External View [A definitive discussion]

An External View yes or no, Multiple choice

  • Yes: an External View for Combat

    Votes: 28 8.8%
  • No: This will break immersion fo me

    Votes: 117 36.6%
  • Yes: I want to know from where I am being attacked from

    Votes: 16 5.0%
  • No: the Scanner is all you need.

    Votes: 103 32.2%
  • Yes: a Simple external ship viewer None Combat

    Votes: 161 50.3%
  • No: Keep everything within the ship

    Votes: 105 32.8%

  • Total voters
    320
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Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Heck it could reverse your controls randomly for all I care, as long as its not pvp useable :p

I said it before to someone else: you and all the 3rd person views you want VS me stuck in my cockpit with my trackIR, and not as good as you in combat, I win. Anytime. In-cockpit radar and impacts indications + Track IR? Bring it on.

For what it's worth, TrackIR is quite a huge advantage right now. Anything to say about that? Should I switch it off if we ever meet? :D

I have never, and for the sake of efficiency will never use any external view in a dogfight. That's pure nonsense, and if you think otherwise, again you have not played much games of this type before. And I do not mean arcadish Xbox games.
 
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I said it before to someone else: you and all the 3rd person views you want VS me stuck in my cockpit with my trackIR, and not as good as you in combat, I win. Anytime. In-cockpit radar and impacts indications + Track IR? Bring it on.

For what it's worth, TrackIR is quite a huge advantage right now. Anything to say about that? Should I switch it off if we ever meet? :D

I have never, and for the sake of efficiency will never use any external view in a dogfight. That's pure nonsense, and if you think otherwise, again you have not played much games of this type before. And I do not mean arcadish Xbox games.

Heh, no trackIR is nothing for pvp like 3rd person view is for pvp. You just sound inexperienced in this sort of thing.
 
Heh, no trackIR is nothing for pvp like 3rd person view is for pvp. You just sound inexperienced in this sort of thing.

Since you are so experienced, care to give me an example of that? A game at least similar to Elite where 3rd person view beats Tir in a dogfight? A game where the cockpit gives you a clean indication of your opponent position on a radar, as well as impacts points?
 
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Heck it could reverse your controls randomly for all I care, as long as its not pvp useable :p

Why not pvp usable? What's the problem?

I might want to get a shot of my ship along with my friends at the same time?

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Heh, no trackIR is nothing for pvp like 3rd person view is for pvp. You just sound inexperienced in this sort of thing.

If you don't think 3rd person offers a tactical advantage, you are not a very good pvper.


Have you considered making a post without making a snide comment?
 
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Why not pvp usable? What's the problem?

This is why I make snide comments. 3rd person view should not give an advantage in pvp. It does in games because its eyes in the back your head and a bigger FOV. This is bad for a game based as a pilot in the cockpit.
 
it's clear that more than 50% of players here wants external view (some like it is on FSX/Xplane/DCS like sim and others with a RP solution like a drone, mounted cameras...)

I think that the easiest solution for FD is to unlock the view and have a classical system view. Added a more sophisticated way to display external view will take more time to develop, more bug to find ...

If player don't want externals view, so just don't use them... If all players can use it during battle, all players will be equals.

NPC already cheat :)
 
For example, multiple hostiles are attacking and you are taking fire from the rear, if its at an angle the best move would be to burn at an opposite angle, but if its directly behind you that would be suicidal.
Theoretically.There will not be enough time to change the views and fight simultaneously,in a coordinated movement.

----
NeilF
Have you considered making a post without making a snide comment?
Impossible. :D
I know him relatively well... Phier is well-known for his strong opinions on many technical things - but- what really matters- he is a very helpful guy ;)
 
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I'm sure this has probably been suggested in this zillion page thread but what about a limited function "vanity" mode? Something to check out your ship, take some pics, make some vids but with only basic controls. It could also be limited to non-combat situations. Heck you could even require it to be done only in solo mode.

Would this be a fair compromise?
 
Well, apparently for some people external view in solo mode means advantage in farming wanted NPC - this is no joke this was posted here multiple times.
The best idea apart from the drone is external non combat view IMO.
 
