LOL I know its kind of a joke, and like I have said a few times before, THEY COULD HAVE A SERVER TOGGLE SWITCH TO DISABLE OUTSIDE VIEWS-LIKE IL2/CLIFFS OF DOVER- so why disable a whole awesome feature like that, when it can be toggled with a switch easily. Problem solved. Server has cockpit only? Great! Join it or not. At least we have a choice..
External View [A definitive discussion]
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I guess there is one other option - your view is inside your avatar. If you want to see you ship from outside, you personally leave the ship and go for a space walk.
That would stop anyone gaining any advantage from this (you cant fight or do anything from outside the ship) and keep within the immersion requirements. In fact I wonder if there might be some manual repairing possible if you go somewhere quiet and start fixing things on the hull.
I don't think there'd be a need to actually implement a player model for this, just provide a countdown timer to get in and out of the ship and then simulate movement with a slow camera and weak lateral thrusts only.
You would of course be very vulnerable to attack while doing this...
Toad.
That would stop anyone gaining any advantage from this (you cant fight or do anything from outside the ship) and keep within the immersion requirements. In fact I wonder if there might be some manual repairing possible if you go somewhere quiet and start fixing things on the hull.
I don't think there'd be a need to actually implement a player model for this, just provide a countdown timer to get in and out of the ship and then simulate movement with a slow camera and weak lateral thrusts only.
You would of course be very vulnerable to attack while doing this...
Toad.
There's no need to be so confrontational about it. It would be more helpful to ask why this feature might impede their immersion and then attempt to address it in a rational, CIVIL manner.
So to get to that:
To those against third-person view on the basis of 'immersion', and the breaking thereof, could you perhaps explain why this is so? Does the existence of the feature itself cause an issue for you, or is it something else. If so, why? If not, what does cause the issue?
Also...
Another obligatory "Make it a feature of the groups system" post. It's not an issue if everyone in the instance agreed beforehand that it's okay.
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Or maybe make it a piece of equipment. We're going to have equipment to take 'photos' for spy missions, right? Make those cameras controllable drones. To be able to use 'third-person' you have to have the requisite equipment already mounted.
It's the same thing as that EVA suggestion in the post above, expect you're using a piece of equipment instead of getting out of your ship. A piece of equipment that is otherwise a part of normal gameplay.
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Dude, calm down.
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I'm all for an external view but I do think the immersion concerns are justified. They should be addressed as suggested in the OP.
Having seen the "hangar module" in alpha 3 I think I don't like it. It DOES take you out of the first person perspective and after all these discussions it seems kind of jarring. It will be even more problematic with a VR headset. Of course it's just alpha but I'd be curious how the hangar view feels like with a OR atm?
VR / OR should be the benchmark for the game as a more seamless experience won't hurt normal monitor gaming, but it will hurt when you suddenly get disembodied and floating in a hangar.
It should either be a virtual screen or the player itself walking around the hangar (on a walkway in the air).
Having seen the "hangar module" in alpha 3 I think I don't like it. It DOES take you out of the first person perspective and after all these discussions it seems kind of jarring. It will be even more problematic with a VR headset. Of course it's just alpha but I'd be curious how the hangar view feels like with a OR atm?
VR / OR should be the benchmark for the game as a more seamless experience won't hurt normal monitor gaming, but it will hurt when you suddenly get disembodied and floating in a hangar.
It should either be a virtual screen or the player itself walking around the hangar (on a walkway in the air).
Interesting, because I was positively surprised that in the hangar we would get to see the ship from the outside. I hope they simply make that optional, not disable it altogether, but I still think it would be a shame to have all these gorgeous spaceship models that you'll see only from afar for the vast majority of the time, and your own ship not even once from the outside.
Here comes my new spontaneous idea for a "drool at your own ship" solution: why even show actual in-character live feed from the exterior? Why couldn't we have a 3rd person view that is, from an in-character perspective, just a 3D rendering before a generic starfield background, which we can rotate and zoom around to our hearts content, and even play around with stuff like opening and closing weapon bays, cargo scoops, heat vents etc.
