please don't confuse PvPers with griefers

[Soulstain]

i am one of those bounty hunters, but that does not seem to matter,
i am still getting branded as a griefer just because i am pro pvp.

Pro PVP?...lol. I hope you meant that you are pro pvp as opposed to against pvp?

Ganking newbies in sidewinders that are still learning how to fly does not make you pro. It makes you a bully and bullies tend to be people who only pick on the weak because they are scared of taking on anyone who can fight back. I could care less what you do out there really. The game seems the same to me in both solo or open. I can't say I see many people around. The mechanic of the game was not thought out well. If it was planned to be a true PVP game, we would have been forced into a much smaller universe. It appears by many of the threads that a huge segment of the playing community wants to be space truckers and left alone. I don't really know the answer but I do know the discussion will go on forever unless they implement a system like EVE where they have safe and hostile space with true ramifications for your actions. (sorry for mentioning EVE) The problem is, if people want to gank in the game right now there are next to NO ramifications. In almost all MMO's you would join a guild and the guild would take care of these so-called PRO PVP'rs. Seeing as you can't stay in safe space, call for help or depend on guild mates in this game you can see how it's a ganker's heaven. For now, just switch to solo temporarily and the griefer will get bored and move on. Not a great solution for you but the flip side is, some people want that danger to be out there, even from griefers. It gives you motivation to get a good combat ship and hunt them down in the future.

 

[Sanguisaevum]

No it does not.

It is not the same at all

A private group does three things...

Lets you play in the same Galaxy as everyone else.
Lets you play with people you would like to meet socially.
Lets you avoid players you dont want to meet socially.

Explain how it is not, please.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Pro PVP?...lol. I hope you meant that you are pro pvp as opposed to against pvp? Ganking newbies in sidewinders that are still learning how to fly does not make you pro. It makes you a bully and bullies tend to be people who only pick on the weak because they are scared of taking on anyone who can fight back. I could care less what you do out there really. The game seems the same to me in either solo or open. I can't say I see many people around. The mechanic of the game was not thought out well. If it was planned on being a true PVP game we would have been forced into a much smaller universe. It appears by many of the threads that huge segment of the playing community wants to be space truckers and left alone. I don't really know the answer but I do know the discussion will go on forever unless they implement a system like EVE where they have safe and hostile space with true ramifications for your actions. (sorry for mentioning EVE) The problem is if people want to gank in the game right now there are next to NO ramifications. In almost all MMO's you would join a guild and the guild would take care of these so-called PRO PVP'rs. Seeing as you can't stay in safe space, call for help or depend on guild mates in this game you can see how it's a ganker's heaven. For now, just switch to solo temporarily and the griefer will get bored and move on.

He meant pro as in "in favour for"

Players who want to be left alone have Solo mode, or Group mode. FD created these extra modes SPECIFICALLY for people who did not want to be bothered by other players being hostile in open mode.

Open mode has been designed so that randomly destroying ships DOES have repercusions.

 

[Amaze]

It is EXACTLY the same.

A private group does three things...

Lets you play in the same Galaxy as everone else.
lets you play with peopel you would like to meet.
lets you avoid players you dont want to meet.

Explain how it is not, please.

For one thing you need to meet or know the players first and then be accepted into the group.


If its the same then maybe you don't mind swapping and having
Open pve
Private group pvp

That would be the same for you?

 

[Sanguisaevum]

it is not because the private group needs invitation accepted.

If its the same then maybe you don't mind swapping and having

Open pve
Private group pvp

That would be the same for you?

It is not my fault that this is the way FD designed the three different game modes.

Open mode is for everyone who wants to play in it.
Private groups are for people who want to interact with others, but on their own terms.
Solo is for those who dont want to see anyone else.

That is simply the way FD designed the game. Deal with it, or don't... your choice.

But please stop complaing about it.

 

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[CylonSurfer]

No it does not.

It is not the same at all

The private group is "private" and needs invitation accepted.

If its the same then maybe you don't mind swapping and having

Open pve
Private group Pvp

that be ok with you?

Open play works as the devs intended it to. Why would someone move from a mode that works as intended and is enjoyable as it is to another mode? You are one of the few people with issues with open mode, maybe it should be you that moves if you do not enjoy it and cannot accept the risks. Seems a fair solution and fortunately the devs included other online modes for you to choose from.

