The Star Citizen Thread v5

[dsmart]

They were short on funds in 2015 with someone claiming they will collapse in 90 days (IIRC), and yet CIG is still here, with late-year sales and SC 2.0 giving them a big boost in funding. Why should this year be any different?

I'll bite. Again.

It was an analysis; was never asserted to be set in stone; and as analysis' go, a lot of unknown factors (e.g. that people would keep giving them money after the fact) can influence the outcome and end result. So anyone parroting it as fact, is a fool.

That's the nature of analysis. It's fluid. It's unpredictable. At best. With what I knew at the time, I gave them 90 days. The 90 days turned out to be wrong, though the evidence that led me to that analysis, wasn't wrong.

And several people came out and confirmed it to The Escapist as well.

a·nal·y·sis
əˈnaləsəs/
noun
detailed examination of the elements or structure of something, typically as a basis for discussion or interpretation.
"statistical analysis"
synonyms: examination, investigation, inspection, survey, study, scrutiny; More
the process of separating something into its constituent elements.
synonyms: examination, investigation, inspection, survey, study, scrutiny; More
the identification and measurement of the chemical constituents of a substance or specimen.

 

[CMDR Crumpeteer]

Nope, it isn't. It is something that David Braben pioneered over 30 years ago, in the original Elite. Go away, learn a little about the history of game development, and then tell us what is or isn't new In SC or ED.

To be fair, procedural generation was used in games before Elite, "Rogue" for example. DB didn't invent it, but he did wonderful things with it.

 

[Marak]

To be fair, procedural generation was used in games before Elite, "Rogue" for example. DB didn't invent it, but he did wonderful things with it.

Like making Elite using only 22k of memory!

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I'll bite. Again.

It was an analysis; was never asserted to be set in stone; and as analysis' go, a lot of unknown factors (e.g. that people would keep giving them money after the fact) can influence the outcome and end result. So anyone parroting it as fact, is a fool.

That's the nature of analysis. It's fluid. It's unpredictable. At best. With what I knew at the time, I gave them 90 days. The 90 days turned out to be wrong, though the evidence that led me to that analysis, wasn't wrong.

And several people came out and confirmed it to The Escapist as well.

]

Never underestimate the wallets of Citizens

 

[Tippis]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_generation#Early_history

See? Even wikipedia agrees with him. It lists Elite as among the first games to use it to create (and, more importantly, store) its world. So it's not exactly like he's trying to change history or anything.

Braben and Bell most certainly have earned the title of pioneers in the field of procedural generation in gaming.

Oh, and care to guess where Elite Dangerous and X² got its 3D radar, and why claiming that the former got it from the latter is rather silly…?

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

Watch Star Citizen not be available on Steam.

Not a chance. Same with Squadron 42.

You can bet it will not be on Steam , why would they accept a 30% cut from the profits when their website generated 178 million page views and 9.5 millions visitors in 2015..

Don't suppose you have a picture of their new cockpit HUD around do you?

Which one? It differs from Ship and it's Manufacturer...

 

[Tippis]

You can bet it will not be on Steam , why would they accept a 30% cut from the profits when their website generated 178 million page views and 9.5 millions visitors in 2015.

Presumably because they'd want to reach as many customers as possible and because Steam is unparalleled in that regard?

 

[jcrg99]

At that price it had better be signed by CR himself in 24k gold lol

The number of units of these items that they offer and how they have been struggling to sell all them is telling.

 

[Ozram]

You can bet it will not be on Steam , why would they accept a 30% cut from the profits when their website generated 178 million page views and 9.5 millions visitors in 2015..

Which one? It differs from Ship and it's Manufacturer...

I like the pretty pictures. Show us some cockpits

 

[dsmart]

Road-maps are road maps not promises, Game development is not set in stone after you write the road-map, it's messy and things change, that's why you have to adapt, that's why it's fluid. You don't need to go far to find other game dev's being caught up in their words, ED for instance had a road-map that included a offline mode, ditched at the last minute because something that they it was feasible turned out it wasn't, same with the planning of a $100,000 CQC Arena Tournament that seamed feasible at the time of the announcement and then things change...

It's Game Development 101, Things are allways changing, if you have a game developing/ business model that involves constant communication you are bound to have more public set-backs than if you do it behind the scenes like "normal" game development does.

People must understand game developers are just humans beings that happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold them up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead... but don't be surprised if they don't uphold them.

This is all true. But you're missing the POINT.

Star Citizen doesn't have a roadmap. I am certain that they have one internally, but it's not public.

What they did provide to backers as a roadmap, was this: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals and in which they promised various features which would have ended up in a dev roadmap.

Unlike standard development, the Star Citizen roadmap is tied to promises for which they received money. That's crowdfunding. And when you make a promise, you have to keep to it. You can't just strip it "because of development issues". That's precisely why the FTC and State officials have gone after various crowdfunded projects. And that's precisely why refunds are happening because if they fail to deliver a single promise, they have to refund. Which, btw, explains the reason that, despite proclamations to the fact that "it's already in the PU", Star Marine is being resurrected because it was a huge promise made; and which they thought they could remove without consequences.

A roadmap (our final release version due to all other completed schedules trimmed off the page): http://lodgame.com/roadmap/

Also...next time you quote that, do it correctly, and attribute please.

"Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them." - Derek Smart

 

[milligna]

You can bet it will not be on Steam , why would they accept a 30% cut from the profits when their website generated 178 million page views and 9.5 millions visitors in 2015..

