Patch Notes Update Elite: Dangerous 1.02 change log

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Michael Brookes

Game Director
Michael,
From my perspective the disparity is that right now pure grinding seems to be the only way to achieve higher tier items in the game. I would have expected other avenues, such as wide and prolonged (in lack of a better word) "story arcs" where there would be benefits such as a 'conda in the end. Yes, I know there are missions with monetary rewards, but frankly that is not very imaginative. For myself, I only have the time to be a casual gamer and can get in the odd hour or two every other day and a grinding-only level advancement where the only way up is through a calculation on credits/hour is very discouraging to my class of player.

I would like to be able to roam the galaxy with some chance goods in my cargo, stumbling upon an outpost that would pay "anything" for just that commodity. Right now it seems every commodity is a fixed price everywhere with at small percentage based priceband up or down based on demand in each station. Not talking about ships and outfitting which, for reasons I can not understand, are completely fixed throughout the galaxy (except for the Founders world I guess) and the only perspective there is you need to move about to find somewhere selling the darn thing and not be opportunistic if stumbling upon a great deal in some backwater system. I want to enjoy the galaxy when I have the chance and to experience the breadth of the game despite my limitation on playing time. I think it needs to be much less flat and linear for that to happen.

I certainly see that the rare commodities was broken and that (grinding) trading was too lucrative, thus necessitating changes. However, I think you also need to take into account that while slowing things down a bit for the heavy duty grinder, you bring it to a crawl, if not a virtual stop, for the casual player. I'm not asking you to reverse the changes, please improve them (AI trading et.al), but do not only concern yourself about the linearity of grinding because that will be to destructive to other playstyles. If the casual player is to keep coming back to ED she also needs to see the chance to have reasonable progession and yes, that means that it should be possible (gladly through other means that monitary) to acheieve a 'conda in much less that 250 hours of gameplay.

/E

Some fair points. Th epoint of the rares was that you could carry small amounts of them and as you travel they'd provide a nice per unit profit - this is still the case.

Missions also provide local opportunities to boost income while you're travelling. As does mining and exploration. Can we make thing better and add new ways? Of course and that's what we'll do. For us Elite isn't a game we release and forget, we intend to continue this development as long as we can!

Michael
 
I'd like to have a precise definition of 'personal quota' of rare items. Where do I find this magic number?

You do realise that you can experiment to find out yourself, right? It took me about two hours from reading about this change to figuring out what the change involved and figuring out what the bound is. I've even answered the question you asked. Why does everything have to be spelled out? Where has the sense of excitement in discovering something for yourself gone? Why are people so [censored] scared of figuring stuff out on their own?
 
Please, go out in one of the top end ships and try to do your experience again.
Maintenance costs are huge!
It's not about 'how to get up really fast', this discussion and concern is about 'how to maintain your big ship' since no earning mechanic scales with your ship.

But we got the answer to that already: "if the ship is not viable for your gameplay, then don't use it."
Acknowledged.
I'm just curious to see which gameplay style compliments the use of the big ships then.

I'm not disagreeing with you the maintenance costs are massive sure. I could have bought an ASP yesterday but the fitting and repair costs looked ridiculous. But that's kind of the point - the game does need all kinds of content from low end to mid and high end for different play styles - at the moment the game is a pretty bare bones framework on which to build, we're all ground floor investors in what we hope is going to turn out amazing one day but it was always a bit much to expect it a few weeks after gamma.

Its probably a bit silly to worry about high end income for maintenance on top end ships while there are some pretty essential issues that need addressing:

Piracy needs a point
Bounty hunting needs work.
More mission variety needed,
Mining needs content
Exploration needs work
More ships, more variety at scan points,
Heck the trade system isn't even working right!

There's an awful lot these developers need to worry about first before ensuring that rich large ship owners can comfortably afford to upkeep their vanity rides!

;)
 
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It can be which is why I mix it up with some exploration (to help cover fuel costs) and passing through the off anarchy to take on any pirates foolish enough to try their luck :)

I'm simply providing my personal example - I've stated that there is an issue that is being fixed. Once that's in then we can re-examine.

