The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Dogeh

Dogeh
I'm not even sure you can call it an alpha.
More like an EBEA...Extremely Buggy Early Access...

so early we haven't left the house yet. :D
 

LeSabre

LeSabre
Tippis said:
…but that's not what they're doing here.
They fix it. It breaks. They fix it. It breaks. They fix it. It breaks. They fix it. It breaks. Repeat. It's not something else. It's the same thing, over and over and over and over.

At this point in your tech feasibility study, you determine that it's not feasible and cut it from the feature list. And then you go into alpha.
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This is probably why it's stagnating in Alpha and progress is so slow, they can't fix anything reliably because the engine isn't capable of doing what they want it to do. It'll get worse too as they attempt to squash in all the daft stretchgoals, 3.0 isn't going to save anything as far as I see it.
 

Dooguk

D
Who knows, maybe one day in the distant future, we may have the ability to walk through unopened doors. Breath in space without cumbersome space helmets. And fly about in our space chariots, crewed by commandos wearing just their underpants.

More nightmare than dream if you ask me. [ugh]
 

Evil_Merlin

Evil_Merlin
jcrg99 said:
Ok then. So, now... maybe... you understand why people are angry because people like you hijacked the Star Citizen project from them.

Regardless, do you think that the approach is good for RSI? To say something and then, ignore what they said and promise, because decided to add more things to appeal to a group, for money, for a game with a lot more funds than was told as necessary? Do you consider this a best practice to be followed? Would you support the attitude, applaud, and ask everyone that they deserve more money?
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How in the world did I hijack it? I was an original backer who only gave money two more times. Two years ago, because I wanted to see those ships in game.

Extra money coming in is funding exactly what the users wanted. And keep wanting, as they keep funding it.

Do I consider it a best practice? I have no way of knowing but it seems to be something that will become more and more prevalent as time goes on with crowd funding/sourcing. Stretch goals and all that.

Do I think they deserve more money? If they come out with another ship I like and want? Sure. If not? Nope. But this isn't about just me, this is about the other, possibly millions plus, backers. What I want isn't always going to be what everyone else wants. That's the good, and bad side, of crowd funding.

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Tippis said:
…but that's not what they're doing here.
They fix it. It breaks. They fix it. It breaks. They fix it. It breaks. They fix it. It breaks. Repeat. It's not something else. It's the same thing, over and over and over and over.

At this point in your tech feasibility study, you determine that it's not feasible and cut it from the feature list. And then you go into alpha.
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Since I have been in since the first Hangar Module released, I completely and utterly disagree. CIG has constantly been improving releases. Yep, some stuff breaks. Others get fixed, some have higher priority than others.

I've seen plenty of stuff get fixed (and plenty of stuff break), but it has been slow, steady, move forward.
 

Jezzah

Jezzah
Kerrash said:
I have backed dozens of KickStarters, many of which have either failed to deliver; or are still spinning on...
Do, I feel conned? No, disappointed maybe but not conned.

Hopefully one day, I can enjoy some of what CiG promised.
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I didn't feel "conned" either.

The over riding feeling for me was that I was going to be inadvertently "ripped off" through incompetence and mismanagement though...I had bail on it and I'm glad I did.

Ultimately if the gaming gods of heaven and hell manage to make the planets align over some chicken entrails and SOMEHOW this releases and is actually very good within my lifetime...I'll back in. Nothing lost. But what I won't do is leave them with my hard earned few hundred I had given them.
 

Evil_Merlin

Evil_Merlin
Dooguk said:
Who knows, maybe one day in the distant future, we may have the ability to walk through unopened doors. Breath in space without cumbersome space helmets. And fly about in our space chariots, crewed by commandos wearing just their underpants.

More nightmare than dream if you ask me. [ugh]
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Again, bugs get fixed. Thats the point of an Alpha. Some stuff may be higher priority. But never-the-less, just bugs.
 

Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat

Banned
I
Evil_Merlin said:
Actually thats exactly how Alphas work. You fix something, something else breaks, and you keep at it. Especially when working with large objects and interaction of said objects with others.

