on this. Sure, right now after the lockdown hit (and the news about this became viral), there seem to be some players around who are fighting to keep this lockdown locked down - I admit I am tempted myself; by extending the lockdown I could keep my spot in the top 25%... But initially, it might just have been the local player faction defending their system from being taken over by Brewer Corp. The population in this system is small, so it takes little outside influence to swing it around like a cat in a bathroom.
If you want to put it in game mechanics terms - the CG caused a(n artificial) explosive rise in INF for Brewer in this system, putting them into War with Fatal Shadows (and upsetting the so far stable relations of the other 4 factions, resulting right now in another war for Fatal Shadows). Fighting the war couldn't compensate for the INF inflow from the CG, but may have been one of the major contributions to dropping the SEC of Brewer, leading to the lockdown.

Here's another example from an earlier time - I once hosted a Buckyball race, where part of the challenge was to bring rare beers into Bavarigga. This was back in the old BGS system, so take it with a rather large pinch of salt. But - this swing was effected by 12 pilots, delivering 1328 tons of rares in 44 runs (at least that's what they admitted to...):

So, imagine the effect that over 14,000 deliveries of exploration data (according to Inara, which probably means maybe twice that in real life) would have on a small population system...

 

[asternova]

Not just that, but it's really easy to lower the security state by exploding a few cops in a row, or doing a bunch of pvp, whereas pushing the security state higher as I understand it means doing lots, and lots, of CZs and turning in the bounties for them.

The one is easier and less time consuming than the other.

e: And yeah, I'm one of the many explorers who got excited for this CG, didn't realise that the system was going to go into lockdown, and is now thinking about ditching this CG altogether so i can do other things and not have to care about losing all my explo data in the process.

 

[Jmanis]

From the POV of the game, this CG was successful when tier 1 was reached, which was pretty fast. Since in this CG, there are no tier-dependent global rewards (unlike e.g. in the anti corrosion rack CG), anything after tier 1 was window dressing, with some increased payouts for the participants.


Not necessarily - there are some opinions in this and the other running thread on this. Sure, right now after the lockdown hit (and the news about this became viral), there seem to be some players around who are fighting to keep this lockdown locked down - I admit I am tempted myself; by extending the lockdown I could keep my spot in the top 25%... But initially, it might just have been the local player faction defending their system from being taken over by Brewer Corp. The population in this system is small, so it takes little outside influence to swing it around like a cat in a bathroom.
If you want to put it in game mechanics terms - the CG caused a(n artificial) explosive rise in INF for Brewer in this system, putting them into War with Fatal Shadows (and upsetting the so far stable relations of the other 4 factions, resulting right now in another war for Fatal Shadows). Fighting the war couldn't compensate for the INF inflow from the CG, but may have been one of the major contributions to dropping the SEC of Brewer, leading to the lockdown.

Here's another example from an earlier time - I once hosted a Buckyball race, where part of the challenge was to bring rare beers into Bavarigga. This was back in the old BGS system, so take it with a rather large pinch of salt. But - this swing was effected by 12 pilots, delivering 1328 tons of rares in 44 runs (at least that's what they admitted to...):

So, imagine the effect that over 14,000 deliveries of exploration data (according to Inara, which probably means maybe twice that in real life) would have on a small population system...

Brewer also got an instant 30% influence when they got injected into the system, and then player CG contributions would have very quickly spiked that, while the usual ganking would have been tanking Fatal Shadow's influence.... noting +ve actions for one side and -ve against another is the most effective way to drop a faction's influence

After Brewer win the way, progress becomes a little more inconsistent, as CG contributions help Brewer, but the usual ganking works against it

That second little peak, that's when the lockdown kicked in, and the steady downwards trend will be a result of the players that have since come in to maintain the lockdown...

So, in all honesty... the initial lockdown seems entirely accidental, just a byproduct of a low pop system running a CG.

EDIT: Also, unless Fatal Shadows don't punch any data out to Inara, a couple glances seemed to suggest that group was fairly inactive these days.

 

[Zador]

Not much change - I really thought the explorers would have made an effort over the weekend, I guess they are done

Isn't part of the problem that it is far easier to maintain the lockdown just via tagging clean ships than it is to remove it by actually having to kill things? So "not much change" does not mean people are not making an effort. "Explorers" with a single account and a lot of data to hand in are also likely to be combat averse.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Isn't part of the problem that it is far easier to maintain the lockdown just via tagging clean ships than it is to remove it by actually having to kill things? So "not much change" does not mean people are not making an effort. "Explorers" with a single account and a lot of data to hand in are likely to be combat averse.

