New ship: Gutamaya Corsair

[Stealthie]

Someone mentioned in another thread that ships have always had a hard boost speed cap that can never be surpassed. It's just that we very rarely stumble across it or, when we do, we rarely pay much attention. The Anaconda was provided as an example of another ship where you can see this maximum cap in action. (I have not corroborated for myself that this is indeed the case.)

That's become apparent while comparing my attempts at a Corsair build with my Clipper.

Basically, my Clipper (919t/6A DD5s) can do 481/609m/sec while my Corsair (901t/7A DD5s) can only do 473/600m/sec

It's a strange paradox.
The Corsair needs the 7As because it loses speed quickly (when fitted with 6As)when it's mass is greater than 630t but it never really makes use of the 7As well.
Basically, until you hit a mass of 930t a Clipper with 6As is going to be faster than a Corsair.
Period.

To me, it seems like it'd be reasonable for FDev to adjust whatever fiddle-factor controls speed so that the Corsair at least matches the way speed reduces relative to mass in the Clipper when fitted with 6A thrusters and then give it a slightly higher top-end when fitted with 7As.

Basically, I'd want to see a Clipper and Corsair manage the same speed (with the same mass) when fitted with 6As and the Corsair should be a bit faster than the Clipper (again, with the same mass) and have a higher top-speed when fitted with 7As.

Somewhat unintuitively, the Corsair is actually a slow ship compared to it's predesessor.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

That's become apparent while comparing my attempts at a Corsair build with my Clipper.

Basically, my Clipper (919t/6A DD5s) can do 481/609m/sec while my Corsair (901t/7A DD5s) can only do 473/600m/sec

It's a strange paradox.
The Corsair needs the 7As because it loses speed quickly (when fitted with 6As)when it's mass is greater than 630t but it never really makes use of the 7As well.
Basically, until you hit a mass of 930t a Clipper with 6As is going to be faster than a Corsair.
Period.

To me, it seems like it'd be reasonable for FDev to adjust whatever fiddle-factor controls speed so that the Corsair at least matches the way speed reduces relative to mass in the Clipper when fitted with 6A thrusters and then give it a slightly higher top-end when fitted with 7As.

Basically, I'd want to see a Clipper and Corsair manage the same speed (with the same mass) when fitted with 6As and the Corsair should be a bit faster than the Clipper (again, with the same mass) and have a higher top-speed when fitted with 7As.

Somewhat unintuitively, the Corsair is actually a slow ship compared to it's predesessor.

You might want to double check some of those numbers. A 900t Clipper isn't going above 595 m/s.

 

[Surprize960]

The belly C2 hardpoint has a disappointing placement IMHO, they could fix adding a small block below the weapon so that it doesn't hit the ship itself.

It happened to us that even when firing packhounds from side C2 they hit the ship...

So all Corsair Forum-CMDRs should join the CG - which is monitored by „Gutamaya“ -, put Packhounds in the lower C2 and fire until bam. Gutamaya will not tolerate this dishonour in front of humanity and will immediately recall the ship and change it!

build for that:

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

 

[DjVortex]

Basically, my Clipper (919t/6A DD5s) can do 481/609m/sec while my Corsair (901t/7A DD5s) can only do 473/600m/sec

It's a strange paradox.

If you want to think of it from an in-universe point of view, it may well be that ship speed is not solely a function of ship mass and thruster size. The overall design of the ship, particularly the thruster nozzles and a bunch of other things, can have an effect.

Even in real life just because the engines of an airplane may have more horsepower doesn't necessarily mean it will fly faster than another completely different airplane model that has less horsepower.

 

[Shadowsnog]

That's become apparent while comparing my attempts at a Corsair build with my Clipper.

Basically, my Clipper (919t/6A DD5s) can do 481/609m/sec while my Corsair (901t/7A DD5s) can only do 473/600m/sec

It's a strange paradox.
The Corsair needs the 7As because it loses speed quickly (when fitted with 6As)when it's mass is greater than 630t but it never really makes use of the 7As well.
Basically, until you hit a mass of 930t a Clipper with 6As is going to be faster than a Corsair.
Period.

