The Star Citizen Thread v5

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I'm not quite sure what you are implying. Yes it is in engine, not in game but it is not like it is pre-rendered footage. You can see the devs flying to that station in real-time here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRPHtJcTxUg
If you are suggesting that there will be a large drop in quality when Nyx is implmented in game then I'm going to have to disagree. You can already see the level of detail in ArcCorp and that is 100% in game right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16rZQEKC1RQ

What good are the graphics when the rest of the "game" is so shoddily developed that single indie developers have better basic "fps" mechanics and don't use as many hacks.. I mean placeholders.. to make it seem like you need a "spacesuit" to go into something that isn't even modeled with or without an atmosphere? That's no placeholder, by the way, that is just garbage. Besides the graphics are not a testament to the people at RSI or CIG, they are just putting "super high poly" objects into an engine someone else built and they are licensing from which is a testament to the guys at Crytek and not anyone involved in stapling and gluing together Star Citizen.

I'd love to have a discussion on Star Citizen, but the only thing to discuss is their mistakes, mismanagement, mishandling of everything, just absolute misses on all accounts. Anyone who can look at this and not be incredibly worried, seeing that this is an abject failure has never been involved in any software project and/or has invested so much emotionally into this making their gaming, or even real, life better that they will be absolutely devastated when this thing drops as a released product.

This is less a game for Chris Roberts, I mean look at him playing it - he doesn't even know what the hell is going on and well really no words can fully explain the ineptitude he displays when demoing his own product and he is lost doing it! But this is less a game for Chris Roberts and more a chance for him to put together, terribly, a CGI movie on the computer that people will somewhat play but it will be more cut scenes and mocap nonsense than actual play-ability. Look at his attempt at making a movie - based on his game that was full of cut scenes - he wants that as is evidenced by the fact he doesn't even test out/play his own vision.

Oh, and this PU release (literally the two letter abbreviation says it all right there when sounded out aloud - pee-yew!) is nothing special. It's literally just a database back-end that the client checks against to keep track of the monies the player has, his ship, his ship's loadout, and his clothes (or lack thereof, doesn't matter since they don't do anything anyway). It's nothing more than what other MMO games do - all of them already have this capability simply tracking and retaining your elements you earn, use and equip in-game. That's another reason that it is so ridiculous this thing is getting praised to finally be released. This is one of the first things released in another self-funded/kickstarted, may not make it but is farther along play-ability wise, game called Survarium. Being that it was MMO, the "persistence" was one of the first elements incorporated and that was before v0.50 even dropped. Here SC is at v2.4 and they've crapped out this abomination they call "persistence!"

No, they shouldn't be applauded - they should be stomped on to get their asses in gear and fix this horrid mess. However, from all the absolutely horrible games I've seen come out that promised so much - this one ranks as one of the worst and it is incredibly suspect if they'll manage to pull out even the most basic of half the promises.
 
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This is less a game for Chris Roberts, I mean look at him playing it - he doesn't even know what the hell is going on and well really no words can fully explain the ineptitude he displays when demoing his own product and he is lost doing it! But this is less a game for Chris Roberts and more a chance for him to put together, terribly, a CGI movie on the computer that people will somewhat play but it will be more cut scenes and mocap nonsense than actual playability. Look at his attempt at making a movie - based on his game that was full of cut scenes - he wants that as is evidenced by the fact he doesn't even test out/play his own vision.


Just to focus on what you are saying regarding Chris Roberts, we all hear about how Roberts is this legendary gaming "visionary" who was at the forefront of all his gaming projects and without him, there would be no Wing Commander games and that the sci-fi space game genre would not have caught on without his presence, etc....

Well, let's just have a look-see at his "legacy" shall we?

