'Attack of the AI' III

[Ziljan]

Ziljan, has someone stolen your account? You know better than this, clearly it's not intended behaviour

Try a different ship, try another location. Could be a problem with the Compromised Nav Beacons (or intended to discourage a lesser pilot from hanging around after they scanned the beacon), could be that the AI scales to your ship and rank.

I would hope this is not intended. But then again 2.0 spin of death was not intended either. I am worried that this is a stealth nerf to AI aggressiveness just to see if we'll notice. Well, I am noticing.

Please note, it's not so much the AI's flying that has been altered, so some people (who are ego driven) won't even notice that they aren't being shot at, and will just assume they are still good pilots. But now the AI is less aggressive, which means they point their guns at us less, and when they do, they miss more than they hit.

If that is not a change to AI, I don't know what is. The example above is just the extreme version of what I have been seeing.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I would hope this is not intended. But then again 2.0 spin of death was not intended either. I am worried that this is a stealth nerf to AI aggressiveness just to see if we'll notice. Well, I am noticing.

Please note, it's not so much the AI's flying that has been altered, so some people (who are ego driven) won't even notice that they aren't being shot at, and will just assume they are still good pilots. But now the AI is less aggressive, which means they point their guns at us less, and when they do, they miss more than they hit.

If that is not a change to AI, I don't know what is. The example above is just the extreme version of what I have been seeing.

There's no change in AI code, trusted sources say. What you most likely see is being matched with lower rankings which *might* have bugs. Report them as intended.

 

[Thetele]

All npc i have met since 2.1 released have only 2 kind of weapon loadouts. No matter if they are pirate, trader, system sec, naval npc, mission target etc. in any ship from sidewinder to anaconda/type 9. Or what their rank is. All of them have either pulse lasers and PA or pulse lasers and dump fire missiles. I haven't yet seen single npc to use multi cannons, heat seekers, mines, frag cannons, cannons, beams, rails etc. Only pulses, pa and dump fire rockets. Also not a single ship with turreted weapons.

Anyone else seeing this? I like the harder npc but i would like to face other kind of npc than npc that always have Pa or dump fires and land every single shot they fire.

Also i still see npc using thermal shock engineer weapon.

 

[Droid8Apple]

So far, for me, the AI are absolutely perfect. Much less aggression, much more sensible maneauvering that's proportional to their stats, do not stay alive for too long but the fights still take a while because they're actually flying instead of not dying. I'm really happy so far.

I've done HR 4979 HAZ RES the entire time as well as V886 Centauri HAZ-RES.

Thank you @SarahJaneAvory this seems much much much much more balanced. The deadly still hurt you too!

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All npc i have met since 2.1 released have only 2 kind of weapon loadouts. No matter if they are pirate, trader, system sec, naval npc, mission target etc. in any ship from sidewinder to anaconda/type 9. All of them have either pulse lasers and PA or pulse lasers and dump fire missiles. I haven't yet seen single npc to use multi cannons, heat seekers, mines, frag cannons, cannons, beams, rails etc. Only pulses, pa and dump fire rockets. Also not a single ship with turreted weapons.

Anyone else seeing this? I like the harder npc but i would like to face other kind of npc than npc that always have Pa or dump fires and land every single shot they fire.

Also i still see npc using thermal shock engineer weapon.

This isn't happening for me. I've been hit with everything since updating this morning.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Definitely not using turrets on my DBS. This is an example of what I was seeing in a Compromised Nav Beacon that was wall to wall Deadly and Dangerous NPCs. Little to no return fire. The few that did fire, missed more than they hit and didn't keep a lock, but just flew past me.

This derpy viper refused to fight back. A pacifist NPC who is wanted and just had his shields stripped by your's truly. 15 minutes later, still no return fire.

This video is a sample of what I am seeing. It is not an isolated incident. The aggressiveness and aim of NPCs has been MASSIVELY reduced.

https://youtu.be/HBbnAaD2iz0

i had an imperial something (they all look alike so not sure but wasnt an eagle) attack me and.... not fire. not once. it tried to ram and it tried to hump my shields but the only thing it fired was chaff. this ship was like it didnt have weapons. i killed it but why interdict if it has no weapons. this was before the current patch so not sure if its fixed but i made a bug report and if i see this again im going to add a screenshot of the subtargets if it doesnt show weapons. or even if it does. ships shouldnt not be firing. especially when they were the ones interdicting. sounds like a bug.