 

[MadEye]

all the talk about "grief" come from ego maniacs who are bad at the game and yet are incapable of losing gracefully. what is mind blowing to me is that they still want to play in open mode for the status but cry a river over the one thing that makes open mode what it is, the threat of real players killing you.

You know I agree that it's not worth crying over, but calling someone who can't escape a fully decked out cobra with class A gear in a Lakon 6 a bad player is well... wrong.

That said, I play mostly open mode and so far haven't died at all despite being mostly a trader. I've had a couple PvP interdictions but they've mostly been fun. Of course, now that I am in a pure trading ship I can't see the next one being very fun for me. I'm not gonna feel abused about it, but I may move to solo mode because traders in this game simply can't defend themselves and grouping is too broken for us to set up escorts.

 

[Sanguisaevum]

You know I agree that it's not worth crying over, but calling someone who can't escape a fully decked out cobra with class A gear in a Lakon 6 a bad player is well... wrong.

That said, I play mostly open mode and so far haven't died at all despite being mostly a trader. I've had a couple PvP interdictions but they've mostly been fun. Of course, now that I am in a pure trading ship I can't see the next one being very fun for me. I'm not gonna feel abused about it, but I may move to solo mode because traders in this game simply can't defend themselves and grouping is too broken for us to set up escorts.

Quick tip...

Fit all your trade ship's hardpoints with seeker missile racks. If you are interdicted, boost... fa off, spin, lock on, fire.

I guarantee the agressor will think twice about continuing that particular engagement. Missiles are expensive but they are an effective deterent!

 

[TaoZero5]

It is not my fault that this is the way FD designed the three different game modes.

Open mode is for everyone who wants to play in it.
Private groups are for people who want to interact with others, but on their own terms.
Solo is for those who dont want to see anyone else.

That is simply the way FD designed the game. Deal with it, or don't... your choice.

But please stop complaing about it.

People who play Player Killer (and there are some) are those "people who want to interact with others, but on their own terms" - but they are the ones who tell me, time and time again, "If you don't like it then play in Solo." and that's the thing I'll complain about.

Honestly, ...... I don't know, what kind of ruthless strategies could I employ? Any ideas?

Just the more I read this thread and the kind of people I'm playing this game with, the more I want to be the seal clubber they despise. .......

FYI: I have garnered infamy in the past on other servers for games I have played since I tend to be one of the worst of the worst. I play by the game's rules, but I know how to really make people miserable! ....... -sigh- I've been waiting for a game like this for a while.

The only question now is if I want to do this by myself or should I start up another group dedicated solely to these aspirations or ideals.

When I suggest you start a Group, I kinda hoped it wouldn't be in Open Mode but I kinda hope it will, too.

 

[BacchusZA]

Im sure this has been said already, but I'm going to weigh in anyway.

I just had an incident in open play, where I was interdicted by another player. I won't name them, but I *will* criticise most strongly their actions, especially where it comes to bounty hunters.

The crux of it is simple, and you can stop reading after the next sentance if you will.

Put simply, if the person you are interdicting has not committed a crime, then what the hell are you doing interdicting them? If you are not equipped to perform a kill-warrrant or cargo bay scan WHAT THE HELL BUSINESS DO YOU HAVE CONDUCTING INTERDICTIONS?

Stay at nav beacons, or trawl USSs', and hunt for bounties and pirate there. Leave other ships the hell alone. Without the apropriate eqiupment you are not equipped, and have no legal mandate, to assess or act on their legal status.

The longer version is that I was in an unarmed trade vessel, carrying 100% legit cargo, in a democracy with in place law enforcement when a player commander decides to interdict me. And I'm gathering that it's now pretty much impossible to evade interdictions, at least from players, because as much as I kept that blue circle centered, I could not get away.

Said player then demands that I heave to for inspection. Never mind that said player is a private citizen, and has has no legal right to conduct interdictions, has no right of stop and search.

Said player does not scan me, not for outstanding warrants or illegal cargo, just demands that I stop so that I can be searched.

Now, should I trust to the goodwill of somebody who acts in such an extra-judicial fashion? Without warrant or mandate?

Of course you don't. You have to assume this person is a pirate, and as such evade.

Which I subsequently do, but am immediately pulled out of SC again, by the same commander.

Who then proceeds to open fire, again without conducting a cargo or kill-warrant scan, on the sole justifucation that I refused to submit to his *illegal* stop and search.