Wing Commander (1990)
• Design (Amiga, Sega CD)
• Director (Amiga, Sega CD, SNES)
• Graphics/3D Programming (DOS, Amiga)
• Lead design (DOS)
• Programming (DOS, SNES)
• Producer (DOS, Amiga, Sega CD)
• Software Engineer (Amiga, Sega CD)
• Space System (Amiga, Sega CD)
↳ Secret Missions I
• Director (SNES)
• Producer (DOS, SNES)
• Programming (SNES)
↳ Secret Missions II
• Producer
• Programming

Wing Commander II (1991)
• Producer
↳ Special Operations I
• Creative Director
↳ Special Operations II
• Creative Director
↳ CD ROM Edition
• 3D System
• Graphics
• Lead Design
• Producer
Notable absence: script, story, programming, direction, design

Wing Commander: Privateer (1993)
• Executive Producer
• Original Concept
↳ Righteous Fire
— None
Notable absence: script, story, programming, direction, design

Strike Commander (1993)
• Cameras
• Cockpit, HUD, and MFDs
• Director
• Graphics
• Library Code
• Mission Design
• Original Outline
• Producer
• RealSpace System Programming
↳ Tactical Operations
• Producer

Super Wing Commander (1994)
— None, other than for original PC version

Wing Commander III (1994)
• Cast (DOS)
• Director (DOS, 3DO)
• Executive Producer & Director, movies
• Producer (DOS)
• Story (DOS, 3DO)
Notable absence: Any Playstation credit

Wing Commander: Armada (1994)
• Producer
Notable absence: original concept, design, programming, direction

Wing Commander IV (1996)
• Executive Producer
• Director
Notable absence: original concept, design, programming, story

Privateer 2 (1996)
— None.

Wing Commander: Prophecy (1997)
• Special thanks (Windows)

Starlancer (2000)
• Executive Producer

Freelancer (2003)
• Original concept
• Special thanks
Notable absence: producer, (lead) design, direction, programming, story, script

(Please note the parts in bold type.)

So as we can see there, the last truly *meaningful* contribution Chris Roberts had made in a game he had been involved with was Wing Commander III, which was mostly him directing the FMV sequences and writing the story for the game. Nothing at all to do with programming or coding the game. And this was way back in 1994! 22 years ago.
In fact, the last bit of coding and programming he had done was with Strike Commander the year before. The ONLY game where he had a fully hands-on involvement in the whole project was the very first Wing Commander game!

And yet here we are, watching him trying to achieve this goal of making the "BDSSE", and we are seeing a man who for all practical purposes hasn't "made" a game for over 20 years!

Maybe then it's not so surprising when you and many others watched with growing worry and anxiety as Roberts fumbled and stumbled through the disaster that was that Star Citizen livestream last year, looking like a man who had not played a videogame in their entire life, or at least, not in the past decade and a half.
 
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Just to focus on what you are saying regarding Chris Roberts, we all hear about how Roberts is this legendary gaming "visionary" who was at the forefront of all his gaming projects and without him, there would be no Wing Commander games and that the sci-fi space game genre would not have caught on without his presence, etc....

Well, let's just have a look-see at his "legacy" shall we?



(Please note the parts in bold type.)

So as we can see there, the last truly *meaningful* contribution Chris Roberts had made in a game he had been involved with was Wing Commander III, which was mostly him directing the FMV sequences and writing the story for the game. Nothing at all to do with programming or coding the game. And this was way back in 1994! 22 years ago.
In fact, the last bit of coding and programming he had done was with Strike Commander the year before. The ONLY game where he had a fully hands-on involvement in the whole project was the very first Wing Commander game!

And yet here we are, watching him trying to achieve this goal of making the "BDSSE", and we are seeing a man who for all practical purposes hasn't "made" a game for over 20 years!

Maybe then it's not so surprising when you and many others watched with growing worry and anxiety as Roberts fumbled and stumbled through the disaster that was that Star Citizen livestream last year, looking like a man who had not played a videogame in their entire life, or at least, not in the past decade and a half.

Not forgetting there were publishers to keep him in check of the scope and schedule, else I doubt any of those titles would have seen daylight.
 
I fail to see the point in not showing just how *many* of these bugs, which apparently CIG will fix in no time at all, exist within a "game" which was supposed to be released some 18 months ago.

In fact some of these self same bugs have been around in SC since 2013(!), and during all that time CIG seem to have shown a marked inability to deal with them and squash them accordingly.

So I posted a bug report vid. Now tell me, what confidence do *you* have in CIG's ability to solve the bug(s) shown in that clip? More over, tell me what confidence you have in CIG to deal with the vast *majority* of all the bugs that appear like wildfire on the "Issue Council" list?

Having a post that is sole a single link to a unlisted bug report video, with no accompanying text, seems to be a great way of articulating your point.

Oh wait no it didn't.

When you could have easily added "the"same bugs have been around in SC since 2013(!), and during all that time CIG seem to have shown a marked inability to deal with them and squash them accordingly."

