The Joystick/Controller discussion thread
Yep, the n52 is an extremely versatile device. More so than the newer Razer devices, as they've done away with the scroll wheel.
How is your setup?
I've traded my T16000 for a X52 setup.
I used to like that the T16000 was stiff (gave me a sense of weight when moving my ship, really feeling the mass), and the x52 has a reputation of being not stiff enough.
-> NOT disapointed. Yes, the x52 seems awfull loose at the beginning, but you get used to it in no time and I actually got back a lot of agility in my flying : I was not aware how much I was fighting against the T16000 stiffness, resulting in too strong movements. When I got to practice FA-Off with the x52, I was never so stable thanks to its smoothness.
I used to love the throttle slider on the T16000, it was really precise IMO. But I wanted the feeling of a real throttle.
-> Still not disapointed. I had to gt used to the fact that I can't set my speed AND mess around with the buttons on the base of both joystick and throttle. With the T16000 I would retract my landing gear while pitching and setting speed. Now, I have to get my hand off the throttle or the stick to push a landing gear button. But it's not too much a bother, and actually I could perfectly set a shift function to one of the throttle or stick button. I just chose not to.
Meanwhile, the x52 throttle is way more precise than the T16000 slider, by a landslide !
I wanted a better looking/feeling setup
-> The T16000 has a cheap finish. It's extremely strong and quality-made, but it looks like plastick. The x52 isn't quite metallic yet, but definitely looks more "real" and has an amazing grip feeling. I love the metallic trigger, it clics very smoothly with a nice metal feel. The lights on the x52 setup are gorgeous too.
I wanted more buttons.
-> The T16000 had a lot of buttons, but 6 can't be used properly because they are on the "wrong" side of the stick. Can't be used at all to be fair.
The x52 is... almost too much. Three hats instead of 1 on the T16000 -> I almost didn't map the second stick hat. The swiches at the base of the stick are not easy to access at all time, but perfect for "calm" functions like : lights, landing gear, cargo scoop...
The buttons on the base of the throttle are more easy to access, quite perfect for functions you don't want to trigger by accident but keep on speed dial, like : silent running, hyperjump, SCB...
The hat swich is a marvel ! It's 8-way (the three hats on the x52 are 8-way hats) and absolutely perfect for lateral and vertical thrusters! This hat is vertical, so it feels more natural as to what direction does what. And now I can use the hat on the stick for power management, instead of having a swich to manage both on the same hat.
Then, there are the throttle buttons that are directly on the throttle : I don't like the wheels very much. The mousewheel shift my weapons, but I didn't map its clic, for it is not practical. The two thumb wheels are a bit too difficult to use, I didn't map them neither. But the three thumb buttons are just perfect... I use them for boost, look around and reverse thrust.
Now, note that there is a pinky switch on the stick, very easy to access without taking your other fingers off their positions, that instantly double the available functions.
I don't even use the mode swich... without using the keyboard, I only need 80% of the available buttons on the x52 set.
Two things to know about the x52, though :
- you HAVE to remove the throttle stops. The throttle can't move past 75% or below 25% without blocking a little. That's crippling. It's a feature, not a malfunction, but it is horrible to play Elite. Fortunatly, it's the easiest thing in the world : with a screwdriver, just open the base of the throttle, and remove the little black gum on the base. That's all. Seems scary, but it takes 5mn and you can't damage the throttle by doing it, as the circuitery is entirely located on the upper side of the base, wich you don't need to touch.
- it's way too weightless. I put thack gum under the throttle to make it stick to the table. I recommand to add weight into it, screw it, glue it, or as I did, find a way to make it stick to your desk.
I used to like that the T16000 was stiff (gave me a sense of weight when moving my ship, really feeling the mass), and the x52 has a reputation of being not stiff enough.
-> NOT disapointed. Yes, the x52 seems awfull loose at the beginning, but you get used to it in no time and I actually got back a lot of agility in my flying : I was not aware how much I was fighting against the T16000 stiffness, resulting in too strong movements. When I got to practice FA-Off with the x52, I was never so stable thanks to its smoothness.
I used to love the throttle slider on the T16000, it was really precise IMO. But I wanted the feeling of a real throttle.
-> Still not disapointed. I had to gt used to the fact that I can't set my speed AND mess around with the buttons on the base of both joystick and throttle. With the T16000 I would retract my landing gear while pitching and setting speed. Now, I have to get my hand off the throttle or the stick to push a landing gear button. But it's not too much a bother, and actually I could perfectly set a shift function to one of the throttle or stick button. I just chose not to.
Meanwhile, the x52 throttle is way more precise than the T16000 slider, by a landslide !
I wanted a better looking/feeling setup
-> The T16000 has a cheap finish. It's extremely strong and quality-made, but it looks like plastick. The x52 isn't quite metallic yet, but definitely looks more "real" and has an amazing grip feeling. I love the metallic trigger, it clics very smoothly with a nice metal feel. The lights on the x52 setup are gorgeous too.
I wanted more buttons.
