The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Ian Skippy]

This is behavior you can see of any fanboy and isn't something limited to SC, if CR or a dev of CIG states something as being an achievement you either have the perspective of seeing it as an achievement in the development of SC specifically or you apply it to different things it wasn't ment to be directed at, e.g. while "persistence" is a fundamental part of every MMO it is also an achievement/milestone having it implemented in the course of development of a MMO.

Did we really come to a point to where we need to compare things that aren't comparable? 64k is a completely different subject, it's like comparing ingame cinematics to modern CGI movies or comparing ingame footage to prerendered footage (not related to SC). It's just grasping for straws to have an argument.

But 'a milestone for the development' does not mean you have to rave and brag about it, certainly not when something as central as 'persistence' is only partially added after four years of development. I am sure "being able to open a door without a good chance of instantly dying" is a milestone too if they ever get there, but it sure isnt something they should be proud of at this point either. Its that combination of doing standard things that literally every other mmo has done years after intending to release the entire game and presenting it as some kind of accomplishment anyway that is annoying as heck. Remember that the 100 systems should have been done in 2014? Then 2015? Then 2016? Now we're gonna get a second system (hopefully) in 2017, and already you know they're gonna present it as a massive accomplishment again. If two years after the deadline you've done 2% of the work, 'being humble' is the only correct attitude.

As for graphics, lets just ask this: do you think that the water shown in SC looks 'amazing' or 'meh'? Because from my perspective, that looks very much 'meh' when you compare it with pretty much anything recent. I certainly wouldnt call it 'state of the art' or 'top notch'.

 

[Tippis]

Do you have an actual quote/source for that statement? Again sounds like something a fanboy would say...

It is, and that's kind of the whole point: the fanboys represent one of the most significant threats against SC ever getting off the ground. Their zealotry is driving people away — people that CIG desperately need in order to be able to finish the game.

Now you're being ungenuine, SC's graphics are top notch, stating anything else makes me question your perception of reality.

He's not, though. CIG has on repeated occasions trotted out something that is supposed to dazzle and awe, and which makes the fanboys fawn, but which actually look pretty poor next to what other games were presenting many years ago. Even when they produce something that is high quality and looks good in isolation, the actual visual design is some of the most dull and generic stuff you'll encounter, again because it looks like every other derivative space game we've seen in the last decade, only at higher resolution. And as the years keep piling on, not even that high quality will survive for long — games are already out that look just as good or better. “Top notch” has a very short shelf life.

Did we really come to a point to where we need to compare things that aren't comparable? 64k is a completely different subject, it's like comparing ingame cinematics to modern CGI movies or comparing ingame footage to prerendered footage (not related to SC).

It's nothing like that at all, and in what way are they not comparable? It's game assets compared to game assets; it's real-time rendering compared to real-time rendering; it showy graphics engine tricks compared to showy graphics engine tricks. At no point does SC offer more fidelity or scope than what others have already produced. The fact that some of it is made in a 64k intro format just hammers the point that this is such an easy thing to accomplish these days that the only way to make it truly impressive is to make it intentionally difficult by adding really silly constraints. It's like this guy, creating that whole scene using only a single low-res texture.

 

[darkoff]

This is behavior you can see of any fanboy and isn't something limited to SC, if CR or a dev of CIG states something as being an achievement you either have the perspective of seeing it as an achievement in the development of SC specifically or you apply it to different things it wasn't ment to be directed at, e.g. while "persistence" is a fundamental part of every MMO it is also an achievement/milestone having it implemented in the course of development of a MMO. If SC ever gets released and one of the devs or CR state something fundamental as being "groundbreaking" or an achievement in games development in general i will be the first to retract my statements.



Do you have an actual quote/source for that statement? Again sounds like something a fanboy would say...



Now you're being ungenuine, SC's graphics are top notch, stating anything else makes me question your perception of reality.



Did we really come to a point to where we need to compare things that aren't comparable? 64k is a completely different subject, it's like comparing ingame cinematics to modern CGI movies or comparing ingame footage to prerendered footage (not related to SC). It's just grasping for straws to have an argument.

