New ship: Panther Clipper

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
Rubbernuke said:
But then again (as I pointed out) it makes choices matter and possibly attenuate combat ships in certain modes. For example if the attacker opted for clean drives they would not be as fast, making the disparity between ships less but if hit by drag they could still deal with having the throttle jammed.
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You skirted around the comment elegantly. (Which I had already guessed would be the response - but teasing is still permitted here!)

The only time I have encountered the use of drag munitions is by another player (with me in a Courior that had just boosted to 777 m/s the drag delay was only academic in that case too!), I have never encountered a NPC, no matter what level, using that experimental, so I doubt the prospect would be of much concern whilst players may elect to not meet other players, either completely, or in chosen quantities.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Rat Catcher said:
You skirted around the comment elegantly. (Which I had already guessed would be the response - but teasing is still permitted here!)

The only time I have encountered the use of drag munitions is by another player (with me in a Courior that had just boosted to 777 m/s the drag delay was only academic in that case too!), I have never encountered a NPC, no matter what level, using that experimental, so I doubt the prospect would be of much concern whilst players may elect to not meet other players, either completely, or in chosen quantities.
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I don't want to be drawn into The Vortex[TM] so I was trying to be as general as possible. Frankly I'd love NPCs to use drag munitions (esp in PP2)- very few NPCs use effects and those that do stick to boring ones. But also I was thinking about making Open less intimidating, given some players give up when they see an FdL.
 

SergMx

SergMx
Morbad said:
Yes.

The reason it stays 600 is because it's difficult to reach the minimum mass rating of the thrusters. Still math.

My old Buick has enough power to get to 140+ mph, on level ground, before it's capped by air or rolling resistance. However, it also has a governor to limit it to 120mph, because that's already 35mph higher than any posted speed limit in the States, and because the tires start to melt much past that. I can reach that 120mph limit with a thousand pounds of cargo in the car, or with one of the doors propped open, because it has power to spare, but with the stock governor in place, it will not go past that limit no matter what is done to it's aerodynamics or rolling resistance. Doesn't mean it's defying any physical laws or any mathematical truths, just that the computer refuses to inject more fuel past a certain point.
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I would agree with you if we were talking about cars and not spaceships.
 

Morbad

Morbad
SergMx said:
I would agree with you if we were talking about cars and not spaceships.
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The exact same premise applies. The limits involved don't directly stem from natural law, but from arbitrary limiters. The car prevents fuel flow to the engine after a certain point. A velocity limiter in the game prevents, or counters, thrust after a certain velocity (relative to some arbitrary reference point) is reached.
 

SergMx

SergMx
Morbad said:
The exact same premise applies. The limits involved don't directly stem from natural law, but from arbitrary limiters. The car prevents fuel flow to the engine after a certain point. A velocity limiter in the game prevents, or counters, thrust after a certain velocity (relative to some arbitrary reference point) is reached.
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Sounds like a gunshot sound generator muffler in a vacuum.
 

Morbad

Morbad
SergMx said:
Sounds like a gunshot sound generator muffler in a vacuum.
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They are both handwavium.

However, there is a clear difference in how that handwavium is implemented.

The game isn't simulating sound traveling through vacuum or rarefied atmospheres anywhere. It has an entirely normal sound engine that applies some filters to some environments. In this case the depiction of 'simulated' sounds is achieved by mostly doing nothing.

The game does have an actual Newtonian physics engine underpinning most movement, and actively applies relevant forces to keep certain objects on rails. The forces are all calculated and applied in accordance with that physical simulation. The depiction of speed limits in space is achieved by doing a lot of extra work. This is more clear if one experienced the early game and actually saw all the increasingly heavy handed attempts required to keep players from regularly breaking those limits...which can still be broken in some niche scenarios by finding combinations of forces that exceed even the magical values the limiters can apply.
 

Starshot_Jigawatts

Starshot_Jigawatts
[VR] Mad Mike said:
from posts i have noticed from you i feel you want Elite to be more of a pure sandbox where you get the toys as easily as possible and you get to play with them. (a bit like minecraft creative mode or lego fortnite sandbox mode)

where as I would prefer elite to be more of a role playing game where i am a commander with very little with dreams of being the captain of a huge fleet of ships and the game for me isnt about having access to all the toys in the game - or at least that is only my end game goal.

for me the game is about the journey of how to get to that point, i want to try my hardest to earn stuff but at the same time i want that to be difficult and take time. i want to sometimes be stuck in objectively worse gear as i save up for better stuff. BUT it is by this metric where i believe i am not wrong in saying in many ways the game is worse today than it was in 2014, despite having a huge amount more "stuff".

skinner box? perhaps in part! but that is part of most RPGs where you do stuff to earn better stuff..
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No offense taken. I'm not sure that accurately defines me, but let's move past me for discussions sake:

The big issue with your approach is that FDEV would necessarily have to scale that journey individually for everyone based on available playtime, player skill level, and other variables. Which is impossible in the current environment as it's not a single-player RPG. How would they be able to do this and find that sweet spot for everyone? It doesn't seem possible unless I'm missing something.
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Starshot_Jigawatts said:
No offense taken. I'm not sure that accurately defines me, but let's move past me for discussions sake:

The big issue with your approach is that FDEV would necessarily have to scale that journey individually for everyone based on available playtime, player skill level, and other variables. Which is impossible in the current environment as it's not a single-player RPG. How would they be able to do this and find that sweet spot for everyone? It doesn't seem possible unless I'm missing something.
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Agreed I think you hit the nail on the head WRT it being a really big ask...... and indeed many expressed that concern right back that the start when the game was being pitched. We were essentially told trust us we have a plan!. and David Braben stating that whilst Elite would technically tick boxes to be an MMO, it was not one in his view and it certainly would not be like any other MMO which came before.

Me personally...... had i of had my way i would have had a single player focussed game like the previous 3 titles BUT allowed online groups where other people could bring in their pilot and do "stuff" and on logging out take some of that progress with them.

maybe there could have been a choice of shared universes with some carry over between members, and maybe the BGS could still have linked in for some form of player affected economy...... but imo making elite an MMO has massively limited the potential in so many areas (example.. initially the plan was space stations would have been destructible. they even have working emergency blast doors ... then FD realised if they did that certain organised groups would make it their mission just to make the universe burn, so instead they made everything of note indestructable.

i am digressing now, but TLDR you are right, its a massive headache to balance but FD were warned of this problem but they had a plan!. ;)
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
metatheurgist said:
I always try to keep my complaining on topic. :cool:
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[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
I wonder if FD will be tempted to inflate the Arx price for this ship, or extend its EA period due to how much this has been requested over the years?.

I will admit i am looking forward to getting my mitts on one, i love flying my T9 (/T10) and Anaconda they just "feel" right in terms of giant ships of industry.

I have only flown a cutter in beta (i dont have the rank) however truth be told i may skip it anyway, its far too pretty for my tastes for any role i would give it. i wont lie the panther is a little bit down that road but its not quite as bling as the cutter.

(the cutter as a mining / bulk trade ship for me would be a bit like using a brand new range rover to transport the horse crap from the horse pen to the muck spreader on a farm. it may be good at it but it just seems wrong.)
 
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