Here is a link to the this issue council you can see for your self

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha

This has nothing to do with whether *I* have confidence in CIG's ability to solve the bug(s) shown in that clip, it is about if you are gong to make a point, actually make the point and don't juts post video without context and expect everyone to understand that the heck you are on about.

Otherwise what can anyone infer but that you are being smug about bug reports being bug report, oh shock horror in that.

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I fail to see the point in not showing just how *many* of these bugs, which apparently CIG will fix in no time at all, exist within a "game" which was supposed to be released some 18 months ago.

In fact some of these self same bugs have been around in SC since 2013(!), and during all that time CIG seem to have shown a marked inability to deal with them and squash them accordingly.

So I posted a bug report vid. Now tell me, what confidence do *you* have in CIG's ability to solve the bug(s) shown in that clip? More over, tell me what confidence you have in CIG to deal with the vast *majority* of all the bugs that appear like wildfire on the "Issue Council" list?

Having a post that is sole a single link to a unlisted bug report video, with no accompanying text, seems to be a great way of articulating your point.

Oh wait no it didn't.

When you could have easily added "the"same bugs have been around in SC since 2013(!), and during all that time CIG seem to have shown a marked inability to deal with them and squash them accordingly."

Here is a link to the this issue council you can see for your self

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha

This has nothing to do with whether *I* have confidence in CIG's ability to solve the bug(s) shown in that clip, it is about if you are gong to make a point, actually make the point and don't juts post video without context and expect everyone to understand that the heck you are on about.

Otherwise what can anyone infer but that you are being smug about bug reports being bug report, oh shock horror in that.
 
About the new COD being the "real" Wing Commander" spiritual successor: lol, just lol.

COD is a fps game with some missions involving (1) ship alone (customizable in 4/5 setups). While Squadron42 (just like in Wing Commander) will reward your progression with access to bigger/better ships, new missions depending how you play (and if you let your wing-mates die or survive) etc. It will be basically Wing Commander on steroids while Star Citizen will be more like Freelancer/Privateer on steroids.

Besides, in COD the flight model is secondary, it starts by letting you freely fly (but you have a set path to go) and then when you reach the "hot zone" you kill some baddies, a cutscene activates and then your ship fly's on rails while you just focus on gimbals aiming. In terms of gameplay COD will follow the same formula (that earns them billions) as this is what the loyal targeted "console young players" demographic fan-base expects.
yNtadai.png

With that said I believe it will be no match for Squadron42 in both scope, technical/graphical features, story branching, acting, script and ofc overall fidelity. It will however sell more copies as it's market share is way bigger and consolidated, despite that they still spend 80% of their budget in marketing isntead of focusing on game dev.


About what will be shown @ Gamescom2016:
(my take)

- New HangaReady/Flyable ships: Caterpillar(H), Herald(H), Reliant(F), Dragonfly(F).
- Live Demo of Procedural Planets System (Crusader/PU expansion)
- Planetary Landings (New landing locations, Nyx/Levsky, Pirate's Home, Hurston, Terra and an unseen location).
- Squadron42 Live demo play, maybe the finalized Morrow tour starting mission, hopefully a new one showcasing Dogfighting/FPS (Shubin Station).
- Arena Commander Boot for LAN gameplay
- Star Marine Boot for LAN gameplay


Conserning Chris Roberts acualades as a game developer I believe that Times of Lore is worth a mention.
As the UI design inspired Richard Garriot to use them on is later Ultima Games. Wing Comander 2 was just produced by him per the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_(game_developer)
 
Having a post that is sole a single link to a unlisted bug report video, with no accompanying text, seems to be a great way of articulating your point.

Oh wait no it didn't.

When you could have easily added "the"same bugs have been around in SC since 2013(!), and during all that time CIG seem to have shown a marked inability to deal with them and squash them accordingly."

Here is a link to the this issue council you can see for your self

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha

This has nothing to do with whether *I* have confidence in CIG's ability to solve the bug(s) shown in that clip, it is about if you are gong to make a point, actually make the point and don't juts post video without context and expect everyone to understand that the heck you are on about.

Otherwise what can anyone infer but that you are being smug about bug reports being bug report, oh shock horror in that.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Having a post that is sole a single link to a unlisted bug report video, with no accompanying text, seems to be a great way of articulating your point.