The difference with Hello Games and CIG is that CIG hasn't had a problem to correct expectations (even if a little late), while Hello Games kept the expectations high and wouldn't even retract on its statements after release of the game.

First you accuse us for being SC fanboys (hilarious statement because you cant even see the the comparison images between xbox360 game and pg tech of sc) then you talk about how sc has lower amount of expectations to fulfill than no man sky. The game has        g pages worth of unimplemented features condensed in a list. while no man sky has only half a page worth of features missing from a final product.
Im sorry but your statement just seem delusional for me . Can you base your arguments in facts next time please.

 

[IceGryphon]

But 'a milestone for the development' does not mean you have to rave and brag about it, certainly not when something as central as 'persistence' is only partially added after four years of development. I am sure "being able to open a door without a good chance of instantly dying" is a milestone too if they ever get there, but it sure isnt something they should be proud of at this point either. Its that combination of doing standard things that literally every other mmo has done years after intending to release the entire game and presenting it as some kind of accomplishment anyway that is annoying as heck. Remember that the 100 systems should have been done in 2014? Then 2015? Then 2016? Now we're gonna get a second system (hopefully) in 2017, and already you know they're gonna present it as a massive accomplishment again. If two years after the deadline you've done 2% of the work, 'being humble' is the only correct attitude.

Please provide a source having CR or a dev bragging about "a milestone for the development". I won't go into a discussion of the duration of development of SC as i find it a moot point to begin with. You fail to see that the estimated release date of Star Citizen from its initial campaign is a date that has become obsolete and unrealistic with the continued funding and statement of CR to put every pledged dollar into making the game a better and higher quality experience (of course this doesn't immediately in a game that's still in alpha). I agree that CIG should have been more open about this and made a statement declaring it as specifically obsolete, even though this should have been pretty clear looking at the published roadmaps for the development of SC that haven't showed a estimated 2014 release date of the game for quite some time. There was no deadline, that's what you fail to see, you also fail to see the importance of tool development which effectively drives productivity.

As for graphics, lets just ask this: do you think that the water shown in SC looks 'amazing' or 'meh'? Because from my perspective, that looks very much 'meh' when you compare it with pretty much anything recent. I certainly wouldnt call it 'state of the art' or 'top notch'.

The water looks "meh", i actually think that the procedural planets at this point look "meh" and don't think that the "new" stuff they're going to show at CitizenCon will look that much different, but than again, SC is in development and most things are still WIP, of course there will be initial implementations to not only show of progress, but to be able to progress internally.

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http://i.somethingawful.com/u/garbageday/2013/goldmine/hybrid_pokemon/Everdraed_01.gif
First you accuse us for being SC fanboys (hilarious statement because you cant even see the the comparison images between xbox360 game and pg tech of sc) then you talk about how sc has lower amount of expectations to fulfill than no man sky. The game has g pages worth of unimplemented features condensed in a list. while no man sky has only half a page worth of features missing from a final product.
Im sorry but your statement just seem delusional for me . Can you base your arguments in facts next time please.

Please show where i accused anyone here of being a SC fanboy. Never said SC has a lower amount of expectations to fulfill, please provide a quote of me saying that.

 

[AJW]

And off we go again. Round and round in circles, as one SC evangelist claims the game is almost finished, while the next one tells us it is still in early development - and neither can tell us when it is going to be released, because CIG won't say. Because it is more profitable to keep the game in development than to release something which can't possibly meet the hype.

 

[darkoff]

Please show where i accused anyone here of being a SC fanboy. Never said SC has a lower amount of expectations to fulfill, please provide a quote of me saying that.

This is behavior you can see of any fanboy and isn't something limited to SC, if CR or a dev of CIG states something as being an achievement you either have the perspective of seeing it as an achievement in the development of SC specifically or you apply it to different things it wasn't ment to be directed at, e.g. while "persistence" is a fundamental part of every MMO it is also an achievement/milestone having it implemented in the course of development of a MMO. If SC ever gets released and one of the devs or CR state something fundamental as being "groundbreaking" or an achievement in games development in general i will be the first to retract my statements.