How about we just remove the silly multiplayer mode, make Elite Dangerous an proper game with content instead costly server sucking up manpower and have external views? I would buy an paintshop or more than one then!
If the problem is the pvp thing just remove it!
Because right now it is me an cockpit, the ship i sit in i see on a few pictures, partly, obscured by menues.
That is kinda like the first verion where you had to fill in the polygons with your fantasy.... Oh wait... we had left right and back view then, so even more.. we could even stick lasers there too!
Tailturrets!!!!!

Really if the only problem with 3rd person and rear view mirror (and bottom for landing) is the pvp thing remove it, i do not need it at all, the only time i played in multi was by accident.
 
@Bambi - re. defining 'immersion': when looking at your ship in 3rd person, you're thinking "This is my ship. I'm in there" - the "I" is an avatar, a projection of self. Being able to view the idiosyncracies of your ship makes it more personal to you - all the little scrapes and scorches, customisation etc. It's an extension of and statement about yourself - or at least, the avatar you're projecting into.

You don't look at your ship in 3rd person and think "that's somebody else's ship" or "someone else flying my ship". So your argument about immersion being exclusively first person, and third person being inimical to that perception of embodiment, is flawed. Yes, you can proffer a definition of the word to connote being totally subsumed within a virtual avatar, a kind of virtualistic monism that completely replaces reality, but this ideal is currently impossible and so the practical limitations it entails are ultimately an insurmountable source of dissonance with this perfect paradigm - in short, until we have Matrix-like VR you'll always have real-world interferences in your VR experience.

Given such practicalities, embracing the crossover elements and accomodating the use of imaginative play to smooth over the inevitable cracks, makes for a more immersively engaging experience than one that tries to restrict in-game freedoms in a futile and self-defeating attempt at denialism of the overriding reality our VR experience remains fully dependent upon..


tl;dr - it's a game, silly.
 
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My question to you all is - would you buy Elite if it has a external view from the beginning or not?

If the external view were as described by developer Sandro, Yes!

If the game can be played, in any way other then No.

I have little interest in playing an arcade version of Elite.
 
If the external view were as described by developer Sandro, Yes!

If the game can be played, in any way other then No.

I have little interest in playing an arcade version of Elite.

You would pass on the biggest, most massive space game of the year just because of that? The huge galaxy, trading, fighting, all the game parts? I really don't think so ;) And if so that really sad.
 
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How about we just remove the silly multiplayer mode, make Elite Dangerous an proper game with content instead costly server sucking up manpower and have external views? I would buy an paintshop or more than one then!
If the problem is the pvp thing just remove it!
Because right now it is me an cockpit, the ship i sit in i see on a few pictures, partly, obscured by menues.
That is kinda like the first verion where you had to fill in the polygons with your fantasy.... Oh wait... we had left right and back view then, so even more.. we could even stick lasers there to!
Tailturrets!!!!!

Really if the only problem with 3rd person and rear view mirror (and bottom for landing) is the pvp thing remove it, i do not need it at all, the only time i played in multi was by accident.

To some extent, I actually agree with this. So far I've been playing open since beta, and exclusively so since day one release, and I rarely encounter anyone alive. Then, the level of interaction is limited to "hey-hey". I befriended a few, but the lack of proper instancing makes it impossible to play toghether, outside of the chat system. So despite being in open, I'm alone 99% of the time. I realise it's not the case for the PVP fans out there, who will always find someone (and even them are struggling), and also it could change as more players are coming in, which I absolutely look forward too. But the ratio solo play/MP play right now, and certainly for some time to come, does make the MP feature look like a disposable gadget.

The game sacrifies so much important, cool, and sometimes mandatory features (not only external views) to such a clunky MP experience, that I wonder more and more what it's all about, in fact. I love ED, but right now it sits between two chairs. An uncomfortable position.
 
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External view control EVA & stations only

This is immersion View attachment 7258

Personally, I don't necessarily want immersion. I want fun & interest.