Oh wait no it didn't.

When you could have easily added "the"same bugs have been around in SC since 2013(!), and during all that time CIG seem to have shown a marked inability to deal with them and squash them accordingly."

Here is a link to the this issue council you can see for your self

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council/star-citizen-alpha

This has nothing to do with whether *I* have confidence in CIG's ability to solve the bug(s) shown in that clip, it is about if you are gong to make a point, actually make the point and don't juts post video without context and expect everyone to understand that the heck you are on about.

Otherwise what can anyone infer but that you are being smug about bug reports being bug report, oh shock horror in that.



Hello? Why are you repeating yourself?
 
About the new COD being the "real" Wing Commander" spiritual successor: lol, just lol.

COD is a fps game with some missions involving (1) ship alone (customizable in 4/5 setups). While Squadron42 (just like in Wing Commander) will reward your progression with access to bigger/better ships, new missions depending how you play (and if you let your wing-mates die or survive) etc. It will be basically Wing Commander on steroids while Star Citizen will be more like Freelancer/Privateer on steroids.

Besides, in COD the flight model is secondary, it starts by letting you freely fly (but you have a set path to go) and then when you reach the "hot zone" you kill some baddies, a cutscene activates and then your ship fly's on rails while you just focus on gimbals aiming. In terms of gameplay COD will follow the same formula (that earns them billions) as this is what the loyal targeted "console young players" demographic fan-base expects.
With that said I believe it will be no match for Squadron42 in both scope, technical/graphical features, story branching, acting, script and ofc overall fidelity. It will however sell more copies as it's market share is way bigger and consolidated, despite that they still spend 80% of their budget in marketing isntead of focusing on game dev.


About what will be shown @ Gamescom2016:
(my take)

- New HangaReady/Flyable ships: Caterpillar(H), Herald(H), Reliant(F), Dragonfly(F).
- Live Demo of Procedural Planets System (Crusader/PU expansion)
- Planetary Landings (New landing locations, Nyx/Levsky, Pirate's Home, Hurston, Terra and an unseen location).
- Squadron42 Live demo play, maybe the finalized Morrow tour starting mission, hopefully a new one showcasing Dogfighting/FPS (Shubin Station).
- Arena Commander Boot for LAN gameplay
- Star Marine Boot for LAN gameplay


Conserning Chris Roberts acualades as a game developer I believe that Times of Lore is worth a mention.
As the UI design inspired Richard Garriot to use them on is later Ultima Games. Wing Comander 2 was just produced by him per the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_(game_developer)


Okay, sure - CoD is a crap series. I doubt IW is going to do more than be an instant action ADHD space shoot 'em up.

BUT, and here's the kicker: Show us something recent of any Squadron 42 gameplay. Any action in Squadron 42. Anything from Squadron 42 that makes anything from CoD: IW look worse. I guess I have to qualify that with actual recent in-game footage. Not whatever is in your head, or in Chris Robert's head, or whatever he textually crapped out on the interwebs.
 
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despite that they still spend 80% of their budget in marketing isntead of focusing on game dev.]

yeah, I sure wish CIG would stop spending all that money on marketing and - oh, you mean Infinity Ward. Considering they are showing some great looking stuff that is set for release soon, I'd say they managed to focus just fine on game dev. They are professionals who actually deliver games, after all. Unlike some failed filmmaker dilettante who hasn't truly delivered a game in ages and took credit for his brother and Origin's work on half of his 90s resume.

I wouldn't be boasting about the majesty of the Squadron 42 script. I mean, have you read the leak? It's childish garbage written by a pair of amateurs with very unimpressive credits.

As far as acting goes, if they can make Gary Oldman - one of our best character actors - come off looking tired and sad, I wouldn't be so quick to expect miracles in that department either. This is where being a good director would help. By all available evidence, Chris Roberts is not, has not, and will NEVER be a good director. Mocap does NOT lend itself to stellar performances by those inexperienced in directing it.

Hearing about their trouble integrating all the mocap data isn't surprising in the least.
 
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Well I guess you will have to wait for Gamescom in August and CitizenCom in October, but even with the SQ42 reveals it will be the procedural tech planets / asteroids jaw-dropping showcase that will steal the show. The gaming world will collectively be amazed, shocked and confused. But mostly amazed.
 