Do you have an actual quote/source for that statement? Again sounds like something a fanboy would say...



Now you're being ungenuine, SC's graphics are top notch, stating anything else makes me question your perception of reality.



Did we really come to a point to where we need to compare things that aren't comparable? 64k is a completely different subject, it's like comparing ingame cinematics to modern CGI movies or comparing ingame footage to prerendered footage (not related to SC). It's just grasping for straws to have an argument.

The difference with Hello Games and CIG is that CIG hasn't had a problem to correct expectations (even if a little late), while Hello Games kept the expectations high and wouldn't even retract on its statements after release of the game.

did they retract 2014 release date? nope
was star marine going to be released in two week like they stated? nope
did 2015 release date come to fruition? nope
will sq42 be released in 2016? maybe but then it would contradict with kickstarter backer having earlier access to beta and alpha stage builds of the thing.

and thats just the tip of iceberg of chris roberts lies

 

[Toumal]

Packing is also part of it. If you want to even fit the code for that much of a demo into 64k, you start having to get pretty creative in how to encode it.

Sure, and this is part of the reaspn antivirus heuristics regularly flag demos as potential threat.

My point with Farbrausch however is that the core tech is PG. They start with simple simple algorithms to establish shapes and texture layers. Packing is just another step in the process, and in fact certain versions of Werkzeug let you skip it.

Farbrausch very rarely use stored bitmaps or wave samples. You can make a plasma cloud texture and save it as a bitmap - but you will never beat using diamond square or similar algorithms with a given random seed in terms of size efficiency.

Check out how they defined the brickwall textures in "Debris". It's really cool.

 

[Dementropy]

The difference with Hello Games and CIG is that CIG hasn't had a problem to correct expectations (even if a little late), while Hello Games kept the expectations high and wouldn't even retract on its statements after release of the game.

Hello Games is also in the unfortunate position of actually having released a product.

 

[IceGryphon]

did they retract 2014 release date? nope
was star marine going to be released in two week like they stated? nope
did 2015 release date come to fruition? nope
will sq42 be released in 2016? maybe but then it would contradict with kickstarter backer having earlier access to beta and alpha stage builds of the thing.

and thats just the tip of iceberg of chris roberts lies

Did they retract 2014 release date? Yes, they showed updated roadmaps at the time, which should make it pretty clear that 2014 isn't the release date anymore.
was star marine going to be released in two week like they stated? Not relevant as Star Marine is not the game people payed for.
did 2015 release date come to fruition? There was no 2015 release date, a schedule/roadmap or estimated release date is not the same as an actual release date.
will sq42 be released in 2016? No, it won't and this will be the first time they actually slip a release date as a release in 2016 (not estimated) was advertised in a trailer.

Regarding the missinterpretation of my statements:
"CIG hasn't had a problem to correct expectations (even if a little late), while Hello Games kept the expectations high"
how does this imply that one set of expectations was higher than the other?

"This is behavior you can see of any fanboy and isn't something limited to SC"
I was referring to fanboys in general and not to anyone in this thread, the context to statement i replied to should be pretty clear.

"sounds like something a fanboy"
Again this statement refers to the quoted part of the statement i replied to and should have been obvious.Please stop quoting me out of context.

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Hello Games is also in the unfortunate position of actually having released a product.

True.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Did they retract 2014 release date? Yes, they showed updated roadmaps at the time, which should make it pretty clear that 2014 isn't the release date anymore.

Yup, they did. You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ej6u1h7ZEg&feature=youtu.be&t=1h32m53s

So, did you like the release of Sq42 last year? And looking forward to the commerical release of Star Citizen later this year?

Oh, wait...

 

[IceGryphon]

Yup, they did. You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ej6u1h7ZEg&feature=youtu.be&t=1h32m53s

So, did you like the release of Sq42 last year? And looking forward to the commerical release of Star Citizen later this year?

