External View [A definitive discussion]
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Yes. When it comes down to it space sims have very few differences so playing this in extrernal view would be very much like playing Eve, might as well play that then if you prefer external view because a) that game was designed for external view b) Elite was designed for in-cockpit view. External view will also give an advantage and so force us who like to play this like the original Elite (i.e. in-cockpit view) to either accept a handicap or as will happen, force us also to play in extrenal view to even the playing field.best argument I have ever heard - are you serious? Really?
The only external view I would accept would be in space-stations to admire your ship...but not while flying
Now I understand where you're coming from, thanks. While I don't agree that it will give a significant advantage to anyone and I`m sure the Elite would benefit strongly from a external view I can agree that we need at least free in station view to admire our ships.
Perhaps some sort of tethered spacewalk mode could be introduced. As for why you would be out there, I dont' know.. maybe you could effect repairs to the hull or something..
EVA is planned as far as we know.
Well as it stands you will get a big advantage with external view because I can't see behind me in my cockpit but in external view you would be able to, which is a huge advantage in a dogfight. You could also combine it with removing flight assist and aiming behind or to the side while moving forward, something which would be quite easy with external view but very hard with in-cockpit view.
True but even now I have all seeing radar that shows every ship around me - in dogfight, I practically only look at the radar at the middle, not out of my window.
But that was discussed earlier here and no one convinced anyone so I will just agree to disagree.
But that was discussed earlier here and no one convinced anyone so I will just agree to disagree.
A good solution/compromise would be to disallow outside view in combat (i.e. in the only situation where "even playing field" matters). A bad solution would be to implement outside view w/o any restrictions, to not implement the outside view at all, or to limit the outside view possibility only to docks/space stations (that would be almost completely pointless as you already can see your ship in Outfitting).
Original Elite was followed by Elite II and Elite III which both featured outside view, and so it has become as much a staple of the series as any other gameplay feature. I still cannot fathom how anyone could seriously think removing outside cam completely from Elite is a good idea. I used to switch it on often to admire the view of the nearby planets and my ship. I didn't "play" the game in this mode, mind you (nor would I want to) - just used it to admire the scenery so to speak.
Fortunately, the devs seem to be heading in the right direction on this one (fingers crossed), and we can both be satisfied.
Well I'll agree with you that it will enhance the game, obviously I also want to admire my ship flying around but yes if..IF...they find a way to not make external view work while in combat..then yes, I will agree with it as it only anhances game play. Though, as far as I'm aware this game is based off of ELITE (the original), not Frontier (Elite 2). Though anyway, as I said if they do it like you mentioned I would agree with that in fact would be happy as it will only make it better..but while in combat? Nope...that's the reason I hated EVE that and no cockpit view. I'm a simmer type ...
wow, I thought the SWTOR forums were the worst ever for the 'in my head I am the lead designer for this game and when I say no to your idea it means no' crowd, do us all a favour and leave now wil you, please?
in my WWII spitfire I can see behind me in a dogfight, in fact I have two methods of doing so, 1) I can turn my head and 2) I can look in the mirror - now seriosuly explain to me how in 3300 neither simple option results in winning a dogfight?
An external view for screenshots and videos is realy an absolute requirement imo, without it sales of skins and decals will be greatly reduced, why buy if I cant see?
Clearly any feature such as this needs to not provide any advantage or realism breaking mechanic during game play, but seriously this is 3300, dont you think I woudl have non tethered drones around my ship feeding back live images - I can do this in my garden today with a £30 quad copter. As for any advantage - everyone has access to the same thing, how is everyone being able to do the same something any form of advantage? - thats like saying you cant use a joystick or rudder pedals, or your brain!
|I think the FD devs wil be more than capable of working out some very simple solutions to providing a high quality facility to view our ships externally in all he glory of the galaxy they have so lovingly crasfted, to not do so would be pretty dumb really.
in my WWII spitfire I can see behind me in a dogfight, in fact I have two methods of doing so, 1) I can turn my head and 2) I can look in the mirror - now seriosuly explain to me how in 3300 neither simple option results in winning a dogfight?