To me, it seems like it'd be reasonable for FDev to adjust whatever fiddle-factor controls speed so that the Corsair at least matches the way speed reduces relative to mass in the Clipper when fitted with 6A thrusters and then give it a slightly higher top-end when fitted with 7As.

Basically, I'd want to see a Clipper and Corsair manage the same speed (with the same mass) when fitted with 6As and the Corsair should be a bit faster than the Clipper (again, with the same mass) and have a higher top-speed when fitted with 7As.

Somewhat unintuitively, the Corsair is actually a slow ship compared to it's predesessor.

thanks for the comprehensive comparison. i fully agree with the conclusion. based on this id say corsairs top speed really could use some nudge up.

 

[Shurimal]

Think of Corsair's speed this way: it's a high torque, not high speed design. Like a 3 liter V8 sports car vs. 6 liter V8 diesel truck. Both may have 200 kW at tap, but one is doing 270 km/h, the other can manage only 120 km/h, but can do it while towing a 3 ton trailer.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

thanks for the comprehensive comparison. i fully agree with the conclusion. based on this id say corsairs top speed really could use some nudge up.

If the numbers weren't off.

Additionally, a 900t Krait Phantom won't break 550 m/s, but no-one ever complained about that.

Thing is, both the Clipper and Corsair are multi purpose ships and the Corsair is a much better one (more optional slots, more weapons, better convergence, carries more, lands on a medium pad). It even moves better when you factor in the considerably stronger vertical and lateral thrusters and the lack of drift.

My issues -

Whoever said this moves like the Clipper is just plain wrong (but I'm over that, you just need to handle the ship in an entirely different way).

Being able to shoot yourself with your own weapons is silly.

Being able to be mass locked by a ship less than 10% of the Corsair's size is silly.

It's the latter 2 that need looking at, everything else just makes it different to what we already have.

 

[Sublime]

Well, yes and no. 600 m/s may be less than what one might expect from size 7 thrusters on a medium ship. But there is the mass advantage. I didn't understand it at first either, thinking the shiop was broken when it could run 600 on size 6 thrusters as well. However, you can fly a really heavy build with this and still keep those 600m/s. No other ship can reach it's top speed on a heavy loadout.

Yes, but if it can reach 600m/s on a really heavy loadout, then it should also be able to go much faster and be more maneuverable on a lighter loadout. That’s the part that doesn’t make sense.

 

[AlSki]

So all Corsair Forum-CMDRs should join the CG - which is monitored by „Gutamaya“ -, put Packhounds in the lower C2 and fire until bam. Gutamaya will not tolerate this dishonour in front of humanity and will immediately recall the ship and change it!

build for that:

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

Interesting... I've been flying this and not noticed any mis-fires. The pack hounds are commonlly at the end of the pass, during the pass it's pulse & multis, then switch firegroups and "loose the hounds", so they stream after the target and keep up the attack while I'm turning. This means I'm firing at a ship above or above & behind, so it would put my hull directly in the firing line ??

CMDR AlSki - ship details | Elite:Dangerous | INARA

The companion site for Elite:Dangerous with the game database, market data, trade routes, outfitting, engineers, blueprints, crafting, Thargoid war, squadrons, logbooks, galleries, galaxy information and much more...

inara.cz

 

[Ydiss]

I mean, it did when everyone was under the assumption it would be faster than what it is.

Faster than 600ms?

It's not a small ship. Did FD explicitly say it would be that fast?

I see the word "assumption". What was that based on? Genuine question. If there was some misleading marketing, I'd understand that causing complaint.

But this is not a slow ship. If they made it faster and more agile.... How OP do you need it to be?

 

[Ydiss]

Yes, but if it can reach 600m/s on a really heavy loadout, then it should also be able to go much faster and be more maneuverable on a lighter loadout. That’s the part that doesn’t make sense.

So far as I know, only small ships that can house the advanced thrusters can achieve this. Maybe there's an outlier that can achieve it with silly outfitting, rendering it useless for anything but speed?