So I'm now sitting stranded with shot out drives, with a clean legal status, and with a cargo hold full of legal trade goods that are going to cost me around 700k to replace on top of the 250k or so insurance cost. All because some trigger-happy yahoo thinks they have a mandate to conduct illegal customs inspections, and who either can't be bothered to, or isn't equipped to, conduct a scan of their target, to determine if it's justified or not?

To his credit, after some voiciferous protest from my side, the commander offered to make good the damages he'd caused, but by that point it's too late. My drives are dead. I'm stranded where I am. How is he supposed to make good the damage done?

Bounty hunting is a legit career path. Been there and done it. And there's a definite place for bounty hunters in the big bad galaxy, because the cops can't be everywhere.

But bounty hunters NEED to accept and appreciate that they have a responsibility to confirm they have a legitimate target in sight before opening fire on targets at whim. You are NOT a law enforcement officer. You do NOT have a mandate to attack civilians without a wanted status.

That isn't bounty hunting. At best it's piracy, whether you intend it as such or not.

If you're doing it carelesley and as a norm, as was evidently the case in my recent experience, you're a griefer, plain and simple.

 

[Sanguisaevum]

Im sure this has been said already, but I'm going to weigh in anyway.

I just had an incident in open play, where I was interdicted by another player. I won't name them, but I *will* criticise most strongly their actions, especially where it comes to bounty hunters.

The crux of it is simple, and you can stop reading after the next sentance if you will.

Put simply, if the person you are interdicting has not committed a crime, then what the hell are you doing interdicting them? If you are not equipped to perform a kill-warrrant or cargo bay scan WHAT THE HELL BUSINESS DO YOU HAVE CONDUCTING INTERDICTIONS?

Put simply... the very fact that FD have not limited this type of behaviour, indicates that it is acceptable in open play, and not considered "griefing" by them.

If FD decide that this kind of behaviour is unnaceptable and tantamount to "griefing" they will change the game mechanics to make it impossible.

Until then... People can legitimatly interdict you at will in Open play. Fact.

Your options are...

Switch to solo / group to avoid them.
Kill the player
Put up with it.

From a bounty hunters perspective... (yes, i am abounty hunter, but i focus mainly on NPCs) you are clean only in the current system.

The various factions pay me a GREAT deal of credits to dispense justice in thier name. Just because you are clean in the current system, does not mean i cannot profit from your destruction in another system.

When i interdict a player (happens occasionally) if they run when i tell them i am going to crime scan them... i ASSUME they have a bounty to hide and will persue them RELENTLESSLY and disable them if needed in order to scan them.

 

[ianw]

Switch to solo / group to avoid them.
Kill the player
Put up with it.

You forgot one - it is possible in open with a little awareness to throttle back and exit supercruise as soon as you see a hollow blip - before they can even resolve a scan on you...

 

[BacchusZA]

You miss the point.

The complaint isn't about the mechanic.

Player (or npc) pirates need to be able to interdict ships. Player (or NPC) bounty hunters need to be able to interdict ships. It's intrinsic to their function, and both activities are legitimate, though the bounty hunter has the burden of justification to satisfy. The pirate who interdicts me is taking their life in my hands, especially if I'm in my Cobra. The Bounty Hunter won't have an issue, because I'm doing nothing that warrants a bounty and attack.

Player responsibility is my issue.

If you can't assess legal status, either of the ship or cargo it's carrying, then DO NOT SHOOT AT THEM.

That's my complaint.

Simple fire discipline.

Do NOT shoot until you KNOW you have reason to do so. Else you become what you are ostensibly hunting.

 

[Amaze]

Open play works as the devs intended it to. Why would someone move from a mode that works as intended and is enjoyable as it is to another mode? You are one of the few people with issues with open mode, maybe it should be you that moves if you do not enjoy it and cannot accept the risks. Seems a fair solution and fortunately the devs included other online modes for you to choose from.

A multi player mode that ends up with the majority of players in solo or private groups
is not actually working well and I doubt that it was intended to be that way.

 

[darkcyd]

A multi player mode that ends up with the majority of players in solo or private groups
is not actually working well and doubt that it was intended to be that way.

That is exactly how this game seems to be intended. It launched with no coms and no grouping functions.

How can you say this is anything but a single player game with the added benefit of getting ganked every once in a while.