Michael

Here, here - that's been my approach for a while now as well. I first maxed out a Cobra, then saved enough to transition up to the ASP. I understand why the ASP was pared down, but it really should have a class 4 bay in place of one of the class 3 bays so it can be fitted with a class 4 Fuel Scoop. I don't disagree that the cargo capacity should have been trimmed so as to not make a hauler useless, but not remembering all the variable from Gamma - it now seems to have a little less outfitting variability. Still a great ride!
I fitted Advanced Discovery scanner and now have a rhythm of Starting at a station with a rare and plotting my course to the next rare depot while doing exploration along the way. It breaks things up nicely and adds to the cr haul. It also allows for me to blast the occasional pirate foolish enough to try.
That said - comms still needs fix/improve and standard commodity trading needs to be more profitable for those who carefully monitor prices. Profitable missions also need a small boost, and I'd like to see BB missions that require more than one jump. Overalll though, I'm having fun and will probably branch out into other strategies and ships once I get my ASP fully kitted with the 5Mil A5 Power unit and the likewise A5 FSD and enough weaponry to blast a viper into dust with a single shot. Damn good fun!
One last gripe. I would like to see the Outfitting menus be sorted and grouped by component rather than the current sort by price model. When you enter a well stocked station looking for a particular upgrade, it just takes too long to figure out where to find it. Group all the Fuel Scoops together, and so on with Shields and the rest. I'd like to see the same approach with the weapons, grouping lasers then cannons then missles, etc so you can narrow in on what you want and see the same type all together.
Cheers!
 
I have tested a Python taking different missions, playing about 2-4 hours per day. I had no problems making 6-7M Cr of pure profit taking into account that my ship was in top condition, all maintenance repairs were performed when required.

Can you describe how this was achieved? What commodities did you trade? What were the credit profits/ton(ne)? Sorry, but I have a hard time believing this if you're implying you did not touch rares and this was over the past few days. Trading broke at the end of gamma (or even with B3.9) and making ~2M/hr pure profit today in a Python is unlikely.
 
"we" . . . do not include me in your looney tunes conspiriloon theories pal.

er . . . any danger of any proof of this fact-free assertion?

No iodea, play the game and find out
Again, I find your use of the personal pronoun "we" . . . offensive, since when were you elected to speak on behalf of the hive-mind?[/QUOTE]

Im sorry if i offended you with that. But when i look back at gamma there was more than one massive money expoit ingame.
The was the fitting thingy, then with the rares (buyback higher than sell anyone?). So i dont say everyone who atm flys an type 9 or an Anaconda used that but an fair share did.
 
Some fair points. Th epoint of the rares was that you could carry small amounts of them and as you travel they'd provide a nice per unit profit - this is still the case.

Missions also provide local opportunities to boost income while you're travelling. As does mining and exploration. Can we make thing better and add new ways? Of course and that's what we'll do. For us Elite isn't a game we release and forget, we intend to continue this development as long as we can!

Michael
I like the ideas of the missions with a diverse rewards system vs the standard monetary/reputation rewards we have now. I think that's a pretty cool idea that'd add to the diversity of the missions/gameplay/universe. This has my vote! :)
 
I'm not disagreeing with you the maintenance costs are massive sure. I could have bought an ASP yesterday but the fitting and repair costs looked ridiculous. But that's kind of the point - the game does need all kinds of content from low end to mid and high end for different play styles - at the moment the game is a pretty bare bones framework on which to build, we're all ground floor investors in what we hope is going to turn out amazing one day but it was always a bit much to expect it a few weeks after gamma.

Its probably a bit silly to worry about high end income for maintenance on top end ships while there are some pretty essential issues that need addressing:

Piracy needs a point
Bounty hunting needs work.
More mission variety needed,
Mining needs content
Exploration needs work
More ships, more variety at scan points,
Heck the trade system isn't even working right!

There's an awful lot these developers need to worry about first before ensuring that rich large ship owners can comfortably afford to upkeep their vanity rides!

