PC Gamer Article on 1.2 Wings

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Just want to clarify something, I can purchase 3 type-9's, protect them with my Conda and each ship will haul cargo for me?

I don't think so, no. Your other ships would be safely tucked up in their storage dock while you are out gallivanting in your Anaconda. Drone ships under player authority would make the game tend to executive control rather than direct control - something that DBOBE has said previously that he does not want to see happening in the game.
 
Any chance to see more player interaction int his update (beside grouping and sharing bounty, which is already great btw) :

- credit transfer between players ?
- shared missions ?
 
Just wanted to point you towards Sandro's response to this in the article:

'While the coordinated firepower of a wing will be much increased, the four-pilot limit has been designed to prevent a squadron from owning a system. "It allows multiple wings to be present at any given location and it prevents a single wing from being able to completely dominate through sheer numbers," says Sammarco of the pilot cap. "There’s always room in any star system for more players than any single wing can accommodate, but at the same time, a wing of four still represents a significant increase of capability over a lone vessel provided players cooperate effectively."'

Might give you a better idea as to why the decision was made.

But what's wrong with CMDRs taking over a system and creating a conflict or battle royale ? For some this is what they want, and if it's a backwater system then why not ?

I think this has more to do with the technical limitations of instancing than anything else. With only 32 players in the same instance at any one time even coordinating a multi-Wing group will face limitations if you all wanted to enter the same system to face off to another group. It doesn't have to be like "the other game" because this isn't executive management of resources and ships but players do want to stretch their wings (pun) with Elite, Frontier should at least let them try. A lot of the true multiplayer elements will always be constrained by the instancing design in the short/ medium term. I hope I'm wrong because I'm really looking forward to forming a Wing and seeing what happens.
 
I must admit I had dreams of Elite going towards more Eve style player-controlled systems (as there are near infinite systems so player systems would not hamper lone players too much). If that's not the devs vision for the game though, fair enough as there will be other games that fill that niche.
The big issue I could see about player controlled space is that a large fleet would just camp the systems with the most Rare/ Resources. Could you imagine if LAve and the other high pop systems with the most rares was all under one groups control? It would be game over for a lot of us.
 
There are no persistent objects like traders or pirates, it is all chance and numbers.

That doesn't bother me too much (what's the point of calculating all the extra stuff you'd need to do it properly when space is so ruddy gigantic?). I just don't like how poorly hidden the randomness is! I think it would be better to see the USS on a system map and target which ones to go for based on their location, movements within the system, how much heat they're generating etc...
 
So is Wings another mode?
Or
Is it Part of OPEN?

If the latter, then I expect some extreme buffing of Medium - Large ships! So they can stand a chance of surviving a pirate wing for more than 10 seconds!
 
It is already working like that. USS are just points in system where you check out something interesting, be it pirates, or traders, or something else. There are no persistent objects like traders or pirates, it is all chance and numbers.

Sorry but I have no idea which bits of my post you are agreeing/disagreeing with.
 
Just wanted to point you towards Sandro's response to this in the article:

'While the coordinated firepower of a wing will be much increased, the four-pilot limit has been designed to prevent a squadron from owning a system. "It allows multiple wings to be present at any given location and it prevents a single wing from being able to completely dominate through sheer numbers," says Sammarco of the pilot cap. "There’s always room in any star system for more players than any single wing can accommodate, but at the same time, a wing of four still represents a significant increase of capability over a lone vessel provided players cooperate effectively."'

Might give you a better idea as to why the decision was made.

Thanks for the information sir.

Are you in a position to clarify how easy it will be for players to find and form wings?
i.e. Will there be some sort of LFG system, like a new bulletin board, where players can use templates to request being invited into Wings, or a list of open and available wings to join?
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
But what's wrong with CMDRs taking over a system and creating a conflict or battle royale ? For some this is what they want, and if it's a backwater system then why not ?

I think this has more to do with the technical limitations of instancing than anything else. With only 32 players in the same instance at any one time even coordinating a multi-Wing group will face limitations if you all wanted to enter the same system to face off to another group. It doesn't have to be like "the other game" because this isn't executive management of resources and ships but players do want to stretch their wings (pun) with Elite, Frontier should at least let them try. A lot of the true multiplayer elements will always be constrained by the instancing design in the short/ medium term. I hope I'm wrong because I'm really looking forward to forming a Wing and seeing what happens.

DBOBE was asked the following question at EGX 2014:

"Question: Someone asks: Will there be a corporation, guild or clan system in Elite: Dangerous?

DBOBE: Right, there is the sort of friends alliance but at least to start we've not got guilds and clans. I think what we don't want is this, the whole game to become ossified very quickly where the, you know, you have to join one or the other to have any fun gameplay. I do like this it's essentially it's the game of the freedom of the individual the ability to just go out and do your own thing. You know the, guilds can very easily become almost like mafiosi saying don't travel here or we'll kill you. So I think it is some thing that we will look at and are looking at but friends groups which are very much more constrained I think are great, but when it becomes much beyond that it becomes a bit - just doesn't feel right."

From the quote, not only are large social groups a cause for concern, it also touches on territorial control (not in a positive way). Sounds a lot like wings are the fundamental social construct that are in DBOBE's vision for the game.
 