Its easy to slap together a PvE proof ship and be totally safe in light to medium combat. You really have to go looking for trouble to find it.

 

[Shadowsnog]

I see gankers don't give up at being a thorn in community side

This cg was griefed by carebears as well as griefers.
If brewers didnt get control of the system this might not have happened. And it did not require that much effort to do so.
If you want to blame someone, blame the organisator, not players playing the game in legitimate way.

 

[Jmanis]

Isn't part of the problem that it is far easier to maintain the lockdown just via tagging clean ships than it is to remove it by actually having to kill things? So "not much change" does not mean people are not making an effort. "Explorers" with a single account and a lot of data to hand in are also likely to be combat averse.

Without knowing specifically what assault vs murder vs bounty submissions of different sizes count for, and any other artefacts, it's impossible to tell really.

 

[Screemonster]

I see gankers don't give up at being a thorn in community side

Gankers didn't fight for brewer logistics in the war that gave them control of the system and made them vulnerable to lockdown.
Lockdown is a background simulation state, it has little to nothing to do with ganking.

 

[varonica]

This has been my favourite exploration CG ever. I wonder if fdev will extend it ... again

The only sad thing is they did not actually starting a one week CG for turning in bounties, that would have made it perfect!

 

[aRJay]

This could have a nasty side-effect. Next time an interesting CG might pop up, explorers will keep far away from it -> pretty sure that's the opposite of what the FDev want.

Or, that 'the community' gets organised and secures the system better?

Or that explorers will plan to get on the contributions/rewards list early before going for last minute big data haul.

 

[Screemonster]

The only sad thing is they did not actually starting a one week CG for turning in bounties, that would have made it perfect!

I'm not convinced it would have helped since the whole mess happened because system ownership changed hands midway through the CG.
Most CGs don't run long enough for this to happen - a single week isn't enough time to trigger war, run through the pending day and minimum four days of conflict, and for the aftermath of that conflict to have time to slap the new owner with any funny states.

Two weeks though? That's plenty.

 

[Flossy]

Maybe they checked their position and hit the wrong option to exit?

Of course, that is one possibility. Nearly done that myself with missions a few times.

Well, she mentioned the number of contributions dropped as well. Not just participants. So that is wierd.

Who's she? The cat's mother? LOL! Actually, seems to be only 6 contributors down over-all and I imagine their contributions will have come off the total - only 1,572 down.

 

[bradragon]

This could have a nasty side-effect. Next time an interesting CG might pop up, explorers will keep far away from it -> pretty sure that's the opposite of what the FDev want.

I'd say I'm probably in that boat.

I just started playing a little over a month ago. I got it free on EGS and enjoyed it a bit. Then I tried it in VR and was instantly hooked. I love exploration in games, and this is really just fitting the bill for me. I'm not interested in combat at all, and the amount of time I'd have to practice to git gud would sap all the fun out of the game.

I just went for my first trip outside the bubble. I was gone for a couple of weeks. I don't have the greatest ship, so I probably only went a few hundred LY out. I read about the CG and thought "hey, I should do that." I probably wouldn't have diverted from exploring to get the upgraded DSS, and who couldn't stand to get credit bonuses for stuff they were doing anyway? I say doing anyway, but once I heard about the CG I started scanning a lot more icy bodies than I normally would have.

I wasn't even aware of CGs before, so this was definitely the first one I was going to participate in. I was a handful of jumps away when it went into lockdown. So that was pretty disappointing. For the last several days I've just been farting around in some nearby systems. I'd really just like to get this data safe and turn it in and head back out. I should probably just give up and turn it in elsewhere, but I'd be pretty ed if it gets lifted tomorrow or something.

As it stands, I just find it super annoying. I was perfectly happy minding my own business and bopping along, and suddenly a shiny carrot was presented to me. I dropped what I was doing and started chasing it, only to have it taken away. I didn't actually "lose" anything, sure. And to long time players, the rewards are trivial. For me, this is one of my first impressions of the game. It feels capricious and poorly thought out.

I'll likely not participate in any CGs after this. Not out of retribution or spite or ragequitting or anything. Just because it turned what was otherwise being a fun way to spend my spare time into something I had to worry about. Better to just do my own thing, where I'm in control of my own timetables. That's the explorers way, after all.

 

[oztrich]

I'll likely not participate in any CGs after this. Not out of retribution or spite or ragequitting or anything. Just because it turned what was otherwise being a fun way to spend my spare time into something I had to worry about. Better to just do my own thing, where I'm in control of my own timetables. That's the explorers way, after all.

