Patch Notes Update Beta 2.2 - Update 7

Horrible decision. When you've seen 10,000+ ice balls they become somewhat dull - some interesting features might make them worth a visit, and was fun in earlier betas. You've essentially just removed the point of the planetary map for a lot of explorers.

So basically, what you want is to have the ADS also act as a surface scanner, instantly creating planetary maps for all bodies in a system, because visiting each planet to find out whether it's an ice ball or something more interesting is a lot of effort, right?

How about an indicator for planets that "might be more interesting" - so you still don't know what it is yet, but you get a little star that prompts you to investigate further. Metal worlds, earthlikes and such would then show up as "candidates" in the system map (as grid planet) until you actually do a surface scan.
 
So basically, what you want is to have the ADS also act as a surface scanner, instantly creating planetary maps for all bodies in a system, because visiting each planet to find out whether it's an ice ball or something more interesting is a lot of effort, right?

How about an indicator for planets that "might be more interesting" - so you still don't know what it is yet, but you get a little star that prompts you to investigate further. Metal worlds, earthlikes and such would then show up as "candidates" in the system map (as grid planet) until you actually do a surface scan.

Not quite, no. First off, they've already said the current ADS behaviour is a bug and will revert - so we will know from the system map an/or selecting the planet and looking at nav panel what it is for 99% of planets. Ice balls will still be white and boring on the system map (though slightly sparklier in 2.2). What I'm saying is I've visited 1000s of ice balls. It takes an interesting ice ball to get my attention these days. I mostly ignore them completely now. But in earlier betas for 2.2, I was constantly checking the planetary maps of them and maybe 5% of them were worth a visit - because I could see a huge chasm, or some interesting colouring or something. Having the planetary map available meant there was a reason to not ignore all those ice balls. Changing the behaviour to require a surface scan for the planetary map just means that I (and I think many others) will continue to ignore those ice balls, and renders the planetary map far far less useful to me and others.
 
So basically, what you want is to have the ADS also act as a surface scanner, instantly creating planetary maps for all bodies in a system, because visiting each planet to find out whether it's an ice ball or something more interesting is a lot of effort, right?

How about an indicator for planets that "might be more interesting" - so you still don't know what it is yet, but you get a little star that prompts you to investigate further. Metal worlds, earthlikes and such would then show up as "candidates" in the system map (as grid planet) until you actually do a surface scan.

See, now that's a great way to approach things.

The discovery scanners already gather a fair amount of information (probably a little too much really) on everything in range.

So if the information were to be broken down completely so that the discovery scanner gives you a guesstimate of the mass of the body based on its size alongside orbital data and any satellites it may have. Based on those two sets of data it presents a probability chart of sorts of the likelihood of being a planet/small body of X,Y,Z etc.

If a detailed scan is performed of the objects parent star (or planet if it's a moon) then the probability chart can use that information to try give a tighter range of probabilities and it also presents some hypothetical surface conditions alongside body type probability... like:

60% chance of non-atmospheric ice planetoid.
30% chance of atmospheric water world.
Potentially rich in metals with active volcanism.

Within the system map, non-scanned bodies show a generic appearance based on the highest probability type the algorithm churns out but with a '?' marker next to it and a breakdown of the possibilities in the body information to make it perfectly clear what is what... or rather the likelihood that it's really what it seems just from looking at the texture image.


Then once you're in range to perform a scan if you don't have a detailed surface scanner, the results from that give you the exact type of body you're dealing with and other larger information. And from that concrete information the potential for metals, volcanism and other details is re-calculated to give more accurate probability numbers. If you have the surface scanner, then the scan gives you full accurate findings.



Edit: Clearly all this is stuff "For a later time". So for now, just retaining the blank state for non-scanned bodies and making the behaviour a byproduct of intended behaviour rather than unintended behaviour would be a nice first step and help get players in the right mindset for any future reiteration to polish up the concept into something more player engaging further down the road.
 
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Horrible decision. When you've seen 10,000+ ice balls they become somewhat dull - some interesting features might make them worth a visit, and was fun in earlier betas. You've essentially just removed the point of the planetary map for a lot of explorers.

While I have my moan-hat on, please please please get the atmosphere and composition breakdowns added to the Scan event in the journal. Without it, we still need to rely on OCR to automate collection of that data.

ist off please do not take this the wrong way i am not trying to be offensive, and i kind of agree with your point that it could be a step back for some.... BUT

i actually think you mislabel yourself. An Explorer is the person who goes into an empty system and flies to each planet to see what it is and then if they spot an interesting one goes down to look at it. Christopher Columbus did not need to know if an island was interesting before he went to look at it Roald Amundsen did not care if the south pole was mostly icy land and cold.

a tourist is not interested in the boring stuff but still wants to see the "good stuff".

imo you are sounding more like a tourist than an explorer. (As am i btw but only because there are not really any mechanics in the art of exploration in elite)

could there not be a half way house perhaps.... so have it as it is now in beta, but perhaps our computer scans 3 or 4 points which we can fly too and drop a system scanning beacon. on doing this at the right co-ordinates they can ping the system and then give very basic image data of what is in the system so you can choose what planets to scan more closely.

as a carrot to the stick as this would "waste" some time, IF this scan is done it could increase the distance considerably that a detailed surface scan could be done to get all the detail on the planets in a system and so actually increase the speed of scanning of an entire system.
 
