Well, yes and no. 600 m/s may be less than what one might expect from size 7 thrusters on a medium ship. But there is the mass advantage. I didn't understand it at first either, thinking the shiop was broken when it could run 600 on size 6 thrusters as well. However, you can fly a really heavy build with this and still keep those 600m/s. No other ship can reach it's top speed on a heavy loadout.
New ship: Gutamaya Corsair
- Thread starter Rubbernuke
- Start date
I still haven't flown one, so this is a bit from the sidelines. But seeing their presentation, especially the stats they provided, and knowing Frontier's tendency to oversell things, what we seem to have now is pretty much what I expected - pretty much a replacement of the heavy multirole Krait, and a good one. Especially the old timers should know that the hype Frontier builds up rarely holds true to the full extent.
The mass thing seems like an advantage because it allows players to do things they usually wouldn't, like long ranging sensors without impacting handling. However the handling has been pre-nerfed with the expectation that the player will make use of the mass overhead. This removes the choice from the player of building light to get better handling, which imo isn't an advantage, just a removal of choice. So you might as well build it heavy since it doesn't make a difference.
Except that unladen with size 6A thrusters, it should match or surpass the Clipper, and it doesn't.
So, not going to let misinfo stand unadressed here.
1. Yes, at maximum potential the corsair is 43 m/s faster in boost, but lets not forget that the krait's maximum PRY is 52, 152, 17, while the corsairs PRY is 41, 135, 17 (the krait having a max pitch 20% higher). People who thought they could strip down their corsair and have a medium sized courier experince were shocked by the unchanging stats, as a consequence of it being able to maintain its maximum with a heavy build in combat. This is likely a result of them giving it a freakishly low hull mass so it has acceptable jump range while combat ready on a class 5 drive, but then they needed to cap its manueverability at its combat load so it doesn't go wild when unloaded. A horrible mess of design tbh.
2.&3. the shields are 12% stronger, the hull is 22%, while also being 18% taller for nose in firing, so easier to hit too in that instance. I don't know if this balances or justifies the increase, but it is what it is.
4. It trades a size 3 for a size 6&5 (It is afterall, a larger ship by size) and loses the ability to slf, which if they every fix the elite AI is equivalent DPS to a huge hardpoint that is constantly on target. Just because its currently bad doesnt change the actual stats and balance of slf if it works again.
5. Yes, its weapon convergence is to die for, because its sacrificed field of fire. Being a ring around the tubular hull of the ship means that if you are not on point with your aim, then gimballed and turrets arent able to fire, and that bottom one much more so. The ship is modeled by its artists and shiprites to be a high manueverability fixed weapons fighter, yet the programming and balance of how thruster classes work have nuetered it because they wanted to include class 7 as a selling point. If it was just class 6 it coulld have higher highs and an actual low.
I really do feel that you are selling top speed too much, fighting is conducted in the blue, so topspeed is mostly for breaking off engagements, which is useful but doesn't say too much about its combat abilities.
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I'm fine with how it moves because it is a very large medium ship. Yes it has class 7 thrusters, but it absolutely needs them, given that it's significantly heavier than my Clipper. What I struggle with is on the one hand it can skittle a deadly Anaconda in 15 seconds (first PA salvo, shields down to 37%; second salvo, shields gone; third salvo, multiple balls of thermal conduit cooked plasma obliterate the powerplant, destroying it).
Then this huge deathbringer of a ship is mass locked by a Cobra mk3.
Then this huge deathbringer of a ship is mass locked by a Cobra mk3.
Not sure how this is all "misinfo".
At least 50% of what you said agreed with my estimations (
) and much of the rest I didn't even say. Like point 1, I didn't even contend, I just said it's not "lacking agility". You just said it's got similar, if slightly worse, values than the Krait. I never said it was better than the Krait here. And apparently "selling top speed" is misinfo now? Why? Because you can't fight at top speed? Who said that?
Someone mentioned in another thread that ships have always had a hard boost speed cap that can never be surpassed. It's just that we very rarely stumble across it or, when we do, we rarely pay much attention. The Anaconda was provided as an example of another ship where you can see this maximum cap in action. (I have not corroborated for myself that this is indeed the case.)
The Krait Phantom is another and should also be significantly faster than 600 m/s if we're using the same logic.
At 600t a Krait Phantom hits its maximum boost of 591 m/s.
At 830t, A Clipper will do 603 m/s.