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

Absolutely, yes. But do you see the point i'm making that the PvP player who only, ONLY goes after other players, is not playing the game, as you say, 'as it is designed'. Now then, further to this, because this is what the PvP player is doing he is changing the amount of times a PvE player can 'reasonably' expect to be attacked by another player.

And yes, i know he will be attacked by npcs too but before you say that there is no difference, we both know that there IS a difference because it is that 'difference' that makes the PvP player go after players.

I'm playing the game the way it is meant to be played by choosing to go after players only. If it wasn't meant to be that way then I wouldn't be able to do it. Hahaha, wow that is awesome.

 

[eeps]

do you play open at all? commanders everywhere

No Sir, not any more, and very happy for it too. The CMDR s I have come across in the Mobius group have brought a number of experiences with them, questions, advice, help, and a heavier set of firepower right when I thought it was over.

I wouldnt mind some 'normal' pvp interaction, and I pop in every now and then to remind myself that I'm not a great pilot, only costs me 4k to find that out, and I probably make someone feel all powerful and stuff. But the attitude is the limiting factor for me, pvp players generally (not all) contain a level of aggression of self importance that I just cant stomach to be honest.

edit: this thread demonstrates that clearly enough I guess, some pvp guys need to realise its not just pvp some players avoid, its the pilot

 

[terminatahx]

I'm still trying to figure out why this "greifing" drama even matters. Last time I checked ED is a game. There is no honorable combat, you either live or die. No disrespect to anyone, but whining about how aggressive other players simply exposes the worst group of crybabies I've seen here.

If you play online, you should expect to kill or be killed. Period. If your feelings or "sense of honor" is disturbed, go solo. Seeing a bunch of grown men crying about combat, when they chose to operate in that arenas is beyond immature. I'm an average pilot at best (but improving) right now. And I enjoy the sense of risk of online. If you interdict me, I'll either turn and deal with you, or bail out. Those are the rules of engagement, period. I'm not opening up some stupid comms channel, this isn't a dance.

Yeah, I know, I'll get negative rep..sorry to touch a nerve.

 

[BacchusZA]

From a bounty hunters perspective... (yes, i am abounty hunter, but i focus mainly on NPCs) you are clean only in the current system.

The various factions pay me a GREAT deal of credits to dispense justice in thier name. Just because you are clean in the current system, does not mean i cannot profit from your destruction in another system.

When i interdict a player (happens occasionally) if they run when i tell them i am going to crime scan them... i ASSUME they have a bounty to hide and will persue them RELENTLESSLY and disable them if needed in order to scan them.

And guess what. With that assumption, YOU are the criminal, not the person trying to get away from you.
YOU are perpetrating an unprovoked and unjustified attack.

If you do not KW-scan me, and I do not have a bounty in the current system, then for all intents and purposes I have NO bounty. For the simple reason that you do not KNOW what my bounty status is. Because you have NOT scanned me. And as such, I am a legit, honest, 100% above board civilian that you have now harassed and perpetrated a hostile act against (the interdiction) for no better reason than "I felt like doing it, not because I had any reason or evidence, Your Honour. But I'm sure they was guilty, Your Honour, honest!"

If you have not scanned me, either in terms of KW scanner, or cargo scanner, WHY ARE YOU SHOOTING AT ME FOR TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM AN UNLAWFUL ATTACK?!

Be a pirate to your hearts content. Yank me out of SC & shoot me full of holes if I don't want to stop, or can't get away. Now *THAT* is legitimate. You're trying to steal from me, and are honest and above board about it. *That* is a gameplay and role-play mechanic at work. *THAT* is the price of doing business, as a trader, in open play.

And I'll take my chances with that, and will not once complain about a *pirate* who decides to interdict and attack me.

But do NOT claim to be a bounty hunter, and then try to say "Oh well, I didn't scan them, and I acted like a pirate, and acted hostile towards them, and then had to shoot because they tried to run away from an unsanctioned and illegal scan and search, and I didn't know any better, and have no idea why they didn't want to submit to an unsanctioned and illegal scan and search"

Guess who is at fault here, the trader or the "bounty hunter".

Pro tip. It's not the trader.

It's very simple - check your bloody targets before you shoot.

 

[eeps]

Yeah, I know, I'll get negative rep..sorry to touch a nerve.

aw .. the negative rep is all part of the griefing love. and we're all creating drama because space can get so lonely sometimes, especially when theres not plot driving you along..