As an example what I am thinking of, for all those who have played Star Trek Online, remember the ship customization screen? You had the ship in a generic window and could freely rotate and zoom. Something like that, with the customization controls replaced by "toggle weapon bays", "toggle heat sinks" etc. button to see those animations in action.
This could even go as part of a general ingame "ship database" feature where all ships are available for a view like that, plus of course your own ship with its actual equipment. This could even have all the ships' stats and some lore.
P.S.: The "meet someone else to look at ships from the outside" proposal that's going around here also completely ignores players that intend to go strictly single player.
I don't like peanut butter and jam sandwiches... Doesn't mean I would stop all those people who do enjoy it from partaking
I simply don't go there myself!
My idea is that we would have ability to deploy bot camera that tries to follow our ship automatically but we could control it and decide from what angle it shows our ship. We would have about 2 cameras.
But it would be risk to deploy them while in combat. Because for example if missile would explode near them, they would be destroyed.
They would be rebuyable in stations/docks.
Also that bot cameras would not have any ability to show crosshair/reticle ect. It would be only to watch our ship maybe to inspect hull damage.
It would also be used for tactical purposes. For example pilot in silent mode deploys botcam hiding behind asteroid wanting to sneakpeak what is happening behind that asteroid. AH 64 longbow style but much better
But overall I am against 3rd person view (with crosshair etc.). It makes things to easy. And in games I like challenges.
But it would be risk to deploy them while in combat. Because for example if missile would explode near them, they would be destroyed.
They would be rebuyable in stations/docks.
Also that bot cameras would not have any ability to show crosshair/reticle ect. It would be only to watch our ship maybe to inspect hull damage.
It would also be used for tactical purposes. For example pilot in silent mode deploys botcam hiding behind asteroid wanting to sneakpeak what is happening behind that asteroid. AH 64 longbow style but much better
But overall I am against 3rd person view (with crosshair etc.). It makes things to easy. And in games I like challenges.
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I just don't get all this convoluted agonizing and rationalising.. I don't like playing GTA in 3rd person, so i don't. But i still like to use it occasionally. It doesn't give any combat advantage - some players will have wider FoV's anyway...My idea is that we would have ability to deploy bot camera that tries to follow our ship automatically but we could control it and decide from what angle it shows our ship. We would have about 2 cameras.
But it would be risk to deploy them while in combat. Because for example if missile would explode near them, they would be destroyed.
They would be rebuyable in stations/docks.
Also that bot cameras would not have any ability to show crosshair/reticle ect. It would be only to watch our ship maybe to inspect hull damage.
It would also be used for tactical purposes. For example pilot in silent mode deploys botcam hiding behind asteroid wanting to sneakpeak what is happening behind that asteroid. AH 64 longbow style but much better
But overall I am against 3rd person view (with crosshair etc.). It makes things to easy. And in games I like challenges.
Again, it's not your avatar's eyes that have switched to external view, but yours - you the player, controlling your ship and avatar! Botcams, inflatable vanity mirrors etc. are just an over complicated solution to a non-problem.
I just don't get it - what's the supposed combat advantage? Are you worried about players seeing around corners? There ARE no corners, it's a space game! 3rd person is a combat handicap!
It seems a rotten double standard to insist that "it's just a game" when it comes to actually handling like a spaceship, but that "it's an immersion breaker" to have a basic selection of standard camera views.
Immersion is largely dependent on how engaging the game interface is, which in turn is largely a function of how compliant it is to the player's wishes. It's an UI element, not a simulation feature! A crippled UI is an immersion breaker, but a fully-functional one engages and indulges the player's imagination.
Again, everyone needs to stop conflating this UI component with the FP simulation aspect This muddy thinking will lead us into stupidly compromising our eventual enjoyment of the game - sowing seeds of needless frustration, over what is essentially a group-think error! External cams are an UI function, not an avatar ability! It's a simple classification error...
