The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Dooguk]

Where did I ever say it was the best game ever?

So far it looks like I'm going to be getting the game I want. Late? Yep. But if CIG gives me a good space combat game, I'm happy.


I haven't been conned (or should I say been conned any more than ED or Kingdom Come has conned me).


And besides its MY money. As I said, I've spent as much money backing SC as I did ED and Kingdom Come. And thus far, all have been worth it.

This is the bit that should get me banned.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

So, to counter the latest round of "This is what my *imagination* makes out Star Citizen currently is and is going to be!", I present to you a more realistic view of what the *actual* Star Citizen "experience" is usually like.

https://gfycat.com/EnergeticPalatableBlackfootedferret

 

[Kerrash]

I have backed dozens of KickStarters, many of which have either failed to deliver; or are still spinning on...
Do, I feel conned? No, disappointed maybe but not conned.

Hopefully one day, I can enjoy some of what CiG promised.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

Sorry. You fail to see. People like Evil Merlin wasn't conned. Everyone else was. But not people like him.

For those that feel they have been conned, they can request a refund.

Thus far I don't see thousands of people doing so. Not even hundreds.

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So, to counter the latest round of "This is what my *imagination* makes out Star Citizen currently is and is going to be!", I present to you a more realistic view of what the *actual* Star Citizen "experience" is usually like.

https://gfycat.com/EnergeticPalatableBlackfootedferret

Its a bug. In an alpha. The horror.

 

[jcrg99]

I haven't been conned.

And how would you feel if Star Citizen were flooded by people willing to have a Playstation/Xbox or whatever console version first (could be even a new console to come).
RSI looking to the potential of that, such easy money in front of them and getting so many requests of the backers, accepted the challenge?

In summary. What happened in this scenario is that other people with money enough, would have hijacked the project that you pledged for and supported and invited your friends, etc, right?

So... How would you feel about this situation? Do you think that would be ok a game developer having and following such approach with its public? Do you think that such developer still would deserve support? Do you think that a developer who do that can be reliable? How would you make to believe in whatever he said, after this event?

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Where did I ever say it was the best game ever?

So far it looks like I'm going to be getting the game I want. Late? Yep. But if CIG gives me a good space combat game, I'm happy.


I haven't been conned (or should I say been conned any more than ED or Kingdom Come has conned me).


And besides its MY money. As I said, I've spent as much money backing SC as I did ED and Kingdom Come. And thus far, all have been worth it.

Yes yes, and the people that gave that kindly, totally trustworthy Mr Madoff, were *completely* confident that the money they had invested into his getrichquickscheme utterly legal, above the board and utterly beyond reproach business, was ultimately worth it as well*.

Nah, everything that CIG have said in the past, and are saying of their future is completely true, justified and must be trusted with the utmost conviction!










*As they watched him being dragged off into jail for life after taking millions from them and not giving anything back in return.

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Its a bug. In an alpha. The horror.

Yes, one that has persisted for many, many months, with no sign that CIG are able to do a thing about it.

And it is just one amongst a myriad of other game braking/hilarious/head scratching (take your pick) bugs that have plagued Star Citizen since Arena Commander and the Hangar module dropped several years ago. Many of those bugs have persisted from the very start, despite several Bugsmashers videos showing them being "dealt with".

I'm glad though that you can be so flippant as to disregard CIG's lack of ability to deal with these issues, whilst praising them for attempting to add ever more features to the code that is clearly already an enormous mess.

Carry on doing your thing though, I guess.

 

[Dooguk]

For those that feel they have been conned, they can request a refund.

Thus far I don't see thousands of people doing so. Not even hundreds.

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Its a bug. In an alpha. The horror.

The fact that you haven't seen that many refunds doesn't mean it's not happening. CIG don't publish refund numbers.

Will you show bugs in your video like Major Tom does? I hope so, they are so funny. I can see how that is money well spent.

 

[Tippis]

And besides its MY money. As I said, I've spent as much money backing SC as I did ED and Kingdom Come. And thus far, all have been worth it.

You should have spent £200 more and gotten a station named after you.

 

[1500]

When is this magical code that's going to revolutionise multiplayer gaming supposed to debut? The "Network" bar on the current schedule already overshoots the 3.0 release, and that only seems to include incremental improvements in any case. There's been talk of a networking jesus patch since long before 2.6. Still, it's not like it's a fundamental piece of technology or anything.