Oh, wait...

Again, you fail to see the difference between a roadmap or estimated release date and an actual release date.

 

[Pharaelga]

This thread is hilarious.... which is why I keep coming back. The only reason I stumbled upon this thread was because I wanted more information on Star Citizen and wondered what people who played Elite (another space game that I enjoyed) thought of it.

I got SC alpha sucks CR can't produce anything, the flight model and ship design are bunk. The game has worse graphics than XBOX360. It's all schemes and conspiracies that's the only way the public would support such trash to the tune of 122 million.

I see the LIGHT!!!!

BUT then I didn't because I actually you know played the alpha....

The amount of contempt here is mind boggling which is like I said earlier the big draw to it.

 

[darkoff]

Did they retract 2014 release date? Yes, they showed updated roadmaps at the time, which should make it pretty clear that 2014 isn't the release date anymore.
was star marine going to be released in two week like they stated? Not relevant as Star Marine is not the game people payed for.
did 2015 release date come to fruition? There was no 2015 release date, a schedule/roadmap or estimated release date is not the same as an actual release date.
will sq42 be released in 2016? No, it won't and this will be the first time they actually slip a release date as a release in 2016 (not estimated) was advertised in a trailer.

Regarding the missinterpretation of my statements:
"CIG hasn't had a problem to correct expectations (even if a little late), while Hello Games kept the expectations high"
how does this imply that one set of expectations was higher than the other?

"This is behavior you can see of any fanboy and isn't something limited to SC"
I was referring to fanboys in general and not to anyone in this thread, the context to statement i replied to should be pretty clear.

"sounds like something a fanboy"
Again this statement refers to the quoted part of the statement i replied to and should have been obvious.Please stop quoting me out of context.

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True.

Do show me those updated roadmaps, because i haventh seen a roadmap for a while now. I too could write up a next week style roadmap that gets changed in weekly basis, mainly updating the date of presentation.
also damn you haventh paid for star marine? what else could cig scratch off from their feature list because its not been payed by anyone.


you compare cig to hello games and tell that problem was that hello games kept expectations high. And then you fail to see that Cig is doing the same thing.
and cig has had plenty of problems with correcting expectations.

Basically we should expect more buggier b-grade game out of cig. based on what we have seen so far.
With contend amount of typical d-grade AAA game. And mocap cinematic single player story that one could fit in a movie. (that is if they get sq42 done before money runs out)
The gameplay of sq42 is currently unknown because there hasnt been gameplay trailer of it.
I might have been too generous with that b-grade however and the contend amount depends on how much longer this trainwreck continues.

 

[Zetta]

Michael Graf from Gamestar.de put a new video up, he states that Squadron 42 will not be coming this year

Chris stated in an interview that all content for Squadron42 (graphics, missions) will be complete by the end of the year. There is still more work to do concerning some basic systems like the AI or the coversystem for infiltration missions. Those will take more time.

Video translation

Ever so often people ask me whether Star Citizen will be a great game and I just don't know, but I hope. The project gets more and more impressive with every Alpha version and demo but is still lightyears away from a functioning online game. With Crowdfunding numbers and ambitions of the devs growing the challenge for the devs rises as well; they've got a lot of work to do.