It is very much the truth. Some examples: Phantom, Mandalay, Dolphin have the absolute maximum boost speed they can achieve 591 m/s; Mamba, Orca and Clipper are 642 m/s; Python II is 583 m/s. Corsair is 600 m/s (2nd fastest medium after Mamba). Normally you can't get the ship's weight to or below the thruster minimum mass with a reasonable combat loadout so you won't see those numbers. Corsair and to an extent Phantom are exceptions (you can get a combat-fit Phantom to minimum mass if you stick with the factory default lightweight armor).
Now, the average speed under boost depends on each ship's boost profile and frequency. Some ships (like Phantom) only briefly touch the max speed before slowing down; others (like Mamba and PII) can keep that speed for a second. Generally it doesn't matter much since ships with strong boost profile tend to have wildly different max boost speeds or can't achieve the minimum mass—eg Phantom is always faster than combat-fit PII even if the PII has stronger boost profile.
And it is easy to explain if you accept that the "thruster" module is not the actual thrusters, but the propellant and power feed system for the thrusters. Bigger, better thruster module allows the actual thrusters (the bits you see on the outside of your ship) to work better and throw more remass out of the back of the ship at higher velocity. But the final performance of the ship is dictated by the thruster acceleration chambers and exhaust nozzles, which remain the same no matter what "thruster" module you slap on the ship. Hence why eg Mamba and FDL may be basically identical in all aspects, but Mamba is significantly faster in straight line, yet has worse turn rate.
The belly C2 hardpoint has a disappointing placement IMHO, they could fix adding a small block below the weapon so that it doesn't hit the ship itself.
It happened to us that even when firing packhounds from side C2 they hit the ship...
It happened to us that even when firing packhounds from side C2 they hit the ship...
That's become apparent while comparing my attempts at a Corsair build with my Clipper.
Basically, my Clipper (919t/6A DD5s) can do 481/609m/sec while my Corsair (901t/7A DD5s) can only do 473/600m/sec
It's a strange paradox.
The Corsair needs the 7As because it loses speed quickly (when fitted with 6As)when it's mass is greater than 630t but it never really makes use of the 7As well.
Basically, until you hit a mass of 930t a Clipper with 6As is going to be faster than a Corsair.
Period.
To me, it seems like it'd be reasonable for FDev to adjust whatever fiddle-factor controls speed so that the Corsair at least matches the way speed reduces relative to mass in the Clipper when fitted with 6A thrusters and then give it a slightly higher top-end when fitted with 7As.
Basically, I'd want to see a Clipper and Corsair manage the same speed (with the same mass) when fitted with 6As and the Corsair should be a bit faster than the Clipper (again, with the same mass) and have a higher top-speed when fitted with 7As.
Somewhat unintuitively, the Corsair is actually a slow ship compared to it's predesessor.
You might want to double check some of those numbers. A 900t Clipper isn't going above 595 m/s.
So all Corsair Forum-CMDRs should join the CG - which is monitored by „Gutamaya“ -, put Packhounds in the lower C2 and fire until bam. Gutamaya will not tolerate this dishonour in front of humanity and will immediately recall the ship and change it!
build for that:
Coriolis EDCD Edition
A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous
coriolis.io
If you want to think of it from an in-universe point of view, it may well be that ship speed is not solely a function of ship mass and thruster size. The overall design of the ship, particularly the thruster nozzles and a bunch of other things, can have an effect.
Even in real life just because the engines of an airplane may have more horsepower doesn't necessarily mean it will fly faster than another completely different airplane model that has less horsepower.
thanks for the comprehensive comparison. i fully agree with the conclusion. based on this id say corsairs top speed really could use some nudge up.
If the numbers weren't off.
Additionally, a 900t Krait Phantom won't break 550 m/s, but no-one ever complained about that.
Thing is, both the Clipper and Corsair are multi purpose ships and the Corsair is a much better one (more optional slots, more weapons, better convergence, carries more, lands on a medium pad). It even moves better when you factor in the considerably stronger vertical and lateral thrusters and the lack of drift.
My issues -
Whoever said this moves like the Clipper is just plain wrong (but I'm over that, you just need to handle the ship in an entirely different way).
Being able to shoot yourself with your own weapons is silly.
Being able to be mass locked by a ship less than 10% of the Corsair's size is silly.
It's the latter 2 that need looking at, everything else just makes it different to what we already have.
Yes, but if it can reach 600m/s on a really heavy loadout, then it should also be able to go much faster and be more maneuverable on a lighter loadout. That’s the part that doesn’t make sense.