No, I can't play if there's no challenge to be had. I was bored out of my mind grinding for credits in Eve Online. I did that ONLY to buy better ships for.....PVP in nullsec. If Eve:Online was all grinding and no PVP, I wouldn't have subscribed. That's how I play. I want PVP or some serious challenge from the AI, and problem is, I play on XBOX and there are very few opportunities for PVP. So that leaves me with the AI most of the time, and easy doesn't cut it.
Discuss AI here (After Engineer mods removal)
- Thread starter Cmdr Eagleboy
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No, I can't play if there's no challenge to be had. I was bored out of my mind grinding for credits in Eve Online. I did that ONLY to buy better ships for.....PVP in nullsec. If Eve:Online was all grinding and no PVP, I wouldn't have subscribed. That's how I play. I want PVP or some serious challenge from the AI, and problem is, I play on XBOX and there are very few opportunities for PVP. So that leaves me with the AI most of the time, and easy doesn't cut it.
No, you CAN play. You simply choose not to. If the AI makes fighting impossible, then some of us CANNOT play.
That said, I'm not unsympathetic to the desire for a challenge. PvP is there for you in that case, but I can also sympathize with the desire to avoid PvP. I don't enjoy it myself.
As others have said, there should be areas where harder foes can be found, but in general terms, the AI is too difficult.
I think it's fair to say that if people find the game too boring, for whatever reason, they'll leave it, same as if they find it too difficult. That being said, this is an AI upgrade and we've had to deal with worse already – no, I don't want it to go back to that either, but I still very much enjoyed the game.
I don't think it's fair to say that the game is impossible to play now though, just perhaps more challenging then some would care for, perhaps especially for those who don't want to change and adapt their play styles accordingly.
In the end, I think it likely comes down to personal tastes as much as skill. But, it isn't the end yet, of course, as they've said they will make additional changes. We'll have to see what happens. I'm not holding my breath though, as I'm not afraid (justifiably so, or otherwise) to rack up hours playing the game with the current build.
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He had two pips to shields when changing it to four would have more than doubled his shield hp's and did not use a single shield cell. All that video shows is someone poor at combat, and likely with a poor build, I would put money on his not even having A rated shields. Had he switched 4 pips to shields, performed a boost turn to bring his weapons to bear, popped a shield cell as any half decent player would do that ai would be dead, not him.
That was bad play, yet you would try and use it to complain about the AI being too hard, and sadly that happens all too frequently in these forums.
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I'm not Elite yet, i'm Dangerous. If a reset of rank was allowed, and ships scaled, it would work for a while, but eventually, my rank would go back up, and eventually, i'd run into the same wall. Unless there was some ability to lock your combat rank, refuse rank ups or something.
This is exactly why I argued, a couple of days and a few threads ago, against scaling of NPCs to the players rank. Not because players might have "ranked too high" against pre-2.1 NPCs, but because a player hitting their skill cap then has their ENTIRE gameplay closed off by the NPCs they can't beat, not just combat progression. This is exactly the scenario I predicted players would face. If fights you can't win keep finding you once you hit a certain combination of rank and your innate skill, that's effectively "Game Over" - something that truly should never be a thing in any part of the Elite franchise.
I'm sorry it had to be you proving me correct
Indeed, i'm at my skill cap, and the AI seems to surpass that by a long way.
I don't need more practice. I've been playing the game long enough. I tried to reserve judgement unlike many. But the more i played, the more i died. I'm now losing money quicker than i'm making it. That's not really a learning experience. One of my deaths yesterday was leaving the station, cleared the mass lock, was about to high wake, came under attack. Started high waking, dead before i could jump. That *might* have been one of the bugged weapons, although i think it was just weapons too powerful for my CM4, it doesn't have the strongest shields of the ships in the game, not the fastest speed.
I'm not asking for you to handicap yourself. Nothing against there being dangerous areas in the game where those looking for a real challenge can go to get very hard combat... but in SC or near stations. I do think things need to be toned down.
Ok, i suck. Now, what do you suggest? I can't git gud, i'm dead if i exit the station in anything but a combat ship, and even if a combat ship i'm still dying frequently. At this point, i have zero motivation to launch the game.
Perhaps you meant rank? Rank isn't an indication of skill. The encounters i've had are well above my skill level.
Hey, calm yourself, mate. What's stopping you from jumping to other stellar systems? Is it Powerplay that's causing difficulties for you?