I think some players have a little bit of a wrong idea what Star Citizen is, it has more of an online roleplay game to it than you might think. You have to enjoy exploring the universe together with other players, looking for quests and adventures on your own and coming up with your own stories. You have to like needing a lot of time walking from one place to another on a single space station; or having to wait because your copilot is talking to a client. Star Citizen will live on me (and my friends) being able to put oneself in my role's position as pirate, trader, mercenary, explorer or whatever else. If you're looking for a classic and entertaining space sim then you should focus on Squadron 42. The single player campaign will be Chris Roberts' first criterion. It will show whether the game mechanics and the engine work. And maybe it will finally release next year, atleast that's what Chris Roberts -not guarantee- hoped for when I was talking to him.
A few backers I have spoken to are disappointed about this slow progress; I can understand that. A lot people are as excited as on the first day though. And they are planning now what they might want to do in the online universe not even knowing when it will be ready. Chris Roberts can't answer that either. I understand this enthusiam aswell! For me, Star Citizen still is what I wrote about it in my first preview in 2012: spaceship . I dig those detailed ships and their sharp textures and computer voices. I like seeing the hands of my pilot when climbing into my cockpit. And that's why I enjoy playing the PU Alpha even if you actually cannot do that much in it. It is a small insight in this online universe and it lets me dream about playing this in an online environment with thousands other pilots whose ships I as pirate will all blow up.
I can salute CR's team what they accomplished to far, 64bit CryEngine and physicalized grids. And I am looking forward to land on planets and work with the rudimentary professions in the 3.0 Alpha if/when it releases at the end of the year. But I would not advise anyone to spend money on this game right now; everyone should make a decision on their own. Because, money that you spend on Star Citizen is spent on a dream; I hope this dream becomes reality; but I can't say for sure.
​

 

[Ian Skippy]

Again, you fail to see the difference between a roadmap or estimated release date and an actual release date.

Sure. He promised to release end 2014. He had a stretch goal that promised to release it before that. It was met. He didnt release in 2014, even though people specifically gave him money based on his promise to deliver early. He didnt release in 2015 either. He did say they were planning to release the first episode of Sq42 within 8 months and SC the next year. Guess what: that didnt happen either. Then the new aim was to release the first episode of SQ42 in 2016, and we stopped talking about releasing SC altogether. It doesnt look like SQ releases this year either, so we'll move that to 2017 with SC releasing in 2018? 2019? Next decade?

If your roadmap says 'we'll be done in a year', and five years later your roadmap says 'we'll be done in a bunch of years', something went horribly wrong.

 

[Neo-ST]

Michael Graf from Gamestar.de put a new video up, he states that Squadron 42 will not be coming this year


Video translation

What a shock !!

 

[Asp Explorer]

BUT then I didn't because I actually you know played the alpha....

And so did the overwhelming majority of us

 

[IceGryphon]

Do show me those updated roadmaps, because i haventh seen a roadmap for a while now. I too could write up a next week style roadmap that gets changed in weekly basis, mainly updating the date of presentation.
also damn you haventh paid for star marine? what else could cig scratch off from their feature list because its not been payed by anyone.

People in this thread have already posted an example for an updated roadmap which doesn't show a 2014 release date. Regarding Star Marine, the release of a specific feature during the development of SC is irrelevant to the discussion of the release date of the actual game (as there is none, except for the 2016 release date of SQ42).

you compare cig to hello games and tell that problem was that hello games kept expectations high. And then you fail to see that Cig is doing the same thing.
and cig has had plenty of problems with correcting expectations.

Even if CIG had or has plenty of problems with correcting expectations (of course they have as hearing SC release will be a MVP version fanboys won't swallow lightly), they still try to correct expectations before the actual release of the game, something Hello Games haven't done, would you agree on that?

Basically we should expect more buggier b-grade game out of cig. based on what we have seen so far.
With contend amount of typical d-grade AAA game. And mocap cinematic single player story that one could fit in a movie. (that is if they get sq42 done before money runs out)
The gameplay of sq42 is currently unknown because there hasnt been gameplay trailer of it.
I might have been too generous with that b-grade however and the contend amount depends on how much longer this trainwreck continues.

If that's what you expect, so be it.

 

[Zetta]

What a shock !!

Indeed It seems there were a good deal of people convinced that CitizenCon would contain an announcement for a holiday release.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Hmm, the translation of that video was interesting. Sad that they have missed the 2016 release for Sq42. When CR said on the BBC segment that they really hoped / needed to have it out by end of year, I expected that to be the case...

The other thing of interest was what I have suspected might be a new narrative ahead of MVP release: "The gameplay in SC is limitless, because it is mainly formed in the imagination of you and your friends..."