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Zac, Michael, Sandro, & Dave: why no development on the under-used HUD Panels to have System Security & Star Class moved beside the System Name on the lower left HUD?

Why the Name in 3 different places at the same time?

Why clutter the Middle of screen on an unconvincing HUD area (no Panel in centre) when you already have Panels for all things to display in?

Why have the lower left HUD not function whilst in Hyperspace and even add the suggested info as it has space for it as CLEAN/ANARCHY/LAWLESS & +++ & O.B.A.F.G.K.M. etc. and besides that why not keep all Panels in use for us to make our checks and plans whilst we jump?
 
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Zac, Michael, Sandro, & Dave: why no development on the under-used HUD Panels to have System Security & Star Class moved beside the System Name on the lower left HUD?

Why the Name in 3 different places at the same time?

Why clutter the Middle of screen on an unconvincing HUD area (no Panel in centre) when you already have Panels for all things to display in?

Why have the lower left HUD not function whilst in Hyperspace and even add the suggested info as it has space for it as CLEAN/ANARCHY/LAWLESS & +++ & O.B.A.F.G.K.M. etc. and besides that why not keep all Panels in use for us to make our checks and plans whilst we jump?


1. Agree
2. Yes, no need in three places
3. And yes keep the middle area clear, but that's the same as your first comment

However what can you do in the 5 seconds or so it's takes to jump to another system that you can't do before you jump?
 
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This, people, is why I have fallen in love with this game. FDev is so responsive...one hour after the release and people are talking of issues and there is an answer...THIS is how you properly develop a game. THIS is why I have no issues with where this game is going, I know they will listen and as long as it's not a flame out then response will be given. Thank you MB, thank you to all of FDEV for making an incredible game and setting an incredible precedence in the world of game development. You ain't no EA Games, and for that we thank you! ;-)

Wait - what really happened here... A bug happened and people have reacted with concern. Only thing FDev have done is replied saying so. And they are also going forward with a change that essentially no one asked for, and one that is not very popular. Think you jumped the gun on the gushy praise there! :rolleyes:

Still not sure this change to planet scanning will be good for explorers if I understand it correctly (will test later). Seems to simply add another layer of time-sink for trivial returns.


Edit: okay, just tested the change. IMO it adds more realism (which is good) but as expected also adds more time for no change in reward (which is bad). FDev should increase the scanning reward as others have mentioned. And if FDev are suddenly interested in making changes to scanning in an effort to make things more realistic then they need to look at other magical scanning behavior and make changes there as well.


- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Zac, Michael, Sandro, & Dave: why no development on the under-used HUD Panels to have System Security & Star Class moved beside the System Name on the lower left HUD?

Why the Name in 3 different places at the same time?

Why clutter the Middle of screen on an unconvincing HUD area (no Panel in centre) when you already have Panels for all things to display in?

Why have the lower left HUD not function whilst in Hyperspace and even add the suggested info as it has space for it as CLEAN/ANARCHY/LAWLESS & +++ & O.B.A.F.G.K.M. etc. and besides that why not keep all Panels in use for us to make our checks and plans whilst we jump?

Totally agree. As a UX designer at times I simply cringe with the new changes.
 
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Wait - what really happened here... A bug happened and people have reacted with concern. Only thing FDev have done is replied saying so. And they are also going forward with a change that essentially no one asked for, and one that is not very popular. Think you jumped the gun on the gushy praise there! :rolleyes:

Still not sure this change to planet scanning will be good for explorers if I understand it correctly (will test later). Seems to simply add another layer of time-sink for trivial returns.

You see the pretty pics of the planets in the system view, you just won't see the surface in the planet view (ie. you just see the wire frame), until you scan it.
What's wrong with that?
 
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Edited - so much conflicting info I don't even know what the hell these changes to the way planets are displayed are any more.
 
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1. Agree
2. Yes, no need in three places
3. And yes keep the middle area clear, but that's the same as your first comment

However what can you do in the 5 seconds or so it's takes to jump to another system that you can't do before you jump?
FD are adding various bits of info that POPUP in the Middle of Screen, although the BOOM STATE arcade animation has now gone, they still use it for other items, e.g. "YOU'VE BEEN PROMOTED!" which popped up on me just 1.5s away from the Station, I seen something but reacted to the exact same sound of "SAFE TO DISENGAGE" resulting in me still far away from the Station, which would have gotten me killed if followed by NPC as they'd drop into my Instance too!