An external view for screenshots and videos is realy an absolute requirement imo, without it sales of skins and decals will be greatly reduced, why buy if I cant see?
Clearly any feature such as this needs to not provide any advantage or realism breaking mechanic during game play, but seriously this is 3300, dont you think I woudl have non tethered drones around my ship feeding back live images - I can do this in my garden today with a £30 quad copter. As for any advantage - everyone has access to the same thing, how is everyone being able to do the same something any form of advantage? - thats like saying you cant use a joystick or rudder pedals, or your brain!
|I think the FD devs wil be more than capable of working out some very simple solutions to providing a high quality facility to view our ships externally in all he glory of the galaxy they have so lovingly crasfted, to not do so would be pretty dumb really.
Well, to be fair if you understand what 3rd person view means, then you'd realise external view is the same thing, regardless of the terminology used. Fair enough, the implementation can vary, but that is what I was saying. If it could be used in a fashion that wouldn't allow for any more awareness than cockpit mode, then as I said, I'd be all for it.
Keep the playing field level and I could care less how you choose to fly.
People here claim that "Third view gives an advantage because cockpit only players can not look over there shoulder"
Really?
It is the year 3000+ and we have to do without back view/outside view because Elite wants to be mmo now and we have to restrict field of view to make it more challenging?
Why not remove the scanner so you have to curve around to see who shoots at your butt?
Turn the screen black during docking so docking becomes a real challenge?
Deploying hard points now gives you random surprise weapons so you have to change tactic on the fly, it is more challenging!
Hard to resist not to make fun of some points people bring up here.
Really?
It is the year 3000+ and we have to do without back view/outside view because Elite wants to be mmo now and we have to restrict field of view to make it more challenging?
Why not remove the scanner so you have to curve around to see who shoots at your butt?
Turn the screen black during docking so docking becomes a real challenge?
Deploying hard points now gives you random surprise weapons so you have to change tactic on the fly, it is more challenging!
Hard to resist not to make fun of some points people bring up here.
From the technical perspective you are absolutely right. Yet in "games" terminology 3rd person view most often stands for the arcade Over-the-shoulder look, where you have the look move around with your character.
That is why I'm trying to make people aware, "external camera" for most of us does not mean a combat 3rd person view, that would gain whatsoever advantage (as well as I doubt it would be more advantageous than the scanner, but that's just a viewpoint).
The part where I want to start banging my head at solid things is, when people actually oppose an external view for the sake of opposing it... as in external view in "Solo mode" would make a lot of people happy!
I can accept, that people fear for their combat scores if a tactical view or a 3rd person view with HUD and aimpoints would be introduced, ok, especially after the stupid challenge from Frontier for the first guy to get Elite rank!
But this childish "no,no,no, because I don't like!" approach of some people here is more than ridiculous, don't you agree?
Then, there is the argument about the unfair difference between a keyboard and mouse and a full blown HOTAS, TrackIR and Voice Control. People don't think THIS is a level playing field with similar chances for everyone?
So if TrackIR and 50 buttons in thumbs reach is not an "unfair" advantage, how is an external camera in Solo mode?
Who says this is based on reality? If that's the case, lots of things don't make sense in game. For example sound...there is no sound in space so if this was based on reality the ships would be totally silent not sound like a train on the Picadilly Line.
This game was sold on the fact that first and foremost it is a cockpit, flight-sim like game just like the original game this is based on and the fact that it was released that way without external view. So if they do add it in they have to make sure they don't alienate most of their customers which let's be honest, must like the idea otherwise they'd be off playing a game with external views like Eve.
Oh and if you don't like the idea that this game is a cockpit, flight-sim like game which the original Elite was, you should take your own advice and leave through the door marked "EVE FRIGGING ONLINE!"