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Haha. This is the single greatest thing I have ever read.
Well, I've gotten a bit better at combat since the update. I've still seen a few engineered weapons, but I'm holding my own. I took down an Elite Anaconda with my FDL today, just stayed on his tail and hammered him with that big class 4 beam. He still got me down to 50% hull though. It was a touch fight, but satisfying. Before the update, I might have taken that one down with far less damage to myself.
For me, it's the constant interdictions, followed by attacks by ever larger numbers of foes, not ONE of which I have any hope of combating. I was interdicted 3 times just trying to get to Obsidian Orbital after an exploration run in the Pleiades, and that with NO CARGO, no bounty on my head, no powerplay and only novice rank in combat. I had to high warp out facing 2 sidewinders that had my shields gone in roughly 5 seconds. In the past, I might have tried taking on the two ships. Now, I can't take on even one. That's not any fun.
I'm not enjoying the game. That's the damning fact of it. I WAS enjoying it. I could explore in relative peace, trade in relative peace and actually had some ability to fight back if attacked by a smaller foe. Now I can't explore without being attacked, can't trade without being attacked, and I can't fight back against even the smallest foes. There's simply nothing to make me want to play.
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Now do that fight 8 or 9 times as you try to get to a station with a load of gold or some such. That's about how often a trader can expect to be interdicted on a typical multisystem run.
Of course, the FDL isn't a trade ship, so you'll be in better shape than most traders... but if the first fight took you to 50%, do you think you'll survive the second? The third? The NINTH?
Also, 400 voters on this poll vs 2000 on the previous one.
Last time I tried getting people's opinion on the forum, I was lectured how polls like these are bias by self selected voters to start with. Food for thoughts.
Yes, rank, not that my skill is so great.
<don't insult other forum members please>
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Nothing stopping my jumping to other systems, but how will that help? The system i'm in isn't low sec.
And yes, powerplay is part of the problem. I signed up to get Torval's mining lance. Those powerplay NPCs are absoloutely insane. But i've died to non-PP ships as well. Was interdicted by two pirates, dead before i could get out.
Dropping the powerplay pledge will help a bit, sure. But then, does this mean, unless things change, i can never participate in PP? (had hopes one day that PP might become more interesting and be worth taking part for something besides rewards). I wonder about those who do take part in PP and how they are faring. I've seen a thread or two from people saying they are quitting PP because the AI is too hard for them now.
I suppose FD are watching the stats more than the forum discussions. Watching things like death ratios, PP involvement, etc. It will paint a better picture for them than these threads, especially as it will give indications of how people are faring that do not participate in forum life.
But anyway, i'll stop playing until the next patch, see how that changes things. If its still too hard for me.... well, summer is here, the weather is hot, family to pay attention to, and there is beer to be drank. Son wants me to play Marvel Heroes with him as well. Played a bit last night with him. Its a bit of a mindless grind, but fun regardless.
Yes, the up rising of the next generation of gamers!
Yes, i'm aware they are looking into the bugs... and probably in general about the AI balance in general. Being a moderator, i do have a hotline to the Community Managers
I agree, I'm sure FD have 'numbers' and will take them into account.
I can't speak for PP as I've never been interested in it, but what I do think is that there's an imbalance of high ranked NPCs out there at the moment, and while they certainly should be very hard for the average player to beat, they should probably be a lot rarer. Also, I'm seeing some pretty low ranked NPCs with potent weapons load outs and an uncanny ability to use those weapons better than their rank would indicate.
I've said it before, but I believe that NPCs are our content, and if too many players are having difficulty with that content, needing to avoid it rather than engage with it, then that's a problem.
Hopefully it's a balancing issue that FD can sort out, leaving the Elites for the fighter aces to go and hunt out, and finding a decent level of challenge that is fun for those who don't want constant combat resulting in constant re-buys forced upon them.
Well, after today's antics, i wish i could change my vote to: AI is too hard.
In fact, i'm beginning to think its insane.
Yes, i know some people are saying how they can take down anacondas in sidewinders with one hand tied behind their backs, and kudos to you. I've not been too bothered by the AI until now (minus the bugs about super rapid fire weapons, which were annoying), but then, i jumped in my CM4 to do some piracy. Lovely ship, but it has some weaknesses... erm... quite a few. But anyway. Headed out to go pew-pew myself some traders. Unfortunately, just as i was locking onto a trader, i got interdicted.
No worries eh? Oh... Vulture +1 other... not sure, didn't even get a look at him.