There was talk about it since the original major delay of the dog fighting module, when it was delayed for 6 months in order to do the "network" code right the first time.


https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13432-Letter-From-The-Chairman-On-Dogfighting

The hardest part of dogfighting balance is to make it fun and challenging between two players. We’ve spent a lot of time thinking about the various systems and dials you can adjust to add a whole level of strategy / skill to dogfighting as we don’t want it to devolve into an endless turning battle with little chance of turning the tables on your opponent.

That is exactly what they released. An endless turning battle.

I feel that the Dogfighting module, especially with Star Citizen’s greatly increased profile, needs to be more polished than a typical “alpha”. There are a lot of eyes on the game, and more than a few people wanting us to fail. Because Dogfighting is the first module that will involve significant gameplay, it has to be good – I don’t feel that we will get a pass just because it is pre-pre alpha.

3.5 years later and we are still in the pre-pre alpha state. And the major fans still give them a pass for it.

So we had two choices: either fork development and spend time building something that would involve throwing away work in order to meet the December deadline and deliver something that wouldn’t have the level of polish I’m happy with, or stay on course to build something that would lead directly into the finished game.

CIG spend all of their time creating throw away code.

So rather than force the team to crunch through the holidays chasing something ‘good enough,’ I am going to make the tough choice to delay the dogfighting module for a couple of months to allow us to take our time and deliver something special.

Funny how "good enough" is there creed now.

If releasing dogfighting were to mean throwing away months of work and give an experience that doesn’t advance the final vision of Star Citizen, for the sake of meeting a deadline, we would be poor stewards of the funding which has been entrusted to us by the community.

Like the multiple demo's that CIG have created over the years and never released.

knew this had some drawbacks, the biggest being that we would have to use the built in CryEngine netcode and not our intended persistent and massively multiplayer capable system that we are architecting to handle the large amount of players we hope to have with Star Citizen.

They still have not made this netcode.



Speaking of CIG's history
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13898-Arena-Commander-V8-Delay

It would be foolish to release an unstable build, even if pre-alpha for the sake of meeting an internal deadline. This is the power of the crowdfunding that made Star Citizen possible: a publisher would make us ship tomorrow regardless of the current build quality… but as you are all focused on quality rather than a financial return for shareholders we are able to take a few more days to deliver something that is stable.

LOL they do this with every build, they have yet to release anything that was not unstable. And AC was still released very unstable, after 2 weeks of extra delays, and with out the multiplayer.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

And how would you feel if Star Citizen were flooded by people willing to have a Playstation/Xbox or whatever console version first (could be even a new console to come).
RSI looking to the potential of that, such easy money in front of them and getting so many requests of the backers, accepted the challenge?

In summary. What happened in this scenario is that other people with money enough, would have hijacked the project that you pledged for and supported and invited your friends, etc, right?

So... How would you feel about this situation? Do you think that would be ok a game developer having and following such approach with its public? Do you think that such developer still would deserve support? Do you think that a developer who do that can be reliable? How would you make to believe in whatever he said, after this event?

If it was flooded by people requesting a PS/XB version and CIG worked on that first, I would be . But there is no evidence that that is happening.

I have NO issues with RSI looking into that in the future, after the PC product released.

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The fact that you haven't seen that many refunds doesn't mean it's not happening. CIG don't publish refund numbers.

Will you show bugs in your video like Major Tom does? I hope so, they are so funny. I can see how that is money well spent.

I never said they were not happening. I was saying they are not happening in large numbers. At least that is what the reddit is showing.

Of course I will show bugs when I record videos. And of course there will be bugs. People seem to forget that this is an Alpha and seem to think its going to be bug free... and that is some mighty strange thinking.

 

[LeSabre]

For those that feel they have been conned, they can request a refund.

Thus far I don't see thousands of people doing so. Not even hundreds.

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Its a bug. In an alpha. The horror.

Curious as to where you'd go to "see" the ones refunding tbh, they don't show on CIG's funding tracker as minus figures nor do they deduct from the account numbers. Half a million people could get refunds in the same day and you'd be none the wiser.

How long do you think you'll put up with it being an "alpha" for? Another year, two? It's looking like it's staying an alpha for at least 3 or 4 years, maybe more given previous advancement. "It's an Alpha" is the weakest of the defences tbh.

 

[jcrg99]

For those that feel they have been conned, they can request a refund.