-> The T16000 had a lot of buttons, but 6 can't be used properly because they are on the "wrong" side of the stick. Can't be used at all to be fair.
The x52 is... almost too much. Three hats instead of 1 on the T16000 -> I almost didn't map the second stick hat. The swiches at the base of the stick are not easy to access at all time, but perfect for "calm" functions like : lights, landing gear, cargo scoop...
The buttons on the base of the throttle are more easy to access, quite perfect for functions you don't want to trigger by accident but keep on speed dial, like : silent running, hyperjump, SCB...
The hat swich is a marvel ! It's 8-way (the three hats on the x52 are 8-way hats) and absolutely perfect for lateral and vertical thrusters! This hat is vertical, so it feels more natural as to what direction does what. And now I can use the hat on the stick for power management, instead of having a swich to manage both on the same hat.
Then, there are the throttle buttons that are directly on the throttle : I don't like the wheels very much. The mousewheel shift my weapons, but I didn't map its clic, for it is not practical. The two thumb wheels are a bit too difficult to use, I didn't map them neither. But the three thumb buttons are just perfect... I use them for boost, look around and reverse thrust.
Now, note that there is a pinky switch on the stick, very easy to access without taking your other fingers off their positions, that instantly double the available functions.
I don't even use the mode swich... without using the keyboard, I only need 80% of the available buttons on the x52 set.
Two things to know about the x52, though :
- you HAVE to remove the throttle stops. The throttle can't move past 75% or below 25% without blocking a little. That's crippling. It's a feature, not a malfunction, but it is horrible to play Elite. Fortunatly, it's the easiest thing in the world : with a screwdriver, just open the base of the throttle, and remove the little black gum on the base. That's all. Seems scary, but it takes 5mn and you can't damage the throttle by doing it, as the circuitery is entirely located on the upper side of the base, wich you don't need to touch.
- it's way too weightless. I put thack gum under the throttle to make it stick to the table. I recommand to add weight into it, screw it, glue it, or as I did, find a way to make it stick to your desk.
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I've got the Logitech 3D pro and it is slow to react, then when it does it over reacts, any suggestions for me ?
Sounds like you misconfigured your stick. Feed your binds to the link in my signature and see if it picks up any problems.
Have you per chance set the dead-zone too large?
Comments would be appreciated
I have edited my n52 setup a little by moving a few things around and adding direct access to the panels (LeftAlt + [(1)|(2)|(3)|(4)]). I have also tried to make the map of my setup slightly more readable for others.
I am considering what to use the thumb switch for. Voice commands or PTT comes to mind, but I do have an old foot switch that I have previously used with TeamSpeak. I don't envision getting rudder pedals, so it wouldn't mess with that.
As mentioned previously, I have left many (if not most) of the "standard" keybinds in place as alternates. This plays nicely with using a Roccat Power Grid, or two, if I feel the need, If I want macros for things like docking request (LeftAlt+(1) perhaps), I can easily grab the keypress in AHK, without messing with any of the keybinds on the n52.
I REALLY would like some comments from experienced commanders - preferably before I get any bad habits.
In the mean time, I think I will try to learn flying backwards (which I guess some would call a bad habit
)
I have edited my n52 setup a little by moving a few things around and adding direct access to the panels (LeftAlt + [(1)|(2)|(3)|(4)]). I have also tried to make the map of my setup slightly more readable for others.
I am considering what to use the thumb switch for. Voice commands or PTT comes to mind, but I do have an old foot switch that I have previously used with TeamSpeak. I don't envision getting rudder pedals, so it wouldn't mess with that.
As mentioned previously, I have left many (if not most) of the "standard" keybinds in place as alternates. This plays nicely with using a Roccat Power Grid, or two, if I feel the need, If I want macros for things like docking request (LeftAlt+(1) perhaps), I can easily grab the keypress in AHK, without messing with any of the keybinds on the n52.
I REALLY would like some comments from experienced commanders - preferably before I get any bad habits.
In the mean time, I think I will try to learn flying backwards (which I guess some would call a bad habit
)I do not have any instructions for setting up a joystick, so I have been trying different settings, then going into a practice game and see if they are better or worse. I take it the default setting for the dead zone is the best, and moving the slider to the right makes for more of a dead zone ?
In my limited knowledge on how joysticks work, I believe you are right. Moving the slider to the right increases the dead zone which makes the game ignore the joystick unless it's moved outside the range of the dead zone.
I have a new "hotas" stick I have it set up and everything is working okay except the pitch axis, is not smooth as it progresses, it does nothing when I move it, so I move it a bit more, and still no pitch movement, so I move it more and then it goes to fast and over controls. I have the dead zone slider to the left side of the box. The reason I have a new stick is because I was having the same problem with the Logitech extreme 3d pro.
I had this problem with my Hotas as well until I came across the excellent Joystick Curves which you can read about and download at the following link. http://www.xedocproject.com/joystickcurves.html
I also came across the video at You Tube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqzoJPCZM0w which explains in very easy to understand terms how to install it and set it up.