Ultimately you do you is the best advice I can give to anyone playing this game. There are lots of ways to play, and VR is a fabulous experience. Don't get too caught up about this CG in particular - the missed credits and module might sting for now, but if you get hooked and play long term is a relatively trivial amount.

That being said, it is a reminder that this isn't a solo game, even if you spend all your time in solo doing things that don't really interact with the underlying simulation. There are a lot of other players, and a whole depth of gameplay you're missing at the moment. You might never try them in the end, but they are there, and they can impact you. So it's on you to be aware of how you could be impacted.

I've played for 5 years now, and I still routinely find things that I didn't know before. Or, more often, have to look up how to do things that I'd forgotten about.

 

[DaggerSnake]

Even in Lockdown, why aren't there any missions being put out by any Factions that would either help or hinder? Is that just bad design in the game? Seems like just having people sit in the single planet res sites or the pirate activity sites is pretty boring gameplay. I'd like Brewer to have some onfoot raids or something to mix it up...(c'mon FDev)

On that note, if on the side of lifting the lockdown for Brewer. When turning in bounties at the Brewer megaship or the planet port, should we only choose the payout by Brewer and save the others. Wouldn't turning in all bounties be counter productive as some will just counter each other. I feel like everyone just sees 'wanted' and then shoots and turns in everything with the collect all button at the bottom, but should we be more selective?

At the end of the day, whatever side you're on. I think this kind of emergent situational gameplay is something that makes Elite so great.

 

[Hanerib]

I'd like Brewer to have some onfoot raids or something to mix it up...(c'mon FDev)

I could totally see Trailblazer Echo appearing over planetary settlements and conducting onfoot raids.

 

[Rainbro]

Even in Lockdown, why aren't there any missions being put out by any Factions that would either help or hinder? Is that just bad design in the game? Seems like just having people sit in the single planet res sites or the pirate activity sites is pretty boring gameplay. I'd like Brewer to have some onfoot raids or something to mix it up...(c'mon FDev)

On that note, if on the side of lifting the lockdown for Brewer. When turning in bounties at the Brewer megaship or the planet port, should we only choose the payout by Brewer and save the others. Wouldn't turning in all bounties be counter productive as some will just counter each other. I feel like everyone just sees 'wanted' and then shoots and turns in everything with the collect all button at the bottom, but should we be more selective?

At the end of the day, whatever side you're on. I think this kind of emergent situational gameplay is something that makes Elite so great.

1) stations owned by a faction in Lockdown offer no missions, because those ports are locked down. You may be able to find missions at other ports, though in general they may be an inefficient way to boost security compared to straight bounty hunting.

2) turning in all bounties is only counterproductive in terms of influence, as that is a zero sum game and everyone is fighting for the same share of influence. Security status on the other hand is per-faction and there's nothing to stop you raising everyone's security if you want the extra cash.

 

[DaggerSnake]

1) stations owned by a faction in Lockdown offer no missions, because those ports are locked down. You may be able to find missions at other ports, though in general they may be an inefficient way to boost security compared to straight bounty hunting.

2) turning in all bounties is only counterproductive in terms of influence, as that is a zero sum game and everyone is fighting for the same share of influence. Security status on the other hand is per-faction and there's nothing to stop you raising everyone's security if you want the extra cash.

Good to know, thanks.

I know there are no missions because of Lockdown status. I think that needs to be changed. At least some bounty hunting or pirate killing missions should be available for both in ship and on foot. I think it's just game design that needs an update.

 

[Brrokk]

Or that explorers will plan to get on the contributions/rewards list early before going for last minute big data haul.

Some of us did.

Re people who say that they're sick of scanning planets and now it all seems to be for nothing: don't get into that state. If you scan planets, only do it as much as you want. If you can't hand in data and don't feel like fighting while you have it, find something else you like doing instead. It's a leisure activity; do only what you enjoy in it. Grinding can ruin any game, not just this one.

 

[Rainbro]

Good to know, thanks.

I know there are no missions because of Lockdown status. I think that needs to be changed. At least some bounty hunting or pirate killing missions should be available for both in ship and on foot. I think it's just game design that needs an update.

Most BGS states are utterly inconsequential for day-to-day activities so I think it's cool that Lockdown actually has a tangible, significant impact. Really even that only matters if the faction owns every single port, though, which...oh. I hadn't checked. Brewer's conquest of the one remaining port in the system may have backfired.