;)

I am agreeing totally with you as the points you just counted up are exactly the stuuf that will keep the 'biggies' going :)
 
Some fair points. Th epoint of the rares was that you could carry small amounts of them and as you travel they'd provide a nice per unit profit - this is still the case.

Missions also provide local opportunities to boost income while you're travelling. As does mining and exploration. Can we make thing better and add new ways? Of course and that's what we'll do. For us Elite isn't a game we release and forget, we intend to continue this development as long as we can!

Michael

...and after a few days things are going pretty well, so you really should be pleased (despite the whining) a lot of the "issues" people keep bringing up aren't problems with the game, but more their gameplay and aspirations. I hope that you guys aren't tempted to dumb things down as that will break the immersion for a lot of us.
 
what tf did i just read the last 10 pages. Level Up, Progression, Endgame, Grinding? Seems like many of you didn't inform themselves about Elite or the Vision the Devs had for E: D. And this is coming from a player who only can play 1-2 hours a day so it would take me a couple of years for the Anaconda. But why you think is the ultimate goal to fly an Anaconda? I promise you, once you get there you will start complaining about missing content or missing progression. Your complaints will always stay the same.

If someone thinks the way to get credits in this game is a grind or the goal is to fly the biggest ship ingame he simply is playing the wrong game. Sure, FD have to sort some things out and put some more mechanics in and I'm sure they will do over the next months but I don't think this will help you guys. Or am I completely wrong?
 
Your dismissing the problem. He said that there is no viable, fun, solution to mid/level (asp/type6) progression and up.

You answered by telling him then to move to a small ship.

The root of the problem is that to get beyond small ships your time investment is so long and filled with boredom that people wont do it. Its the BOREDOM that has people worried, not the total time investment. As I have said before, there is no viable way to progression that allows you to progress, WHILE being fun. Regular commodity trading is NOT FUN, REWARDING, or anything other but artificially induced teidum.

Jesus, He has answered youR question but you guys refuse to answer his. Michael asked how long do you think it should take to get a Anaconda? Can any of you whiners answer that question? If the game is too boring for you to get to fly a conda THEN DONT FLY A ANACONDA!
 
. . . But when i look back at gamma there was more than one massive money expoit ingame.
The was the fitting thingy, then with the rares (buyback higher than sell anyone?). So i dont say everyone who atm flys an type 9 or an Anaconda used that but an fair share did.

Bottom line . . . so what?
What's your point?
Someone's found and is using an exploit?

Breaking news . . . . the world's not fair . . . . more on page 13
 

Michael Brookes

Game Director
Dear Commanders,

We have just finished issuing credits refunds to everybody inconvenienced by this afternoon's server problem.

Commanders should find that their credits balance has just automatically increased to cover the value of all cargo scooped, missions completed, ships, modules and commodities sold.

For those missions which rewarded reputation instead of credits, we have refunded the purchase cost of the commodity units that would have been donated to the minor faction instead of awarding the reputation increase.

We appreciate your patience for the past 3 hours whilst we've calculated these refunds, so we have added a 20% bonus to all credits refunded which we hope will go some way to offset your time spent waiting.

Haulage cargo that has become stuck in your cargo holds because the mission is no longer present, should already have been cleared the next time you load into the game.

If you continue to experience troubles caused by this afternoon, then please log a support ticket in the usual way so that we can examine your circumstances individually.

Love

The Server Team
 
oh and why 100 hours?
because thats about when people will get board of a game and move on
IF you dont have some kind of end game content to keep people engaged

Well perhaps ED isn't for them then, Elite became succesful and needed many times 100 hours to get anywhere and that was a very minimalistic game. Immerse yourself in this and the upcoming Federation/Empire scrap as well as the pirates who are racking up cracking bounties in some places and you will still be on a learning curve come 100 hours IMHO
 
Please stop dodging the question.