I haven't seen that particular bug yet, but I've seen plenty of others, so apparently its not all that persistent or pervasive.
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No, actually the *point*, as you so far continue to disingenuously misrepresent, of Alphas (which this game *isn't* btw, it is a pre Alpha tech demo, with fully rendered game assets, at best) is that with each iterative patch update, the majority of past issues, whether they be directly related to gameplay or bugs that have cropped up, are ironed out so that the testers can move on to testing other game features.

What CIG are doing, and as Tippis has mentioned already, is that the bugs they have supposedly "fixed" keep on cropping back up again in future patches. And this pattern has repeated itself many times over the years with the various modules (mostly the PTU) and their patches. And on top of that, the new patches often introduce NEW bugs that have come about because of a new game feature they want to put in.

This is NOT normal for an Early Access game in "Alpha", at least, not one that isn't massively in trouble/delayed by years/in development hell/etc....
 

VidarSnipes

V
Evil_Merlin said:
Again, bugs get fixed. Thats the point of an Alpha. Some stuff may be higher priority. But never-the-less, just bugs.
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They aren't getting fixed, though, Olisar's rings are misbehaving for a long, long time. Something's seriously wrong in the physics department if they can't fix something so fundamental after 18 months. Just because it's alpha doesn't mean the bugs like that will get fixed.
 

Osmanthus

O
On another note, does anyone actually have that poll at hand that supposedly showed "overwhelming backer support" for the scope expansion?
 

LeSabre

LeSabre
Osmanthus said:
On another note, does anyone actually have that poll at hand that supposedly showed "overwhelming backer support" for the scope expansion?
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There was a poll, but it was only avalible on the RSI forum and only a few thousand people voted on it, now that I think about it I remember the wording was "Shall we continue fund raising?" and not "shall we keep adding stuff?".

Happy to be wrong on that, but even if I were, a few thousand should not have the ability to speak for all imho.

Link to one of the polls, not the one concerned though, but interesting in relation to things all the same :

https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12760-Poll-Additional-Stretch-Goals

And one for when they hit $49m, poll is at the bottom :

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13944-Letter-From-The-Chairman-46-Million

No trace of the original poll though, like it's been scrubbed from the net.
 
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MTBFritz

MTBFritz
Osmanthus said:
On another note, does anyone actually have that poll at hand that supposedly showed "overwhelming backer support" for the scope expansion?
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This one?

Roughly 18.000 backers voted with yes, I m not sure how many backers total SC had at that point but neither the number nor the 55% qualify as "overwhelming" or "vast majority"
 

1500

1500
LeSabre said:
There was a poll, but it was only avalible on the RSI forum and only a few thousand people voted on it, now that I think about it I remember the wording was "Shall we continue fund raising?" and not "shall we keep adding stuff?".

Happy to be wrong on that, but even if I were, a few thousand should not have the ability to speak for all imho.
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It was neither of those things. It was should we keep having stretch goals, goals that CIG had stated were things they already wanted to do and would not delay development and as such were not in fact feature creep.

20 million letter.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million

here has been some concern about “feature creep” with the additional stretch goals. You should all know that we carefully consider the goals we announce. Typically the stretch goals fall into two categories;

The first are goals that involve features we already have planned or have implemented, but we couldn’t create content because of budgetary constraints. The first person combat on select planets is a great example of this type of goal. We already have FPS combat as part of the game in ship boarding, and we already have most of this already functional thanks to CryEngine, as we essentially have Crysis3 functionality out of the box. But creating all the environments and assets to fill them is a huge task, so we were planning on not doing any planetside combat initially, simply because of its cost, with the idea that we would slowly roll it out once the game is live. But with the additional funds we can now afford to create some of this content earlier rather than later.

The facial capture system is an example of the second type, where we identify technology and equipment that will make the game better and allow us to be more nimble and economically efficient in continually creating content for the ongoing universe that we are aiming to support. The motion capture system and sound studio were goals that feel into this category.