Of course it will, once they tap out the whales it'll be on Steam to bring in fresh blood. Then heavily discounted. There's not much of an audience for this game and they'll need to maximize revenue, taking a 30% cut is better than not getting that 70%. Trips to Monaco 1st class are expensive, you know!

 

[dsmart]

Star Citizen's MVP is the full release of the game.

MVP doesn't mean what you think it means. You should probably read up on that. Then go back and listen to and read Chris's several statements about specifically that. In fact, here's an entire blog about that. Search for viable Enjoy.

http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/07/star-citizen-this-war-of-mine/

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Sounds like the fans are just making stuff up again.

If CR had meant they were going to release the full game he wouldn't have said they were going to release a minimum viable product.

That's just blindingly obvious.

Precisely.

These guys are just making stuff up as they go along. Which, when you think about it, is par for the course. So it's all normal really.

 

[Soopyyy]

Dsmart is a better Journalist than most actual Journalists.

 

[Tippis]

Dsmart is a better Journalist than most actual Journalists.

I wouldn't go that far. He's a better journalist than games journalists, but that's because the majority of those aren't actual journalists so that's not saying much.

 

[frostypaw]

For example.
Did you know. Pretty much all Games got their Menu on Escape.
So you think they all Stole it ?

Oh by the way. All Ships got Engines.
Guess Stolen as well *gg*

I assume at this point you imagine someone is applauding?

You're not doing any of the heroic nest-kicking you say you imagine you are in your other posts, you're literally just the next guy being awkward after the previous commandos stopped.

I'd say have a look at the detail of it, but these conversations are pointless - i feel like I'm talking to a parody anime bad guy who's already assumed they're going to win and it's just no fun having to slave to point out how you're wrong again.

 

[milligna]

Where's Ben Lesnick been lately? Digitizing Wing Commander: The Movie tapes?

Why? Is our money funding a special edition of that trainwreck of a movie just like CR used money intended for Freelancer to work on movie effects?

So we've got to fund his old, failed dreams along with the current dream?

 

[Soopyyy]

I wouldn't go that far. He's a better journalist than games journalists, but that's because the majority of those aren't actual journalists so that's not saying much.

No, its not saying much because a great deal of actual Journalists aren't very good either

 

[Sunleader]

Er, sure. But does that say anything about "for a few Years now" like you insisted?

Cmon, denying Braben his due as one of the first devs to really harness PG to make space sims in the Elite series is silly. I know Chris Roberts invented space sims, but credit where credit is due to Braben and Bell!

Wait, let me rephrase that:

Cmon, Denying Braben his Due as One of the First Devs to really Harness PG to Make space Sims in The Elite series is Silly. I know Chris Roberts invented Space Sims, but Credit where Credit is due to Braben and Bell!

Not THE first, but an early pioneer. How could someone into games not appreciate that at the very least?

"Ignorance of your culture is not considered cool." - The Residents

I am not Denying him anything.
Using PG for this is a very good application
But saying SC Stole it from ED is a Joke.
No Offense. But while Braben surely makes good use of it. Its not like he Invented that Method or that it is an Idea which everyone else stole from him.

See? Even wikipedia agrees with him. It lists Elite as among the first games to use it to create (and, more importantly, store) its world. So it's not exactly like he's trying to change history or anything.

Braben and Bell most certainly have earned the title of pioneers in the field of procedural generation in gaming.

Oh, and care to guess where Elite Dangerous and X² got its 3D radar, and why claiming that the former got it from the latter is rather silly…?

Both Games as well as several Earlier Games all got it from the same Place.
Reality of Aviation and Radar Technology.
Because its an easy and logical way to use an Radar for 3D Terrain.

This Includes different ways to Display the 3D Radar on a 2D Screen.

ED is using a Base Method actually more commonly used on Naval Radars here.
By Displaying Objects in Different Height by adding a Line to them which Indicates their Position on the Grid and an Elevation.
Other Methods are by using Colors to Define the Height. Or by using 2 Radar Screens to get all 3 Axis Displayed.

Sorry. But its not stolen from FD.

 

[milligna]

I am not Denying him anything.
Using PG for this is a very good application
But saying SC Stole it from ED is a Joke.
No Offense. But while Braben surely makes good use of it. Its not like he Invented that Method or that it is an Idea which everyone else stole from him.

Good thing I never said that, then.

What an eccentric performance!

 

[Tippis]

Using PG for this is a very good application
But saying SC Stole it from ED is a Joke.

Not as much of a joke as one would like. Remember, for the longest time, it was all about the hand-crafting and PG was sneered at as the cheap method used by “other games” to deliver what SC would do with more style and quality. And then, all of a sudden, it turned out that those games made spectacularly good use of PG, at which point SC suddenly needed to rely on it a lot too, but it would obviously do it a lot better than those “other games”.

Both Games as well as several Earlier Games all got it from the same Place.

Yes. That place was Elite.

 

[frostypaw]

Sorry. But its not stolen from FD.

Maybe this too is a language barrier.

We are not claiming FD invented these things, we're saying SC went from "oh no we don't need any of that, we're blazing our own trail" to wholesale copying methods/designs. it's flattery really, it's because the way they'd been worked out was really effective. Yes as you say many many others have done similar things, but they've not chosen to mimic those other systems - they've chosen this one.

That's what we mean - hopefully that's explained it for you and we can lay this to rest and not lose more pages to terribly clever word games.

ps. apologies if i'm overstepping the mark speaking for others there, but i think we've covered this topic too before and that's about fair