External View [A definitive discussion]
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It doesn't go external when you dock, only when you go into outfitting, the rule they are breaking is instantly teleporting you out of the ship rather than entering an external view, since there is no pilot in the ship on the outfitting screen, and you wouldn't be sat in it while it was being worked on anyway.
They are breaking the same rule when they instantly fit equipment, sell cargo etc... it's saving time.
Fair enough, but the same point surely? One moment you're in the cockpit, the next moment you're teleported elsewhere...
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you.
Just pointing out that the outfitting screen is not actually looking at yourself in 3rd person, it is standing looking at your ship from the side of the hangar
Just pointing out that the outfitting screen is not actually looking at yourself in 3rd person, it is standing looking at your ship from the side of the hangar
...yeh... and the proposed external view would be same again, just at anytime with variables angles
I wasn't referring to the OP, I was responding to someone who said his friends were only interested in ED if it had 3rd person view for all gameplay (something even the OP doesn't ask for).
Toad.
Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
...yeh... and the proposed external view would be same again, just at anytime with variables angles
My interpretation is (and it may be wrong) that in the hangar case your avatar has unbuckled, stood up, exited the ship, walked across the hangar to speak to some person in a blue overall busy wiping oil off their hands onto an oil soaked rag, and while the person in blue is sucking through their teeth the avatar, that's you that is in first person mode, looks back at the ship.
it jumps as we don't have walking around or avatars yet.
So, actually very different from a remote third person view in the vacuum of space. Unless you fancy a spacewalk.
For the avoidance of doubt I don't care if there's a third person view or not, it holds no interest to me, just thought I'd point out what I think is going on is a little different from your interpretation.
Ooops! My bad!
I suspect, even with such an addition - where you can walk all the walk outside your ship - after you've done it a dozen times, you'll just be pressing the button to skip those 20 seconds and jump straight to the outfitting view. Don't you recon? It would just be like a mandatory cut scene every time.
If that is you, looking at your own ship being equipped, then that adds even more problems.
Due to MP sync, there is no fast forwarding in ED, so how did you magically teleport from inside your cockpit to outside your ship in 1 frame?
Time travel to explain the external view .... this hole keeps getting deeper.
Due to MP sync, there is no fast forwarding in ED, so how did you magically teleport from inside your cockpit to outside your ship in 1 frame?
Time travel to explain the external view .... this hole keeps getting deeper.
Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed. That's similar to the "how long to get to the surface" thread. First time, take ages, enjoy it. Second time it's a out - down. Third time, starts to drag, etc etc.
Ages ago I had a game called Deuteros on the Amiga. It was great. Anyway just as each task you were doing became repetitive your head of research would appear and say "hey, I think we can automate that task, why don't we research it for you?" and the tedium would go away.
I digress.
It's an abstraction, obviously. A sacrifice of realism upon the alters of the fickle gods Gameplay and Necessity, if you will.
They skip the scene of you getting out of your ship because they probably don't have the assets for it yet; it's either not complete yet, or it's something that they're waiting for the avatars expansion to do.
Ohh a selective abstraction ... obviously!
That triggered a faint memory of a conference video where DB was talking about PG and referencing Picasso painting trees. Thank you for opening my mind to the possibilities of such abstract interpretations. For too long have I been imprisoned by these walls of logic!
its love, not hate :smilie:
As you mention, their alpha already break this rule. As soon as you dock... the view changes to an external one. Therefore completely break this supposed approach.
I doubt they bat an eye lid! - One second they're lookout out of a 3D computer generated graphic cockpit looking at a 3D computer generated graphic dock, and the next they're looking at a 3D computer generated graphic ship in a 3D computer generated graphic dock...
I doubt anything scary or nauseating occurs
For me it is more like camera view.
Avatar should stay in cockpit and those views should be cameras view without sway.
LOL
And I dont understand people like you with weird syndrome that I call "casual player way of shallow thinking" and their "it is only a game!" way of describing digital entertainment.
It is not about full immersion breaker (in some percentage it is) and that "it is game so lets do whatever we imagine because we don't want to have second life in game boo ho ho" "realism suck. Bo ho ho" (SOOOO I want to launch at you barrage of pink unicorns from my catapult on my pimped cobra MKIII and they explode with colors of rainbow because it is only a game right? Ok that would be to much.... I want missiles that are 100% accurate and they just go through any armor and instantly destroys any ship because I suck at combat so it would help me to enjoy this game. YOU DONT NEED TO USE THEM IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT IDEA. But I just want that feature. It is also quite plausible in future so why not ?? Why you don't want to allow me to do that? [cries like spoiled kid] it is only a gameee)
So for me it is about logic.
If game is focused on cockpit view then it is bad to make 3rd person view. Mainly because it brakes LOGIC of game that uses cockpit view (if there is technology to allow pilot to view from behind his ship with better view, faster aiming and faster target acquisition then what is the point of making cockpit with windows ???? It would be better to put pilot deep inside ship behind more armor! LOGIC!)
What is the point in making cockpit view when some players would stay 90% in 3rd person view like in freelancer type game. Because........ YES 3rd person view is handicap! So what that there is no corners, high walls, etc. There are still obstacles like asteroids! If player would use obstacles and watch my movement and predict what I will do then it is like cheating. Player who know what he is doing would use that very well. For example I would use that view and hide behind asteroid for example because I have only 50% of hull so I would play mouse and cat with you so my shields would regenerate in peace.I would see your movement and I would in time move my ship to opposite side. We would start to play something like slide against asteroid.