Pretty much what MrVibrating just said.
I'd be really disappointed to not have the option for 3rd person and it can easily be made a handicap in combat.
I don't understand why it's immersion breaking to have it as an option you don't have to use. If this has already been explained by someone with that viewpoint then please point me to it so I can understand.
All the convoluted camera explanations I feel are unnecessary as it's been said many times on many different fronts that this is first a game and not a simulator.
It's, em, simulation correctness gone mad I tells ye
I'd be really disappointed to not have the option for 3rd person and it can easily be made a handicap in combat.
I don't understand why it's immersion breaking to have it as an option you don't have to use. If this has already been explained by someone with that viewpoint then please point me to it so I can understand.
All the convoluted camera explanations I feel are unnecessary as it's been said many times on many different fronts that this is first a game and not a simulator.
It's, em, simulation correctness gone mad I tells ye
Not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread yet.
In the books that came out alongside the original Elite, Elite 2 and FFE 'Vids' were mentioned in most of the stories.
They seemed to be a floating globe that could be deployed to record video, which was used in news reports and documentaries.
If you can buy probes in the game for exploring new systems, then you could use vids for taking video and pictures of your surrounding, events and damage to your ship etc.
In the books that came out alongside the original Elite, Elite 2 and FFE 'Vids' were mentioned in most of the stories.
They seemed to be a floating globe that could be deployed to record video, which was used in news reports and documentaries.
If you can buy probes in the game for exploring new systems, then you could use vids for taking video and pictures of your surrounding, events and damage to your ship etc.
The option to record and review later is mentioned in the original post. See "Comprmises/Alternative: Replay editor" - [Click here]
And although this feature is great, it does not give an immediate "live" view, which is what a lot of people would, I suspect, want out of an external view. ie: People want to quickly see what's happening right now from an alternative/better view.
They could have live view and record options.
Rather than having a view of your ship from all angles, like you get in a lot of games. You would need to actually purchase a device to do this, so it would feel 'real' instead just coded into the game.
Pretty much what MrVibrating just said.
I'd be really disappointed to not have the option for 3rd person and it can easily be made a handicap in combat.
I don't understand why it's immersion breaking to have it as an option you don't have to use. If this has already been explained by someone with that viewpoint then please point me to it so I can understand.
All the convoluted camera explanations I feel are unnecessary as it's been said many times on many different fronts that this is first a game and not a simulator.
It's, em, simulation correctness gone mad I tells ye
I'm not I favour of a realtime 3rd person view because an advantage may be gained by those using it, effectively forcing everyone to use it (much like racing sims). Combat isn't the only place 3rd person view might compromise game integrity.
There is some other reason that is more difficult to put in words. Something about the way players interact.... But my skills in English aren't able to convey the point effectively....
Toad.
What would this advantage be? (That hasn't been covered in the original post?)
Exploits - over an external view?
Sounds a bit extreme. A slim advantage in a very specific scenario is about as bad as I foresee it getting and nothing that cannot be plugged or just ignored as it doesn't really matter.
SP only feature would be useless, certainly to me and I expect many others wanting the feature. Being driven into SP for a feature would be a big deal for me.
Aren't the advantages examples in the original post enough?
Once a 3rd person viewing mode offers an advantage, everyone will have to use it even those that don't want to.
If the desire for 3rd person is just to admire a ship, then by all means take that offline and enable ext view there. If people want to take group selfies unnumbered by the HUD etc, then offer a replay mode. Last 15 or 5 mins or whatever.
Is there a requirement beyond these examples? I think it's fairly clear ED will not offer a realtime 3rd person view since that has been stated by FD.
Toad.
I don't have the quote to hand but if I remember correctly, FD has already said there won't be an external view....
At the moment this feature is not planned in either sp or mp afaik.
Toad.
The votes are in, non combat simple external view.
Was that really so hard..
Was that really so hard..
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