 

[Faded Glory]

I just had a run in with a Master Vulture (as part of a mission), and he was definitely firing at me, and hitting me. With a couple of pulse lasers in my Cobra, I wasn't quite able to get his shields down, so in the end had to use the Cobra's speed advantage to run, which was fine. I did see a system authority message, but they never turned up, and I was there for the best part of 5 minutes.

I imagine the rebalancing will continue, but to be honest, the changes that have been made, whether it's just weapons or more, should let players get out and about in ships that are not simply specced for combat, which is probably necessary for the game.

Perhaps FD should add those souped up NPCs to Arena, since that is all about combat...

 

[Droid8Apple]

There's no change in AI code, trusted sources say. What you most likely see is being matched with lower rankings which *might* have bugs. Report them as intended.

The AI are absolutely different. They do not need an update to change them. They can adjust a lot of things without us noticing and I'm 100% positive these are not the same AI as yesterday. I've dropped my shields from 900mj to 650mj bi weave and they've only been broken once. Yesterday it was ever single fight nearly. Hence the change.

 

[Razorwire]

All npc i have met since 2.1 released have only 2 kind of weapon loadouts. No matter if they are pirate, trader, system sec, naval npc, mission target etc. in any ship from sidewinder to anaconda/type 9. Or what their rank is. All of them have either pulse lasers and PA or pulse lasers and dump fire missiles. I haven't yet seen single npc to use multi cannons, heat seekers, mines, frag cannons, cannons, beams, rails etc. Only pulses, pa and dump fire rockets. Also not a single ship with turreted weapons.

Anyone else seeing this? I like the harder npc but i would like to face other kind of npc than npc that always have Pa or dump fires and land every single shot they fire.

Also i still see npc using thermal shock engineer weapon.

Standard PA causes thermal warning, and tonight I've been facing Beams, Rails, Seekers and Frags as well as Pulses, Dumbfire and PAs. Some turrets, mostly on Python and 'Conda.

 

[Ziljan]

The AI are absolutely different. They do not need an update to change them. They can adjust a lot of things without us noticing and I'm 100% positive these are not the same AI as yesterday. I've dropped my shields from 900mj to 650mj bi weave and they've only been broken once. Yesterday it was ever single fight nearly. Hence the change.

This is absolutely correct, the AI has been gutted. The code may be the same, but the global variables have been changed completely.

Aggressiveness has gone from an 9 down to a 2.
Aim has gone from a 7 down to a 0.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

and i havent noticed any difference - up to the fact i had constant interdictions from npcs above my level (im competent they dangerous and master). i have also had plasma accelerator cannon used on me which i ran from, and railguns, frag cannons multis and lasers of all kinds. one ship had missile but didnt use it. i havent seen a missile launch at all. either i have been too busy and missed it or they never fired any. i have an ecm sat in firegroup 3 which i havent used at all. but the AI is still much tougher for me.

no different to before the 2.1.0.1 or whatever this patch is i mean. i havent a clue what could be going on for others. of course all my combat today was being interdicted - i didnt really intend this ship to go to res sites or compromised beacons so i cant comment on the npc in those places.

 

[Javert]

This is absolutely correct, the AI has been gutted. The code may be the same, but the global variables have been changed completely.

Aggressiveness has gone from an 9 down to a 2.
Aim has gone from a 7 down to a 0.

have you tried some USS to compare? I was looking in various USS earlier. One or two were similar to what you describe but a couple of others were extremely aggressive and Attacked me immediately - lost shields and half my hull and had to flee

 

[WR3ND]

Hey 27% of the players wanted to destroy the game for the other 73%. Ah well. Very glad I didn't buy the lifetime pass now. Not worth it if the game is only fun for 1 week out the year. If want to farm potatoes, I'll move to Idaho.