What is the current Frontier Developments DESIGN GOAL of how quickly someone should be able to buy that ship?
For pity's sake, Michael, you're talking like a politician trying to be re-elected. Just tell us what the number is, in hours, from your design document. If you don't have a number, tell us that, too.

750 hours at one hour a day is over 2 YEARS of casual play, to get an Anaconda, using your hypothetical numbers. If that's within the realm of possible & reasonable, I'm very concerned, myself.

I'm not disagreeing with you the maintenance costs are massive sure. I could have bought an ASP yesterday but the fitting and repair costs looked ridiculous. But that's kind of the point - the game does need all kinds of content from low end to mid and high end for different play styles - at the moment the game is a pretty bare bones framework on which to build, we're all ground floor investors in what we hope is going to turn out amazing one day but it was always a bit much to expect it a few weeks after gamma.

Its probably a bit silly to worry about high end income for maintenance on top end ships while there are some pretty essential issues that need addressing:

Piracy needs a point
Bounty hunting needs work.
More mission variety needed,
Mining needs content
Exploration needs work
More ships, more variety at scan points,
Heck the trade system isn't even working right!

There's an awful lot these developers need to worry about first before ensuring that rich large ship owners can comfortably afford to upkeep their vanity rides!

;)

The big problem is that this is day 2 after release and very little is working to encourage (play the way you want) that is supposed to be the big idea behind ED. So far once you get a cobra III you slare stuck in it for quite a while. This would be ok really if that was all you wanted and thats all there was. They gave us more ships and say "You can't have it!" Hell I cant even buy a decent paint job for the Asp let alone the Python when (if) I can afford it. I only want the python because it is the coolest looking ship in the game.
 
Maybe...

Please, go out in one of the top end ships and try to do your experience again.
Maintenance costs are huge!
It's not about 'how to get up really fast', this discussion and concern is about 'how to maintain your big ship' since no earning mechanic scales with your ship.

But we got the answer to that already: "if the ship is not viable for your gameplay, then don't use it."
Acknowledged.
I'm just curious to see which gameplay style compliments the use of the big ships then.

Perhaps they introduced the Python too early?
Will it come more into its own when they start looking into developing the game further: 'multi-players on one ship' ive heard mention of previously. Development of missions or conflict zones.

Messages earlier on in this thread suggest up to a years game time to get a python, and its only been 2/3 days into that. It seems to me people are judging things a bit early here, and only basing it on whats here now. As far as I know the dev team aren't packing up and leaving the game as it is now, they're going to carry on adding to it.

Just my thoughts anyway. For me, I'm not envisaging the Python as the end game, as I don't think it is. I don't think any ship is.
 
Dear Commanders,

We have just finished issuing credits refunds to everybody inconvenienced by this afternoon's server problem.

Commanders should find that their credits balance has just automatically increased to cover the value of all cargo scooped, missions completed, ships, modules and commodities sold.

For those missions which rewarded reputation instead of credits, we have refunded the purchase cost of the commodity units that would have been donated to the minor faction instead of awarding the reputation increase.

We appreciate your patience for the past 3 hours whilst we've calculated these refunds, so we have added a 20% bonus to all credits refunded which we hope will go some way to offset your time spent waiting.

Haulage cargo that has become stuck in your cargo holds because the mission is no longer present, should already have been cleared the next time you load into the game.

If you continue to experience troubles caused by this afternoon, then please log a support ticket in the usual way so that we can examine your circumstances individually.

Love

The Server Team
Nice one. Thanks. :)
 
I'm sure most people don't think having the biggest meanest ship is the end-game(that's why we have combat ratings right?) I think there is some discomfort that the running costs for the larger ships require the player to spend more and more buzzing to and fro a trade route just to keep them flying.

Now ofc, you can say "get a smaller ship" but if owning a larger ship is financially untenable why even have it in the game?

I still didn't see much wrong with giving the player a way to earn about the same credits per hour doing long hauls as one can do doing short to and fro's.

If people waiting around in stations was the point of the nerf, then perhaps increasing supply and lowering profits would have been a better way as the credits per hour would be the same without the perception distorting lump sums at the end.
 
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