But if that ability of 3rd person view would be from camdrones that I can destroy and you have limited amount of them then I would have nothing against that. Maybe even I would not have problems to accept that those camdrones would allow to use them in combat. If I would have ability to just shot them and destroy them then it would be fun to play on nerves of players who so much, so BAD wants 3rd person view in games that dont want to be another freelancer type arcade games
It would be funny to watch rage on YT vids when guy lost his all camdrones and must use cockpit view
I think that enabling those cam drones would use some time to deploy them so they would not be like instant swap from cockpit view to outside view. View from that cam drones would be displayed on helmet glass or something like that. Insta cam swap would be just awfully dumb.
But as I already stated I am totally against 3rd person view or outside view in arcadeish form with instant camera change because it breaks LOGIC also immersion etc. for many players! (knowing that somebody may use that feature against them in MP break fun for them)
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It's to enjoy the game while seeing their ship - the atmosphere it gives and TBH just getting to watch your beautiful ship fly through space. Do it offline? Really? It's about enjoying that perspective while you play.
What corners are you planning on peeking around? Comparing combat in Elite to ARMA isn't really apples with apples. Also it's been said force to 1st person for combat.
You are only forced to a 3rd person if it gives you an advantage. You are assuming it will give a competitive advantage and surely it will be possible to do the exact opposite and make it a disadvantage.
Your peeking around corners thing is hugely unlikely to often if ever be a problem in space combat and to re-iterate - force to 1st person in combat.
I can think of one scenario where being able to peek while out of combat could give an advantage and that's when being hunted and in silent mode, say hiding on an asteroid. Even then, you do not gain much over what your scanner would tell you anyway (or force to 1st person if in such a scenario).
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Sorry but you've completely misunderstood my point - which is that, short of full VR, there's an inescapable distinction between your avatar's view of the gameworld, and yours, as a real player looking at a screen while fiddling with a gamepad... hence there's no inconsistency or contradiction from ANY camera view, any more than that gamepad or screen. It's not your avatar looking at the ship, but you the player, and your avatar remains inside it. Likewise, it's not your avatar who's playing with the gamepad....
The logic clash is all yours my friend; there's gameworlds, and the real world, but always some sort of interface between them. Camera views are a real-world part of that interface, not a part of the gameworld being portrayed on-screen.
I'll argue for in-game realism till i'm blue in the face, but this is not such an issue, so you can lead your pink unicorns back into their padded stables.. at least until FD announce them as a confirmed expansion.
And again, i cannot understand why anyone would feel their experience was compromised just by the suspicion that some other player may or may not view different cameras? I do know however that in GTA IV first person perspective affords me considerable advantage over 3rd person, especially when driving, but also just when wandering about and exploring. Knowing that everyone else is probably only using 3rd person has zero impact on my fun, immersion or combat skills... i'm oblivious to their interface conditions, which gamepads they're using, or which PC or console they're on. It's A GAME, and one that's too fun and engaging to be worrying about such irrelevant trivia as what view any opponents might be using. That's THEIR game, not mine. Their business. No impact on me at all..
You didn't get nothing at all. It is waste of time on people like you. It is your point and only your point. Also those examples from arcadeish games like GTA are silly and showing my point that you are to much into your own point of view.
I feel like arguing with yet another religious person that have one and only opinion that will never change no matter what.
I am into both solutions, leave only 1st person view and also have nothing against 3rd person view if it is explained and utilized with sense. You in other hand want that game to be exactly as you want this game to be... Go create your own if you don't like game focused on FPP. Simple as that!
You should just go and search other game and leave ED for people that likes where it is going and only suggest slight additions and stuff.
Don't get hostile, chillax
You are misrepresenting the poor vibrating mister's position (strawman fallacy), he didn't ask or argue for arcade style 3rd person combat. That and cockpitless fighting has been ruled out by FD and the vast majority agrees with that (93%). In any case, it's not in the scope of this thread and should be argued elsewhere. Your objection against the misunderstood position has also already been answered in the OP. Only non combat 3rd person view, hiding what's not on your scanner, no gameplay advantage for looking around an obstacle. That's argumentum ad nauseam fallacy.And telling others who want something for ED to go play sims (or another game) is... not even wrong. I think it's not a fallacy but simply a non sequitur.
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1st person only. Except in special circumstances like docked, or whatever, kind of how it is now. Replays with different cameras would be nice, a spectator 3rd person camera. But in game flight 1st person only.
It is an advantage in some cases to go 3rd person.
Plus its more realistic not to be able 2. Being able to go 3rd person is kind of like cheating when the game is a 1st person game.
The only reason I would want a 3rd person view is to look at how cool my ship looks. There is no other reason other than to have a better look around, which you shouldnt be able to do. Sit in your chair and look out the window like everybody else
Its a first person game, I dont believe you should be able to do it in games like Battlefield either, but nobody will have it.
It is an advantage in some cases to go 3rd person.
Plus its more realistic not to be able 2. Being able to go 3rd person is kind of like cheating when the game is a 1st person game.
The only reason I would want a 3rd person view is to look at how cool my ship looks. There is no other reason other than to have a better look around, which you shouldnt be able to do. Sit in your chair and look out the window like everybody else
Its a first person game, I dont believe you should be able to do it in games like Battlefield either, but nobody will have it.
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