External View [A definitive discussion]

[-o-]

Just make it an SP only feature, and cannot be used in MP. That way those that want it can use it and those that don't want it due to concerns over possible exploits, don't have to worry about it.

Nice thought, but I feel SP wont be 'upgraded' from any its MP restirctions for consistency and status reasons.

Its obvious the 'combat advantage' reason is not the real reason external view is not allowed, as such a view could easily be inhibited when a ship enters combat. I think there is someone high up in the dev team who has put their foot down on this issue and will not budge.

I find it ironic that in the hanger they force you to look at your ship from an external view with no external cams mapped to internal cockpit screens - just the full 3rd person view which even rotates a little!

Immersion for one senior dev is not immersion for everyone - it is subjective. You will find that more people will feel connected to the ship if they can actually see it.

I find it rather selfish that an available feature is deliberately withheld from users because others know more about what we enjoy than we do The reason people want an external view is to visually appreciate the game more, not to gain some obscure combat advantage.

Can a supporter of the cockpit only view please explain to me why my viewing my ship externally will in any way affect their immersion. Why support an cockpit only view ? Why not support a wider choice - if not for yourself, but for others who would enjoy that.

Elite is about freedoms, not restrictions. Give us the choice.

 

[Mack]

For me it's a game first, I don't play it with any form of input device other than a keyboard and a mouse. I play it on a laptop with 1920x1080 res, I object to losing screen real estate to useless cockpit frames etc.

If you want a cockpit frame, print one out and stick it on cardboard round your monitor <- Problem solved !

Don't be selfish insisting the game shouldn't have the option of a 3rd party view, if you don't like it, don't use it, stay with 1st person.

 

[ToadMan]

The votes are in, non combat simple external view.

Was that really so hard..

The poll isn't well written but a quick tot up shows the no external view vote is larger as of now...

EDIT: nvm maybe the poll isn't showing what I think it shows!

Toad.

 

[TheSpackman]

I don't have the quote to hand but if I remember correctly, FD has already said there won't be an external view....

At the moment this feature is not planned in either sp or mp afaik.

Toad.

Appreciate that's the case but I think this is just some friendly chat about having it as an option.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have a solid game out sooner than spend ages trying to get a 3rd person view working that wasn't in the original plan but I'd love it to be included eventually and would happily wager an amount that if it's not on release then the pressure to include it afterwards will be strong.

Don't underestimate how much a 3rd person view will help many people fall in love with Elite all the more. 2 of my RL friends have already expressed assumption that a 3rd person view will be included after watching alpha footage. It's a big turn off for them it's not.

 

[Memnoch]

If for one am thankful that this this person, if this is the case, has put their foot down on this issue.

 

[TerranAmbassador]

/me waves arms

Another obligatory "Make it a feature of the groups system" post. It's not an issue if everyone in the instance agreed beforehand that it's okay.

EDIT 2:

Or maybe make it a piece of equipment. We're going to have equipment to take 'photos' for spy missions, right? Make those cameras controllable drones. To be able to use 'third-person' you have to have the requisite equipment already mounted.

It's the same thing as that EVA suggestion in the post above, expect you're using a piece of equipment instead of getting out of your ship. A piece of equipment that is otherwise a part of normal gameplay.

 

[NeoRacer]

No bcus it sucks. Its like watching a tv show of a guy watching a tv show. huh?!?

/me waves arms

 

[NeilF]

Yes: a Simple external ship viewer None Combat
is the way to go and will keep every one happy well not every one but most of us.

Define "non-combat"?

 

[TerranAmbassador]

No bcus it sucks. Its like watching a tv show of a guy watching a tv show. huh?!?

Spoiler

I'm sorry, I don't speak gibberish, could you try that again?

EDIT:

You know what, I'm actually going to be civil.

Please, explain to me what you find wrong with either of those suggestions.

 

[NeoRacer]

People want to have a 'drone view' so Im watching my screen, watching a drone screen of my ship..uhm no thanks. Im already in a game. Immersion is gonna have to rely on your own imagination and make concessions..yes this IS a game, sorry. Lets not handicap features because some people can't come to grips with that.

I'm sorry, I don't speak gibberish, could you try that again?

 

[TerranAmbassador]

People want to have a 'drone view' so Im watching my screen, watching a drone screen of my ship..uhm no thanks. Im already in a game. Immersion is gonna have to rely on your own imagination and make concessions..yes this IS a game, sorry. Lets not handicap features because some people can't come to grips with that.

Okay, then what do you think of my OTHER suggestion?