It really is like some of us are playing two entirely different games by the sound of it. [blah]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, NPCs have only ever managed to take me out twice in active combat in over a year of playing, and not at all in 2.1 so far.

I never was one for farming potatoes very much either, so I've only ever made it to the combat rank of expert. Still not interested.

 

[Ziljan]

have you tried some USS to compare? I was looking in various USS earlier. One or two were similar to what you describe but a couple of others were extremely aggressive and Attacked me immediately - lost shields and half my hull and had to flee

Ive only encountered one reasonably aggressive NPC: an Expert FDL I encountered in Super Cruise. Everywhere else, the NPCs are like a box of kittens. When they bite, it's cute, but harmless. And they spend most of their time half asleep with their bellies exposed.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

The AI are absolutely different. They do not need an update to change them. They can adjust a lot of things without us noticing and I'm 100% positive these are not the same AI as yesterday. I've dropped my shields from 900mj to 650mj bi weave and they've only been broken once. Yesterday it was ever single fight nearly. Hence the change.

What could be changed is NPC outfitting. Due of removal of mods decrease of their caps might cause that impression. I really doubt AI code is changed in any shape or form.

 

[Ziljan]

What could be changed is NPC outfitting. Due of removal of mods decrease of their caps might cause that impression. I really doubt AI code is changed in any shape or form.

It's more than weapons. The AI is completely different. They used to engage in a turning war that was tense and required skill. Now they just float around like in 2.0.

 

[Soon(TM)]

The P-51 Mustang was developed to an RAF specification as a long-range escort fighter for allied bombers - because defending fighters were decimating the allied bombers after the shorter range fighter escort had to turn back....

This Is true, B29's with no fighter escourt were just flying meat bags waiting to be ripped open by the enemy fighters.

Watch the Memphis Belle Movie and you'll get the picture, they were B17s but it's the same principle.

It's a Great movie by the way

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It's more than weapons. The AI is completely different. They used to engage in a turning war that was tense and required skill. Now they just float around like in 2.0.

Then it is a bug. Report it accordingly, with videos. Let QA and devs decide and tell you if that's intentional. I don't think it is.

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Here's another wild guess: Since the AI is (mainly?) controlled client side, could there be a broken script on *some* clients? I could imagine these scripts receive variables from the server from time to time and if a change is needed. Something could have gone wrong with the transmission... This would explain why the experience are so conspicuously different and irrational between different players. This has clearly nothing to do with player skill level anymore. I'd try to rebuy and refit your ship and see what happens.

It is highly likely. It is possible that Mark's bug fix uncovered some other issues.

 

[Jedirogue]

Not noticing any uber weapons being used so well done FD on squashing that one.

The AI is still aggressive but if you pay attention to your surroundings it is very manageable. Overall I think the AI has about the right level of aggression now but new players might still find it far too difficult. Have tried CZ's and HazRes's and the CZ's are quite challenging at times especially when the chaff monkeys come out to play. The continual chaffing forces you to fire with gimbals fixed and can take some time to chip away at shields then hull. Also the shield cell spammers are still there, especially Elite Cutters and these can make you work for your money.

Overall I am happy with the AI.

 

[Ziljan]

Then it is a bug. Report it accordingly, with videos. Let QA and devs decide and tell you if that's intentional. I don't think it is.

I already did report it, and if you scroll back a page or two, you can see the video I posted.

Its not just NPCs that won't return fire. 90% of them are less aggressive, less willing to aim, and less willing to actually fire. It's 2.0 all over again, but minus the spin of death.

They still fire chaff and use SCBs effectively. But I have only seen 1 NPC with 2.1-like capabilities. The rest have been high rank vegetables.

 

[aramil]

It really does look like we are playing different versions of the game...........

I checked out your video and i don't get any of that NPC/AI behaviour, I shoot they shoot back, with twists and turns trying to get on my 6 or charge me down.....

not sure what causes the issue, maybe it's instancing/location based, but you definately are not experiencing the same game as me.

best to see if enough people seeing the issue can report it and give details of location/system/connection etc and hopefully try and narrow it down.

Have you tried using a vpn connection to spoof being elsewhere to see the AI's behaviour changes? (just trying to narrow it down)