I use a Saitex Cyborg Evo flight stick. Was a very good entry level stick. I used it in all my Flight Sims, without problems.
But for this game, and other space environment gaming, I prefer the x-box controller. It has the look and feel of something more
futuristic to be on par with the time setting. A stick is best for flying in atmosphere, and controller for zero gravity activity.
But for this game, and other space environment gaming, I prefer the x-box controller. It has the look and feel of something more
futuristic to be on par with the time setting. A stick is best for flying in atmosphere, and controller for zero gravity activity.
Spent some time today flying FA-Off with a 3DConnexion Space Pilot Pro! It works really well for slow manoeuvres, not sure if I could ever get used to it for combat though.
http://www.3dconnexion.eu/products/spacemouse/spacepilot-pro.html
Makes me wonder if this, or something like it, wouldn't be what pilots end up using in the future as it is the only device I know of that supports full 6 degrees of freedom control. Will say though, compared to flying with my Warthog stick it certainly feels a lot less... manly...
http://www.3dconnexion.eu/products/spacemouse/spacepilot-pro.html
Makes me wonder if this, or something like it, wouldn't be what pilots end up using in the future as it is the only device I know of that supports full 6 degrees of freedom control. Will say though, compared to flying with my Warthog stick it certainly feels a lot less... manly...
CH Products Flightstick, Pro-Throttle and Pro-Pedals.
I especially like the analogue mini thumbstick on the throttle, which not only gives me an axis for horizontal and vertical thrust, but diagonal thrust as well, at any angle I choose.
I especially like the analogue mini thumbstick on the throttle, which not only gives me an axis for horizontal and vertical thrust, but diagonal thrust as well, at any angle I choose.
http://www.3dconnexion.eu/products/spacemouse/spacepilot-pro.html
Makes me wonder if this, or something like it, wouldn't be what pilots end up using in the future as it is the only device I know of that supports full 6 degrees of freedom control. Will say though, compared to flying with my Warthog stick it certainly feels a lot less... manly...
Dual-stick setup can also give you 6 degrees of freedom, provided that both sticks are 3DoF.
In fact, that’s what I settled on using after trying various configurations – Logitech Extreme 3D Pro for the right hand (attitude control), Thrustmaster T.16000M for the left hand (thruster control).
While I’m at it, I’m taking the opportunity to write some comments on both joysticks
Logitech Extreme 3D Pro
Good:
- 6 buttons on the stick’s head (all accessible without moving your hand) FTW
- Fairly hefty and wide base, not prone to slipping or tilting during heated combat.
- Fits the hand well, at least in my experience.
- Requires some deadzone for X and Y axes, and a fairly large deadzone for the RZ axis to prevent spurious input.
- Throttle is somewhat difficult to set precisely, and its movement range is too limited for full-range setup (i.e. has to be set to forward only).
- Button 2 (the one on the side of the stick) can get stuck if pressed too hard – better avoid binding it to anything that calls for continuous input (like secondary fire).
Good:
- One of the few 3DoF sticks that can be configured for either hand.
- High precision input on X and Y axes.
- No deadzones required.
- I find the bright green LEDs in the base extremely annoying (I frequently play under low-light conditions), and there’s no way to turn them off (short of cutting the wires). [rolleyes] I actually ended up covering translucent parts of the base with black sticky tape.
- While there are 16 buttons in total, only 4 are on the stick’s head, which is a bit too little for my taste. Of the remaining 12 buttons, 6 are difficult to access because they are on the wrong side of the base (a side effect of the ambidextrous design).
- Throttle’s movement range is too limited to be useful as actual throttle. I use it to control scanner range.
- The base is a bit too easy to tilt forward and has poor traction (tends to slip around) on many surfaces. (I fixed the traction problem by attaching pieces of Velcro-type hook strips to the table. Loop strips turned out not to be required.[big grin])
All in all, I consider both joysticks quite decent for their price.
Anyone looking for the Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X at the cheapest price...
Maplin have it on offer at the moment. Their in-store price is £29.99 instead of the usual £44.99. That makes it comparable with the best online prices.
Happy hunting.
Maplin have it on offer at the moment. Their in-store price is £29.99 instead of the usual £44.99. That makes it comparable with the best online prices.
Happy hunting.
What would be the next best tier after the T.16000M?
T16000M seems the best option, but I'd like a similarly quality stick with more hats, that doesn't cost 200. I guess no such thing exists?
T16000M seems the best option, but I'd like a similarly quality stick with more hats, that doesn't cost 200. I guess no such thing exists?
So I was playing with Warthog and VKB T Rudder Mk3 pedals for the past month (and trackir). It was a pain in the ass to disassemble and reapply grease to warthog but was worth it. T Rudder pedals is above and beyond my expectations, it is literally build to last for generations. Currently in the waiting list for VKB Gunfighter Pro, will use it for the base for warthog grip, the default warthog base is unfortunately a rubbish.
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Look at defender cobra m5, I used that before switching for warthog. It's cheap, precise, have quite a lot of buttons with 3 shifts.
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