The Star Citizen Thread v5
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AKA the sunk cost fallacy.
I would assume that none of the folks with a lot riding on Star Citizen are poker players - not that I play much but if you don't learn very quickly to fold if necessary, however much you've put in the pot, you'll lose a lot.
Wait, what?
Hosting costs should have been factored in to the budget at the very beginning - or, rather, at the point where the project morphed into a kinda-MMO. And he's mentioning petabytes of data, and the cost - well, wouldn't be so much of a problem if patching was optimised, would it?
And judging what extra stuff to add ("size of team" and "ambition") going on monthly income/ship sales? This late in development?
That's it, final straw. I'm done. I can't see any way that this won't end up as a dumpster fire while Chris Roberts is calling the shots.
EDIT: FWIW although previously highly skeptical, benefit of doubt said that there's a game in there if the specs could be nailed down. Highly unlikely that this will happen with CR in charge.
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I wouldn't know it, and wouldn't want to know about it
P.S.
If you haven't seen before, another long but good *MUST READ* article on SC:
http://imgur.com/a/WpXMe
Just a small excerpt
First, funny reason for the edit.
I guess the backers are much more patient and generous than Microsoft.
Imagine just for a second (I'm making this up as I go) that they've blown most of the money on a Hollywood dream, and they want to keep whats left. They are a for profit company after all.
They use staff on zero-hours contracts and call in as many as they can comfortably pay for the month ahead based on ship sales of the preceding month, without cutting into their own salaries, basic running costs and a reasonable profit margin.
If people don't pledge enough development slows down as the first casualty of a bad month is next months staffing level, and CiG then complain about running costs and hawk subscriptions and have ship sales and blatantly tell the backers it's their fault for lacking faith and that they'll never get their game unless they stump up just a bit more cash.
This would work on a certain type of customer, who we all know are heavily into this already.
I do think the "internet love interest" analogy was hilariously spot on.
"Yes I'd love to come visit you - but I need money for a visa. Yes, I know you sent me money last week but I had to pay for my aunties nostril therapy. I'd get there and be with you sooner if you'd buy me an Idris. Oh, and don't forget the processing fee!"
"Yes I'd love to come visit you - but I need money for a visa. Yes, I know you sent me money last week but I had to pay for my aunties nostril therapy. I'd get there and be with you sooner if you'd buy me an Idris. Oh, and don't forget the processing fee!"
if those who say they are donating are for real, then they shouldn't object to the ships they got for it being easy to obtain in game. In the logical extreme, they should also not object to it if CIG retracted access to those ships, though that's hardly likely.
if there are people like this, then I think I agree with you.
Yes - that was always my litmus test too - if it's a donation then presumably they shouldn't be bothered about getting anything in return - or what anyone else gets.
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I have never understood peoples motivations for skipping content. Why purchases larger ships and packages? You are bypassing the content of the game, in order to jump to a point that you might not actually like. And then to what end? Its not like you are going to have a feeling of accomplishment, its not like you earned that ship.
This is my thought too. But then, tonnes of people cheat in every game and I don't understand how people can be that way either. I just know they are and dislike them for it lol
Haha another strike on the fanbase?
Then again, it seems to me (maybe incorrectly?) that the number of people who've succumbed to the p2w thing to an extreme ($1000 and up) are a relative minority..? I hope so, at least.
JohnMice; said:
It seems my statement generated some controversy and mockery due to poor punctuation and lack of deeper explanation (my bad but I guess I deserved it). Even though, it's good when discussion actually happens in the thread.
So here goes something more elaborate:
Making a game involves a lot of planning and a lot of thought beforehand just like any project. The bigger and more ambitious is the game or project the less certainties you have as with new challenges you get new problems.
That's why delays happen, that's why whole game mechanics / features get tossed constantly and delays happen. That's part of the process, there is no ambitious game that innovated and tried to do "new" things that hasn't had it's fare share of hurdles during development. As much thought you put into planning and try to make sure you cover all the possible fallouts there will allways be something that you miss. That you can not control.
No company, even the most experienced ones is immune to this situation. Making new games that push things forward ir a very very risky decision. Game Developers that try that are actually heroes in my book, they crave to new and better game experiences, they are not afraid to risk their reputation and company to try and do groundbreaking games. But sh*t happens and things go bad, sometimes so bad that there is no other way than canceling the show. Sure, mistakes were made , unexpected hurdles can suddenly apear from the most unexpected places. Management, Publishers, New Tech etc.
Some examples:
DOOM 4 - Start of development: 2008 » Release date: 2016
http://kotaku.com/five-years-and-nothing-to-show-how-doom-4-got-off-trac-468097062
Several identity crises made DOOM development go on and on, change of game design, refactoring, change of dev's, etc
Prop's to them for sticking with it and making it happen, released with good claim.
The Witcher 3 - Culmination of a 10 year work by Project Red
http://www.develop-online.net/interview/the-wild-road-to-the-witcher-3/0207553
“We spent almost two years learning how to organise production and how to effectively run a studio,” explains Iwinski. “It was a much slower start than it should have been and that’s why The Witcher took us a long five years to finish.”
"It was a really tough decision to push back The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, but gamers don’t care about buggy games shipped on time."Marcin Iwinski, CD Projekt
"Iwinski recognises that, due to the scale and complexity of games these days, exact planning of game development time, including QA, is still “mission impossible”, but there are ways to alleviate potential issues, such as it has enacted with The Witcher 3.