For example, if every 6 hours in ED I had to play a mini-game of having to go for a zero-G bowl movement, this could be considered as making the game far more immersive. But it would need to be a pretty good mini-game IMHO to merit its inclusion.

In short, do I want to just through lots of hoops to see my ship and the ED Universe better? No! I want to just be able to see them easily and in a nice friendly fashion. Maybe that's not immersive, but I know I'll get enjoyment out of it.

And ultimately the "break immersion" argument completely breaks down anyway. If you believe it break immersion, don't use it!
 
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The game sacrifies so much important, cool, and sometimes mandatory features (not only external views) to such a clunky MP experience, that I wonder more and more what it's all about, in fact. I love ED, but right now it sits between two chairs. An uncomfortable position.

My thought is that it is very very hard to make ED an multiplayer in the "classical" sense because it has no skill systhem, does have nothing that "channels" the crowd like for example EVE or WoW.
If Frontier wants multiplayer something people flock to then they need to put incetive into meeting at places, have admins present 24/7

Most developer overlook that part, no mmo has become big without costly staff on all hours of the day, and if in the back ground.

We should have an better trade systhem, stations who are mills of ligh seconds out of entry points have the same prices as stations who are 70ls away from the sun, why go to faar places if not for some delivery job where one has overlooked that fact?

There is great great visuals, but it is all clinical right now, the devs should have groups from the player base take over sectors of space and personalise them, build space stations and play with clutter inside, write stories, what not, there should be an massive crowd based work to make places special.

Richt now achenar and sol have the same stations pretty much, only the name is different.

Ross 128? is an prison systhem, it looks as any other systhem, there is nothing special than that it says so, there are no stations who have special gear, all computer created randomnes, you have seen 50 or let it be 200 but then it is all the same in green.

ED has the foundation to be great but with the scale of its sandbox the devs need to find reliable people, and many of them, in the player base and have them create special places, make places look special, an sort of building set from the computer randomized station building set, clutter collections and so on comes to mind, people make stations and an dev looks at it, says its made ok and puts it into the game, starting out from the central systhems more and more stations become special and have personalitie.

There are many people who are good at writing, so solar systhems can get better text in info beside a few stats.

When you travel around you have the feeling you are actual going to places, not fly 100 lightyears and then dock back at the same station with another name tacked onto the entry.

ED is great what there is, the mechaniks, the sights, everything really really great but it is right now without personalitie and with its scale the devs can not really add much at that given itsd size, so it has to be volunteers who make places special.

Better bulletin systhem, jobs for freighter, we need more of them, as soon one is above 100 cargo capacitie most jobs on bulletin board are not much interesting, i make more grinding up and down the same line of stations with less effort, so as soon standing is allied with an place there is no point in making them for any gain, and to be honest, it would be really cool for traders to travel from port to port and take on paid cargo, that is what freighters do.

Precious metals should be rather rare, as soon one is past like the second million there is no reason to transport bulk, so i was last on an agricultur station to fetch some orders, but never for trade, that is in the higher cap always high tech and refining/extraction

so we need reasions to move bulk items.

ED is great but it is for my opinion right now only an core that needs personalising if it wants to be an viable mmo or even solo player.
 

almostpilot

Banned
How about we just remove the silly multiplayer mode, make Elite Dangerous an proper game with content instead costly server sucking up manpower and have external views? I would buy an paintshop or more than one then!
If the problem is the pvp thing just remove it!
Because right now it is me an cockpit, the ship i sit in i see on a few pictures, partly, obscured by menues.
That is kinda like the first verion where you had to fill in the polygons with your fantasy.... Oh wait... we had left right and back view then, so even more.. we could even stick lasers there too!
Tailturrets!!!!!

Really if the only problem with 3rd person and rear view mirror (and bottom for landing) is the pvp thing remove it, i do not need it at all, the only time i played in multi was by accident.

Although I agree and I wish it happened, I doubt the FD change something. I think the FD took some wrong decisions along the way, including the lack of outside view of your own ship, where any combat simulator better and more realistic than ED, has it.
 
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