But both types of goals are carefully considered — we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state. Also remember that this is not like a typical retail boxed product — there is no rule that all features and content have to come online at the same time! As you can see from the Hangar Module we plan to make functionality and content come on line as it’s ready, so you should look at the stretch goals as a window into the future of functionality and content additions we plan for the live game.
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And

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/g55aecac92fb0e/Chris-Roberts-addresses-Star-Citizen-feature-creep-complaints/

Star Citizen director Chris Roberts has fired back at critics of the project's alleged overambition.

In a blog post today, called claims of feature creep "bulls**t," saying the team was well on its way to delivering a product, but that it would take time.

"Is ‘feature creep’ a worry?" continued Roberts, "Sure… it’s always a worry, and we are well aware of it. However, building the game to the stretch goals embraced and endorsed by the community is not feature creep!"

Sounding more and more like a cult leader than ever before, Roberts grandstanded, "Star Citizen matters BECAUSE it is big, because it is a bold dream. It is something everyone else is scared to try. You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before."

"Is Star Citizen today a bigger goal than I imagined in 2012? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not: it’s the whole damn point."

What started as a relatively modest space-combat sim three years ago has since evolved, via crowdfunding stretch goals, into a crazily ambitious multi-genre epic, spanning the first-person shooter, dogfighting, role-playing and exploration genres.

Roberts recently stated the FPS module of the game is about a month away; the developer also aims to show off "something special" at Gamescom next month.

Other modules, like the multiplayer dogfighting and hangar exploration modules, are available now, only on PC.
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Funny how the narrative from CIG changes after things happen.
 
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dsmart

Banned
D
Osmanthus said:
On another note, does anyone actually have that poll at hand that supposedly showed "overwhelming backer support" for the scope expansion?
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It was rubbish. All of it.

Jun 12, 2014 POLL: Should we continue to offer stretch goals?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13944-Letter-From-The-Chairman-46-Million

Sep 16, 2013, POLL: What should we do with the crowdfunding counter after we reach our goal?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million

Nov 12, 2012, POLL: What do YOU think we could plan to add to our campaign?

https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12760-Poll-Additional-Stretch-Goals
 
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LeSabre

LeSabre
1500 said:
It was neither of those things. It was should we keep having stretch goals, goals that CIG had stated were things they already wanted to do and would not delay development and as such were not in fact feature creep.

20 million letter.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million



And

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/g55aecac92fb0e/Chris-Roberts-addresses-Star-Citizen-feature-creep-complaints/
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Ah the infamous "This will make us go faster, not slower" :D

They've had a few polls over the years, I'm positive a funding poll exists though :)
 

Osmanthus

O
dsmart said:
Sep 16, 2013, POLL: What should we do with the crowdfunding counter after we reach our goal?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million
Click to expand...

So it seems to me that this, the quoted poll, is the one that Reddit talks about when discussing backer support for scope expansion. But as 1500 points out, this poll was run under the recently stated understanding that
we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state.
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Selective memory is a useful way to beat cognitive dissonance

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dsmart said:
LOL!! Speaking of Star Marine...

Star Citizen's Star Marine FPS is now only a month away, Chris Roberts, 20 July 2015
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What a comedian!

e: he missed that estimate by roughly 2000%
 
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jcrg99

Banned
J
Evil_Merlin said:
How in the world did I hijack it? I was an original backer who only gave money two more times. Two years ago, because I wanted to see those ships in game.

Extra money coming in is funding exactly what the users wanted. And keep wanting, as they keep funding it.
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Wait. There is a mathematical issue with this claim. You are saying that it's happening "exactly what the users wanted, keep wanting, as they keep funding it".
If you want to remove the idea of a "project hijacked by a few, making RSI breaking promises made to everyone else to appeal to this few", tell us how many "users" are doing what you said? Are you claiming that the majority of the backers "keep wanting" and most importantly... "keep funding it"?

I am confuse. Because mathematically, if most of people "keep funding it" they would have much more than one billion dollars at this point.
 
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