EDIT:

And the suggestion was not a handicap. It was integrating it into an existing, planned-for feature. You can use the drone, one which is operated by remote control and not bound to your ship, to snap a picture of that illegal AI research facility, or your own ship. Take your pick.

 

[KickahasTier]

Define "non-combat"?

Allow me to google that for you

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/non-combat

And just in case you are confused

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/combat

 

[Scorpio]

Being able to watch your ship lacerated by enemy vessel beam lasers should be available for masochist Elite fans. Its a fuller, richer universe.

 

[Memnoch]

No bcus it sucks. Its like watching a tv show of a guy watching a tv show. huh?!?

I just got third person view working!

1st Person

Spoiler

3rd Person

Spoiler

Spoiler

I also just realised that I need a haircut!

 

[TerranAmbassador]

I just got third person view working!

1st Person

Spoiler

3rd Person

Spoiler

Spoiler

I also just realised that I need a haircut!

HAX! I call hax!

 

[Memnoch]

HAX! I call hax!

It's okay, I've already opened an exploit ticket.

 

[Dejay]

I just don't get all this convoluted agonizing and rationalising.. I don't like playing GTA in 3rd person, so i don't.

I understand you BUT this thinking could really change for VR with the oculus rift! A game designed for VR needs to be careful about switching perspectives. Making players vomit on their keyboards is no joke. It's funny, but it's no joke Just kidding lol

Also it is the designers of ED who are saying they want a "pilots perspective" and not take the player out of that experience. And I generally agree with that sentiment, even though I actually do like 3rd person games and always played GTA in 3rd person and I certainly want to see my ship live from the outside.

VR should be the benchmark and not the classical gaming experience. It makes things more complicated. The idea of "presence" is that the VR headset actually manages to trick your visual senses into thinking you are actually there. Perspective changes could be really jarring. Of course I do want to see my ship from the outside whenever I want to, and I do want to take beautiful screenshots without cockpit and see how my ship is landing or docking.
IMHO this is not about realism or rationalizing a 3rd person view or gameplay advantages. We are mainly talking about that because it is regularly brought up as counter arguments against a 3rd person view.

But really it's about how to present a 3rd person view in a VR game without interrupting "presence".

Anyone with a rift could give feedback on how the sudden 3rd person view in hangar makes them feel?

I just got third person view working!

LOL good one

 

[NeilF]

Also it is the designers of ED who are saying they want a "pilots perspective" and not take the player out of that experience. And I generally agree with that sentiment, even though I actually do like 3rd person games and always played GTA in 3rd person and I certainly want to see my ship live from the outside.

As you mention, their alpha already break this rule. As soon as you dock... the view changes to an external one. Therefore completely break this supposed approach.

But really it's about how to present a 3rd person view in a VR game without interrupting "presence".

Anyone with a rift could give feedback on how the sudden 3rd person view in hangar makes them feel?

LOL good one

I doubt they bat an eye lid! - One second they're lookout out of a 3D computer generated graphic cockpit looking at a 3D computer generated graphic dock, and the next they're looking at a 3D computer generated graphic ship in a 3D computer generated graphic dock...

I doubt anything scary or nauseating occurs

 

[ToadMan]

Appreciate that's the case but I think this is just some friendly chat about having it as an option.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have a solid game out sooner than spend ages trying to get a 3rd person view working that wasn't in the original plan but I'd love it to be included eventually and would happily wager an amount that if it's not on release then the pressure to include it afterwards will be strong.

Don't underestimate how much a 3rd person view will help many people fall in love with Elite all the more. 2 of my RL friends have already expressed assumption that a 3rd person view will be included after watching alpha footage. It's a big turn off for them it's not.

Really? What is it they hope to gain from a 3rd person view?

If it's just to observe eye candy then they can be offline. So what else do they want? The whole game from 3rd person? If that's so, I hope FD doesn't give in on that. There's always Eve...

The problem for me is just like that of ARMA. ARMA offers both 1st and 3rd person views. The reality is, if you want to peak around corners you use 3rd person view. You have to because that is what everyone else is doing, even if you prefer 1st person. 1st person lets you peak around corners but you stick your character's head out thus giving away your location and becoming a target.

By giving everyone a 3rd person "option" you are effectively forcing those of us who prefer 1st person to play in 3rd person in order to maintain competitive balance. Imagine putting a 3rd person mode in CoD and telling people not to use it if they don't like it.... everyone has to go 3rd person to be competitive.

Toad.

 

[TerranAmbassador]

Yet another obligatory "Make it a feature of the groups system" post.

Make it so that 3rd person is available only in solo offline, solo online, and private groups where the owner of the group has allowed it as an option.

There. Possible solution. Discuss.