“Looking at our own experience, I would say: set hard deadlines, push for making it happen like there’s no tomorrow, but do not ship until you are convinced the game is ready,” he states."
The Last Guardian: 9 Years in Development
http://kotaku.com/the-last-guardians-designer-explains-how-he-stayed-moti-1782448187
Blizzard MMO Titan Canceled after 10 years of development, then refactored to Overwatch:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/blizzard-on-cancelled-titan-mmo-we-failed-horrific/1100-6439068/
"Development costs for Titan may have amounted to tens of millions, perhaps $50 million or more. This is not an unusual event, however. Blizzard has cancelled several games in various stages of development in the past. Costs for unreleased games can be significant, but launching substandard games can harm the reputation of a successful publisher such as Blizzard. Expenses for development can be considered R&D, and benefits can include invaluable training, IP and technology that can be applied to other games," explained independent analyst Billy Pidgeon.
[video=youtube;jq-HwvYjLLg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq-HwvYjLLg[/video]
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/08/16/redundancies-at-real-time-worlds/#comment-491791
http://kotaku.com/heres-what-blizzards-titan-actually-was-1638632121
Frontier Developments: The Outsider : https://www.frontier.co.uk/games/outsider/
Development time: 6 years - On Hold/Not Canceled/Canceled:
The Outsider is a true 'next generation' game focussed on a fresh, evolved gameplay experience, delivered with gorgeous graphics and built with key proprietary Frontier technology.
http://www.develop-online.net/news/the-outsider-not-cancelled/0108551
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/20/frontiers-the-outsider-has-been-cancelled/
January 20th 2011 - "Cambridge studio Frontier Developments has not cancelled production on The Outsider, its founder David Braben has told Develop. However, 17 workers at the group have been made redundant as Frontier rethinks its approach developing the game.
“There is still publisher interest in the project, and we haven’t cancelled it,” Braben told Develop.
“The priority has been reduced, but we’re still working on it,” he said.
“A publisher has not cancelled the project”, he later said when asked for clarification.
The Outsider has been in production for six years.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...n-says-the-outsider-probably-is-gone-for-good
https://www.engadget.com/2011/10/11/source-frontiers-canned-the-outsider-project-was-actually-t/
Elite 4 (now Dangerous): Announced in 2001 http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Elite_4_rumour_mill
2008: Frontier founder confirms that sequel to famed space game will land after The Outsider
Frontier Developments is close to finalising the technology that will power Elite 4, the long-awaited sequel to boss David Braben's space adventure series.Braben confirmed the news during a talk at the Develop conference today.
He said that the game itself "had not been forgotten" and that it would be released after his political adventure game epic The Outsider is released next year.
He admitted that the game itself, which he has repeatedly made refernece to in interviews for the past few years, has had a stop-start production as Frontier keeps testing technology and then rejecting it.
Braben described Elite 4 as a "really amibitious project" but confirmed there was a team actively working on it in order to get it right.
http://www.develop-online.net/news/elite-4-technology-almost-finished-says-braben/0103227
And there's plenty more if you like to go deep into this development reads:
http://gamerant.com/best-games-development-hell-118/2/
http://www.cheatcc.com/extra/top10gamesstillstuckindevelopmenthell.html
http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/148699307051/theres-murmurings-that-prey-2-was-canceled-by
Star Citizen:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._to_the_delays_in_developing_Star_Citizen.php
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Mich...o_Ground_Matters_of_Scale_in_Level_Design.php
TLDR: Video-Games suffer delays, the more groundbreaking a game is the more delayed it gets. As long as there is $$ and the company can make a fun game delays don't matter. Players don't care about delays if they are having fun.
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To all this there is a very simple response: Star Citizen has been in development since 2001, since the tech that powers it began to be developed at that time. So Star Citizen has been in development for 15 years.
This is the same basis as the one your use about EVERY SINGLE ONE of the games or non-games you list.
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I guess you skipped most of it, just read the TLDR then.
Exactly when Croberts starts making of the Freelancer he was actualy doing some skunk work for the SC...that´s the logic behind the John Mice theory....they will do everything to justify this slow&lame process and countless delays....+non of those projects was crowdfunded......
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*sigh*
So you said development is hard delays happen, just look at all these games that took X years to develop because of said delays!
Except if you want to use those games as examples, then Star Citizen dwarfs even them in development time, so we're back to square one.
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*Sigh* Most of the tech that powers Star Citizen mechanics has been made from scratch by them in the last years if you haven't noticed, they've changed more than 50% of the Engine by now, might as well call it StarEngine.
You keep mixing a real alpha stage because the game was announced before they even have a studio, while normally games under publishers make the sunk work worth of years at closed door and only reveal their "alphas" when the game is pretty much done, Beta is just a free demo to lure potential buyers.
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Soooo, by your account, Witcher 3 was developed from 2006, and that game in the meantime, what's it called, oh, Witcher 2, that released in 2011, it was developed as a side project? SC logic
Haha another strike on the fanbase?
Then again, it seems to me (maybe incorrectly?) that the number of people who've succumbed to the p2w thing to an extreme ($1000 and up) are a relative minority..? I hope so, at least.
haha Yeah I feel like paying for advantages is born from a desire to "win" the same way as cheating is. Obviously if it is sanctioned by the creator of the game it's not cheating but I believe it's the same thought processes and emotions at work.
Ultimately irrelevant.
None of those titles were developed with cash from customer pre-orders.
If Doom or The Witcher 3 had been scrapped? No risk to the consumer. None.
If Star Citizen fails? Thousands of customers are in the can for it.
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