The Hyperspcae takes about 10secs or more sometimes. I often need this time to do checks to plan as I had only Jumped for Safety reasons by fleaing being killed! There is now less panic supposedly upon exit as there should NOT be any Instant Interdictions and also NO Interdictions beside Stars apparently (?) but when running from Pirates/Bounty Hunters/Cops on Missions I often must make fast calculations as to whether I will Jump again OR need to Dock and find a Station for Restock/Refuel. We do need this and would keep up the immersion whilst loading.
 
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Totally agree. As a UX designer at times I simply cringe with the new changes.

Also agree. As there is thread on this can I add;

I hope it might be time to change the left panel button "galactic powers" to "galnet". I think people will still find the powers, and seems more realistic to me if news (on the powers) is "as provided by" Galnet.

Bugs me a bit this one. As does the red alert (? which might be better reserved for "civil war", "outbreak reported" .. and maybe not all the time, even then ?)
 
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Zac, Michael, Sandro, & Dave: why no development on the under-used HUD Panels to have System Security & Star Class moved beside the System Name on the lower left HUD?

Why the Name in 3 different places at the same time?

Why clutter the Middle of screen on an unconvincing HUD area (no Panel in centre) when you already have Panels for all things to display in?

Why have the lower left HUD not function whilst in Hyperspace and even add the suggested info as it has space for it as CLEAN/ANARCHY/LAWLESS & +++ & O.B.A.F.G.K.M. etc. and besides that why not keep all Panels in use for us to make our checks and plans whilst we jump?
Like the Beta iterations, so thanks for that FD.

For above, +1; I support a thorough update/rethink pass on the HUD UI for 2.3.

I don't know if the HUD got into the QOL thread from a few days ago, but hope so.

There is a lot of room for QOL win on this topic. (I'd like a lights On indicator like for the scoop, mass-lock, and landing gear)

And I still think the super-cruise schematic of stars and planets on the sensor disc should have a switch to put the central star in the center instead of the player to create a sort-of Orrey as we fly around... I know maybe not easy but it seems the code is there to display the system on the sensor display already, so . . .
 
Zac, Michael, Sandro, & Dave: why no development on the under-used HUD Panels to have System Security & Star Class moved beside the System Name on the lower left HUD?

Why the Name in 3 different places at the same time?

Why clutter the Middle of screen on an unconvincing HUD area (no Panel in centre) when you already have Panels for all things to display in?

Why have the lower left HUD not function whilst in Hyperspace and even add the suggested info as it has space for it as CLEAN/ANARCHY/LAWLESS & +++ & O.B.A.F.G.K.M. etc. and besides that why not keep all Panels in use for us to make our checks and plans whilst we jump?


!! complete agreement !!
all Info can be in left lower Info-corner.

and not forget to say again, we need a commodity storage on stations, at least for the stuff required by engineers
 
You see the pretty pics of the planets in the system view, you just won't see the surface in the planet view (ie. you just see the wire frame), until you scan it.
What's wrong with that?

I agree. Space exploration should mean actually exploring.
I find exploring tedious at the moment because let's face it there's not really much out there to find which can't be found in our own back yard (A common complaint which could easily be fixed by a smart gameplay designer <cough cough>), so giving us a reason to use an actual exploration vessel and actually scan the bodies we expect to visit makes absolute sense. Give us reasons to explore and we will.
All of the people who want to make mechanics which already work fine into shorter and easier versions should be ignored.

On that note, my main ship is now invincible and capable of ending wings of Anacondas with no sweat; can you make the game harder please. Reinstating the 2.1.1 difficulty and refining it so it scales better with your *current* ship would be my personal choice. I thought the AI was brilliant; the game just had a few issues with matching the situation to the threat it generated.
 
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- Fix planet scan logic to ensure that planet terrain is only visible if the planet has had a basic scan performed on it


I trully don't understand with FD Devs HATES explorers so much. If someone could explain me I would be grateful but it really beats me on why FD Devs hates explorers that much. So pewpew's gets instant ship transfer ( soon it will be free for what I'm seeing ), soon they will get infinite modules storage as well. And what FD does for EXPLORERS? They keep killing this already forgotten profession.

Way to go FD.
 
Like the Beta iterations, so thanks for that FD.

For above, +1; I support a thorough update/rethink pass on the HUD UI for 2.3.

I don't know if the HUD got into the QOL thread from a few days ago, but hope so.

There is a lot of room for QOL win on this topic. (I'd like a lights On indicator like for the scoop, mass-lock, and landing gear)

And I still think the super-cruise schematic of stars and planets on the sensor disc should have a switch to put the central star in the center instead of the player to create a sort-of Orrey as we fly around... I know maybe not easy but it seems the code is there to display the system on the sensor display already, so . . .

Yes please! Some ships seem to have a (non functional) lights indicator inside the cockpit which would be nice, but it's probably easier to just add it to the HUD.

Maybe they could offer a popup Orrery you could bring up in the cockpit HUD - just a larger sensor view with the addition of names by each planets. I'd *guess* that's easier than doing a fully fledged, fully terrained & textured Orrery view. You'd only be able to show nearby planets, the entire system would likely be too cluttered in any big system.
 
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