OK lets hope is in a good way ...



I really hope this is not increasing the extent to instances are tailored to individual players/groups as that would be a big backwards step IMO.

I also getting a sinking feeling that FD are very wedded to the transient USS idea as a content device. They suck (USS's that is - not FD generally).

I avoid them like the plague - don't think of them as content. We're inside instances, inside instances... at least there's some game left on the outside (trading/exploration) - Is it technically impossible to make these things seamless? - The game just appear to get more and more fragmented.
 
The big issue I could see about player controlled space is that a large fleet would just camp the systems with the most Rare/ Resources. Could you imagine if LAve and the other high pop systems with the most rares was all under one groups control? It would be game over for a lot of us.

Wouldn't it be an excuse to form a squadron and remove them from the system, then leave a Wing behind to help the local NPC police force keep the peace ? Think of the RP value alone and the cooperation, protecting a trade route, getting kudos from traders and new players. So much of the scale of Elite could be lost to confining a lot of it to harder USS missions and small Wing teams with small scope. Even a fleet removing the local Mafia faction and allowing the other minor faction to build up could be possible, then maybe system expansion too. Safety in numbers, many hands make light work, too many cooks spoil...oh wait, don't want to use that one...
 

atak2

A
The big issue I could see about player controlled space is that a large fleet would just camp the systems with the most Rare/ Resources. Could you imagine if LAve and the other high pop systems with the most rares was all under one groups control? It would be game over for a lot of us.

That could definitely be an issue - I'm not after hampering lone players. I think in that situation with such a large universe the traders etc would move away from those systems and hopefully another system would be discovered with those resources and trade would be pushed to a different area which would make the universe a shifting thing. Old trade routes given up for new trade routes depending on the circumstances.
 

SlackR

Banned
I hope there's going to be some way to differentiate the extra dangerous USS sites from normal ones otherwise Nobby Nomates over here is going to find his backside handed to him on a platter on a regular basis.

I'll fly with ya dude! That's if you don't mind inebriated wingmen! ;)
 
It sounds pretty good, am looking forward to the Wings update. :) We need Group missions too. I guess that's planned when they update the missions system.

.... or multiples of four - there would be the possibility for more than two wings to exist in the same instance - possibly as many as eight (if everyone's connections were up to it).

They should double the limit so we'll have 4 wings per instance of 32 players. Wing VS Wing battles are more interesting with more players, because it increases the possible tactics and ship combinations.

DBOBE was asked the following question at EGX 2014:

"Question: Someone asks: Will there be a corporation, guild or clan system in Elite: Dangerous?

DBOBE: You know the, guilds can very easily become almost like mafiosi saying don't travel here or we'll kill you. So I think it is some thing that we will look at and are looking at but friends groups which are very much more constrained I think are great, but when it becomes much beyond that it becomes a bit - just doesn't feel right."

I don't see how large social groups could be a problem. The galaxy is gigantic with enough space for Guilds and important HUBs can have increased NPC protection when needed. They didn't completely rule this out yet, it may be added down the line.

Elite should let players be free to group up and play as they like in the sandbox.
 
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Really pleased that the wings will be formed and disbanded ad-hock in the same way that squads are created in Battlefield series. I was hoping that they wouldn't be persistent groups that you would have to keep moving around when people weren't on line. Initially was a bit meh towards only 4 but thinking about it, its all good.
 
They could double the limit and still have 4 wings per instance of 32 players. Wing VS Wing battles are more interesting with more players, because it increases the possible tactics and ship combinations.

We need missions for Groups too. I guess that's planned when they update the missions system.

They are separate Wings though, and therefor no guarantee you'd ever be in the same instance as your counterpart Wing.
 
http://www.pcgamer.com/elite-dangerous-12-preview-flying-together-with-wings/

This is really interesting. Plus more information than has been shared on the actual Forums.

But only 4 players to a Wing ??? Begs the question: what's the point really if you can't create larger groups ?

Only 4? Then it's not a Wing; it's just a bunch of peeps flying around. :p

In Commonwealth countries a wing usually comprises three squadrons, with several wings forming a group (around 10 squadrons).
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_(military_aviation_unit)
A squadron in air force, army aviation, or naval aviation is mainly a unit comprising a number of military aircraft and their aircrews, usually of the same type, typically with 12 to 24 aircraft, sometimes divided into three or four flights, depending on airc
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squadron_(aviation)

One squadron comprises 12 to 24 aircraft, in other words, there should be an upper limit of at least 120-240 players per Wing. :D
 
The wing of 4 is a great opportunity for collaborative haunting and pirating.
On the other hand I am somewhat concerned about the 4guys gang scaring traders in a specific system.
Hope Frontier will have apropriate answers to that threat. I don't wanna be forced into group/solo play.
So for lone traders hiring NPC wings and/or much more intense activity of System Security is to take place also.
(Only.... hiring wings will cool down my profits 8-( )

Regards,
Miklos

I'm hoping that forming an adhoc wing is goin to be fast and easy, so a bunch of random bounty hunters in a system could quickly group up to tackle them.
 
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