Well I guess you will have to wait for Gamescom in August and CitizenCom in October, but even with the SQ42 reveals it will be the procedural tech planets / asteroids jaw-dropping showcase that will steal the show. The gaming world will collectively be amazed, shocked and confused. But mostly amazed.

Absolutely confused. I'm currently confused where you even get the notion that is going to happen when they can't even get the crapfest known as SC 2.4 Pee-Yew to work even half-buttcheeked.
 
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Okay, sure - CoD is a crap series. I doubt IW is going to do more than be an instant action ADHD space shoot 'em up.

BUT, and here's the kicker: Show us something recent of any Squadron 42 gameplay. Any action in Squadron 42. Anything from Squadron 42 that makes anything from CoD: IW look worse. I guess I have to qualify that with actual recent in-game footage. Not whatever is in your head, or in Chris Robert's head, or whatever he textually crapped out on the interwebs.

I don't think anyone is arguing that we haven't seen anything regarding SQ42 since the Morrow tour; it doesn't mean that it isn't being actively worked on however. Let's see what CIG show at Gamescom, there is almost certainly going to be some SQ42 news.
 
I don't think anyone is arguing that we haven't seen anything regarding SQ42 since the Morrow tour; it doesn't mean that it isn't being actively worked on however. Let's see what CIG show at Gamescom, there is almost certainly going to be some SQ42 news.

So again, nothing. If they had something to show, just even something to get many to regain faith in this floundering failure of game development - they would drop a small teaser. Something recent, up-to-date. The best they drop is SC 2.4 Pee-Yew. That's the best they've got. It's not getting better 2 to 3 months from now.
 
Making a single-player campaign game is way way way way easier than doing a Online Universe for thousands / millions of players to inhabit. Most of the bug's/glitches reported are network/dsync/performance related problems. Those will be dealt with the new improved network tech builds. Besides in alpha stage you focus on blockers, not polish, it doesn't matter if your head disappears or your thumb gets all wonky lol, those are the very last fixes but will still happen in the release build to someone, just like in other games.
 
Either I didn't think you'd listen the first time, or I got a double post the forum didn't pick up.
I am sure you can figure out which it is.

Well, you're correct with one thing here...

I *didn't* listen to your self-righteous spiel. Thanks for that "attempt" though.

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Making a single-player campaign game is way way way way easier than doing a Online Universe for thousands / millions of players to inhabit. Most of the bug's/glitches reported are network/dsync/performance related problems. Those will be dealt with the new improved network tech builds. Besides in alpha stage you focus on blockers, not polish, it doesn't matter if your head disappears or your thumb gets all wonky lol, those are the very last fixes but will still happen in the release build to someone, just like in other games.



Prokar, this game *isn't* an Alpha build. For this to be such, then the majority of the proposed game's core play elements should already be implemented.

Can you *really* tell the people who are playing the current 2.4 PU that this is the case? Really?
 
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Making a single-player campaign game is way way way way easier than doing a Online Universe for thousands / millions of players to inhabit. Most of the bug's/glitches reported are network/dsync/performance related problems. Those will be dealt with the new improved network tech builds. Besides in alpha stage you focus on blockers, not polish, it doesn't matter if your head disappears or your thumb gets all wonky lol, those are the very last fixes but will still happen in the release build to someone, just like in other games.

Hearing this is like Deja Vu around these parts. November/early December 2014 folks around here were claiming that what we had been playing were vertical slices and that what Elite: Dangerous was going to launch day 1 of Gold would include all these various other features...that only existed in the minds of backers as wishful thinking, hopes, and dreams. The reality was something that was very different. Star Citizen is no different and maybe even worse since CR has rarely said "no" in those 10FT* videos as well as it taking them so much longer to get things out. People have been playing Star Citizen in their own minds eye, what they think hope and dream it will be rather than the reality of what is. You should take note from those of us who watched things unfold here the past 2 years or so because the complaints you see people making about Elite now...this is your future. Because when reality hits that is going to be different than 100,000 backers 100,000 differ hopes and dreams. Well butter up some popcorn because there will be plenty of salt to go around.
 
Alpha, Pre-Alpha whatever, it's a game in development, actually 2 games. What we see/play is just a portion of what they work on. Every Gamescon/Citizencon/Pax showcases something new: Assets, tech, visual/game/design direction/content. This will be no different.
 
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