We've been handling ships based on hard limited top speeds, based entirely not on reality, since 2014. If this thing is hard limited, then I can't justify saying it shouldn't be. Because then nothing should be.

And... Balance. Why should a medium ship blow out smaller ships for speed?

It achieves high speed in a heavy load. This is advantageous enough given it's no slouch in any medium ship category, unless you absolutely must have an slf. Which not every medium ship has anyway.

 

[Starlanced]

Faster than 600ms?

It's not a small ship. Did FD explicitly say it would be that fast?

I see the word "assumption". What was that based on? Genuine question. If there was some misleading marketing, I'd understand that causing complaint.

But this is not a slow ship. If they made it faster and more agile.... How OP do you need it to be?

Just curious has anyone actually seen 600, I only ever see 599, I want that 1 m/s! It's mental thing!

I'd take a bit more agility over a bit more speed if I had to chose.

 

[Ydiss]

Someone mentioned in another thread that ships have always had a hard boost speed cap that can never be surpassed. It's just that we very rarely stumble across it or, when we do, we rarely pay much attention. The Anaconda was provided as an example of another ship where you can see this maximum cap in action. (I have not corroborated for myself that this is indeed the case.)

Yup.

So far, all I'm seeing is people wanting a medium ship to match and surpass small ships for speed.

We've had unrealistic, entirely hand waved, hard capped speed limits since before the game came out. Why is it now being questioned?

I'm seeing just a whole lot of people saying this needs buffs. It's just really weird.

 

[Ydiss]

Just curious has anyone actually seen 600, I only ever see 599, I want that 1 m/s! It's mental thing!

I'd take a bit more agility over a bit more speed if I had to chose.

Just rounding up for ease of conversation. Mine caps out at 595 or so.

At no point have I sat there and thought "wow, this thing is so slow, it needs a buff"

But it might be 600 hard cap or 599. I honestly think it's not important. Because every ship is hard capped. If they weren't, we'd have ships accelerating to untold speeds.

I don't get why this is the conversation we're having in 2025, this was done in 2014

Also, the ship doesn't need more agility or speed. It's good enough exactly as it is.

 

[mtfatboy3006]

The belly C2 hardpoint has a disappointing placement IMHO, they could fix adding a small block below the weapon so that it doesn't hit the ship itself.

It happened to us that even when firing packhounds from side C2 they hit the ship...

I put a turreted, long range thermal vent beam there and I am overheating constantly because the thing almost never fires in a one-on-one fight. If I can see the target, the bottom hardpoint can't. It's worse than putting a gimballed weapon on the huge hardpoint of an FDL. I'm undecided how to cope with the issue. It's annoying. I suppose I should put a third Imperial Hammer there and ignore the heat.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Just rounding up for ease of conversation. Mine caps out at 595 or so.

EDSY says 600, so I guess that is the figure people are mostly quoting. Also, does it reach the max speed at the first boost? Most ships don't, do they?

 

[mtfatboy3006]

Yup.

So far, all I'm seeing is people wanting a medium ship to match and surpass small ships for speed.

We've had unrealistic, entirely hand waved, hard capped speed limits since before the game came out. Why is it now being questioned?

I'm seeing just a whole lot of people saying this needs buffs. It's just really weird.

Again, because FDEV compared it with the large ship that surpasses small ships for speed.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Yup.

So far, all I'm seeing is people wanting a medium ship to match and surpass small ships for speed.

I'm seeing just a whole lot of people saying this needs buffs. It's just really weird.

It's not really weird if you consider yet again that the Corsair is the successor to the Clipper, a large ship that surpasses small ships while using class 6 thrusters. Context is important.

 

[Ydiss]

Again, because FDEV compared it with the large ship that surpasses small ships for speed.

Which large ship surpasses the courier or viper for speed?

 

[Ydiss]

It's not really weird if you consider yet again that the Corsair is the successor to the Clipper, a large ship that surpasses small ships while using class 6 thrusters. Context is important.

Did they say it would match its speed?

What is the maximum clipper speed? With a proper load. Genuine question, I've never flown one.