No way was i taking a vulture on in a CM4, decided to run.
But, sorry, low wake not possible. Mass locked and got a pounding. Damn... i need to high wake! Nope, not enough time, i was dead before my poor synapses could react. Even if i had hit high wake straight away, i don't think i would have made it.
After my last deaths in CZ, i had sworn off combat... but this wasn't me seeking out a challenging fight... the fight found me, and i lost it.
I'm now in the position where the only way I dare exit the station without worry is to get in my A grade Vulture, and even that is risky. Anything else, its a death sentence. I can understand git gud if i'm seeking out dedicated combat. But from what i see so far, i can't even go out in anything that isn't a combat ship.
I have offered advice to those flying trade ships, i've read the guides people have posted post 2.1... I thought it wasn't people adapting... but now, i understand i was wrong. As far as I can tell (and manbe its my own lack of skill), the new AI are brutal, and this is coming from an expereinced player. I shudder to think how new players will fare.
I thought the new AI, until the new patch, would limit my combat activities. Now, after being destroyed near a station (earlier today) and after interdiction, i now realize i can't actually do anything, unless i'm in a full combat fitted ship.
Git gud? Sorry, i'm as good as i can be. I've played long enough. I'm at my personal skill cap. I might get marginally better, but that's it. Fine, i'll stay away from combat... but as things stand, i need to stay away from everything. I can't travel in a non-combat ship, and if the AI remains at its current level, it means i'm locked out of flying anything not combat related.
I can only hope at this point, that SJA either tones things down (which will annoy those looking for harder AI) or makes adaptive AI which matches itself to the skill level of the pilot.... or at least stops sending killing machines against people flying weaker ships, no matter their combat rank.
As of this point, the game simply isn't any fun any more.
To anyone I said they needed to adapt to the new AI, my apologies. I had underestimated it.
Well.
To be Honest I think it became Stronger in the last 2 Days again.
I had some Fights before and then also some Tonight.
And Tonight they seriously went heavily over the Roof.
Heck I had an Sidewinder which Spammed Chaffs with less than 3 Second Windows to Fire at it. While it was Leisurely Taking down my Pythons Shields from 2500m Away
Can you Imagine that ?
An Sidewinder Taking Down a Pythons 6B Shield from 2500m while Spamming Chaffs so my Turrets did not do any Damage on it.
I tought I was in the wrong Movie....
Their Accuracy on Range is just Crazy Now.
I had Enemies Accurately Hitting me on almost a 4k away. I didnt even Know Weapons can Shoot that Far.
Needless to say their Maneuverability is completely Beyond Human Capacity. I tried with FA Off but there is just no Way to Reach the Maneuverability they got unless your some sort of Octopus which can use a number of Thrusters and Axis at the Same Time.
So After Excessive Testing. I.ll Vote they are too Hard.
They are entirely Inhuman Right now.
This Sort of Combat Level for NPCs should be Something you meet maybe once a Week. When doing some Real Big Mission where you get like 300-500k Credits for it together with an 200-300k Bounty on the Guy.
Its not a lvl of Flying that you should have on a g 12k Bounty Viper MK3 or an 22k Bounty Imperial Clipper for Heavens Sake.
Much less is it something you should have as every Second Enemy.
NPCs right now are too Hard. They are Unrealistic and Inhuman. Performing Maneuvers that Humans cant even do outside an Preplanned Sequence they Specially set their Controls Up for.
This needs to be Nerfed Heavily.
Keep the Program for Boss NPCs of Huge Missions.
But g remove this Stuff from being the stuff you meet all Day....
Well if being part of a Faction Means you cannot even get through 2 Systems without being Interdicted by some Elite Rank Anaconda. I doubt this will Help.
No Offense. But even before Powerplay was basicly only Combat Oriented. Because the non Combat Methods of Acquiring Ratings are pretty Laughable at best.
Now its even less Possible to Participate outside of Combat....
I already Dropped out of PP because its annoying that I get Interdicted every 5 Minutes.
And I think I.ll simply abandon Powerplay in General in this Case. If PP is only meant to be an Offmap Arena they could have done this Differently without all the needless in between stuff.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Just my view.
I have stopped playing until the bugs are fixed.
Every play session ends with me having lost millions of credits. I cannot keep that up for long.
I have stopped playing until the bugs are fixed.
Every play session ends with me having lost millions of credits. I cannot keep that up for long.
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