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Oh and I like people who buy a game then attempt to change the game into something they envision for it (which was never intended by the devs and in so doing turn it into a completely different game) by whining and complaining. If you want external views, play Eve. Simple. It's not that different. Why do you want to spoil this game for people who like space flight-sims? You have a choice we do not... If you do manage to change this into an Eve-alike then I will dump it and wait for Space Citizen until some other bunch of Space Stnuc come along and whine and complain to put in external views in that too. So in the end we will all be playing slightly different versions of Eve. Welcome to globalisation brought to you by the masses of sheepeople who hate individuality and anyone with a different opinion to theirs. "You cannot like different things from me because that makes you an individual and that's frowned upon". Go away.
Oh and proof if you ever did need it that external view is a HUGE advantage over cockpit view in dogfighting is: War Thunder. Being a flight simmer, I play that sometimes and you have a choice of cockpit or external view. Not surprising everyone chooses external because of the HUGE advantage it gives you in FOV (field of view), so people like me who like cockpit view because of the simming aspect are forced to play with external view just to compete..which is why I don't play it much anymore if at all.
Oh and proof if you ever did need it that external view is a HUGE advantage over cockpit view in dogfighting is: War Thunder. Being a flight simmer, I play that sometimes and you have a choice of cockpit or external view. Not surprising everyone chooses external because of the HUGE advantage it gives you in FOV (field of view), so people like me who like cockpit view because of the simming aspect are forced to play with external view just to compete..which is why I don't play it much anymore if at all.
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No, you're missing the point and making a nonsense argument to defend your position. The fact is, and it doesn't take much brain power to work this out, is that external view gives you a WIDER FIELD-OF-VIEW over someone in a cockpit and so a HUGE advantage. That's just for static external view and we all know it wont be so zooming out will give you an even greater advantage as will swivel from side to side. So yeah it will basically make cockpit view obselete and who in their right mind would use cockpit view and play at a disadvantage which would then turn this into another version of Eve. So the solution is: GO PLAY EVE.
What part of these "I WANT EXTERNAL VIEW NAO!" bores do they not understand there is already a game out there for them? EVE EVE EVE that's the game for you...not Elite!.
Anyone want to wager 95 per cent of people who want external views do not even own a joystick.
We doing this again? Cool. Lemme grab the popcorn and get comfy. This is bound to get entertaining till it dissolved into a trench warfare snipefest and gets locked
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...just look at my signature... and the original problem is, that Frontier decided to base ALL their advertisements, teaser and newsletters on external videos and screenshots! No wonder people buy Elite and wonder how to do that!Anyone want to wager 95 per cent of people who want external views do not even own a joystick.
If they would have honestly said "No external views, First Person Only" at time of Beta release, I guess I would have passed... and no EVE or Star Citizen is no game for me! I'm a Sim addict, playing DCS World since years!
If Infogrames and Particle Systems still existed, and they would decide to make I-War 3... well, that would be it, but unfortunately we are stuck with Elite Dangeropus.
And it is not about changing YOUR game experience in any way, it is about living the credo of Elite: Dangerous - "Play your way" (http://www.elitedangerous.com/about/playyourway/)
So why is it a problem for anybody else, if I get an external camera in Solo mode???
And don't bring on that "it is development effort" crap... the external camera is in the game from the start, just because of the whining about "unfair" advantages it was not bound to a key and locked away, which actually is additional effort, just to please the kill-count junkies.
You are aware that EVE is an space rpg where stats and tactic, not twitchy fingers count?
That Elite always had external cam (who was always no help at all for fights, at least not for me)
Frontier even had an flyby cam...
Original elite had back and side views (back was either your mining or an laser to burn tailchasers)
So all thise stuff about "changing elite from what it was not intented to be:" is rather funny
That is the big problem, they are turning elite into an space dogfight game.
Good old days where it was exploring, trading and lasercook a few pesky pirates.
Now it " My pimped cobra can gank your phyton in 1.4375465 minutes !"
My expectation for Elite Dangerous does not really go up.
When do people learn that online games are different to offline games and that an "streamlining" does always happen, the pewpew becomes focus for the designers because that sells best...
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