Thus far I don't see thousands of people doing so. Not even hundreds.

Interesting. Good to know that you have inside information. Could you share then, how many regular BACKERS playing the game they have?

 

[Evil_Merlin]

You should have spent £200 more and gotten a station named after you.

I'm happy with what I've spent and what I have gotten from all three.

 

[Dooguk]

If it was flooded by people requesting a PS/XB version and CIG worked on that first, I would be . But there is no evidence that that is happening.

I have NO issues with RSI looking into that in the future, after the PC product released.

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I never said they were not happening. I was saying they are not happening in large numbers. At least that is what the reddit is showing.

Of course I will show bugs when I record videos. And of course there will be bugs. People seem to forget that this is an Alpha and seem to think its going to be bug free... and that is some mighty strange thinking.

Note to self: Pre-order PS9.

Not everyone runs to forums to tell the world they got a refund do they?

 

[jcrg99]

I never said they were not happening. I was saying they are not happening in large numbers. At least that is what the reddit is showing.

Interesting. How many Reddit accounts Star Citizen have? How many of these are backers? How many were banned? And how many are regularly visiting the SC reddit page?

 

[Tippis]

Its a bug. In an alpha. The horror.

…and the point is that this is the reality of the game. And it's persistent. And it's pervasive. And it's what everyone is actually showing, but it's somehow lacking in your narratives even in places where it should be present. That was kind of the whole point here.

Also, that particular bug has become worse every time they've “fixed” it — that's not how alphas work. It is something you'd expect for a tech demo, as a solid argument why you'd probably want to cut out the underlying mechanics from the game entirely as you go into the alpha phase.

I'm happy with what I've spent and what I have gotten from all three.

So? You still should have bought those naming rights. Might as well if you're playing around with those sums.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

Curious as to where you'd go to "see" the ones refunding tbh, they don't show on CIG's funding tracker as minus figures nor do they deduct from the account numbers. Half a million people could get refunds in the same day and you'd be none the wiser.

How long do you think you'll put up with it being an "alpha" for? Another year, two? It's looking like it's staying an alpha for at least 3 or 4 years, maybe more given previous advancement. "It's an Alpha" is the weakest of the defences tbh.

Just going off of what I see on Reddit.


To be honest, I'm not sure how long I'll put up with it being in Alpha for. I understand what CIG is doing with the multi tiered Alpha modules. And right now I'm OK with it, because I have fun with what I currently have.

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…and the point is that this is the reality of the game. And it's persistent. And it's pervasive. And it's what everyone is actually showing, but it's somehow lacking in your narratives even in places where it should be present. That was kind of the whole point here.

Also, that particular bug has become worse every time they've “fixed” it — that's not how alphas work. It is something you'd expect for a tech demo, as a solid argument why you'd probably want to cut out the underlying mechanics from the game entirely as you go into the alpha phase.



So? You still should have bought those naming rights. Might as well if you're playing around with those sums.

Actually thats exactly how Alphas work. You fix something, something else breaks, and you keep at it. Especially when working with large objects and interaction of said objects with others.

I haven't seen that particular bug yet, but I've seen plenty of others, so apparently its not all that persistent or pervasive.

 

[Tippis]

Actually thats exactly how Alphas work. You fix something, something else breaks, and you keep at it.

…but that's not what they're doing here.
They fix it. It breaks. They fix it. It breaks. They fix it. It breaks. They fix it. It breaks. Repeat. It's not something else. It's the same thing, over and over and over and over.

At this point in your tech feasibility study, you determine that it's not feasible and cut it from the feature list. And then you go into alpha.

 

[Herbrand]

I have backed dozens of KickStarters, many of which have either failed to deliver; or are still spinning on...
Do, I feel conned? No, disappointed maybe but not conned.

Hopefully one day, I can enjoy some of what CiG promised.

I second this sentiment.

 

[jcrg99]

If it was flooded by people requesting a PS/XB version and CIG worked on that first, I would be .

Ok then. So, now... maybe... you understand why people are angry because people like you hijacked the Star Citizen project from them.

Regardless, do you think that the approach is good for RSI? To say something and then, ignore what they said and promise, because decided to add more things to appeal to a group, for money, for a game with a lot more funds than was told as necessary? Do you consider this a best practice to be followed? Would you support the attitude, applaud, and ask everyone that they deserve more money?