Rank lock the 'Conda to expert or master?!

[House0fDerp]

If they legit earned their Conda, then they'll see me trundling up behind them from a light year away. At the very least, they would turn and low wake, or fall into the gravity well of a planet to make interdiction impossible.

On the other hand, if they exploited their way to stardom, the last thing they'll see are my shells exploding all over their poorly shielded modules.

Easy come, easy go.

Naw, spent months in open and never actually saw hostile players, and with no impetus to learn avoidance, didn't. If the game had wider matchmaking or set everyone on the path to interactive hotspots you might have a point, but in my experience random PvP is actually pretty rare.

Not sure why people think milling around for a few extra months leads to exceptional competence with a tool you've never touched in a situation you may never have been in, but that seems to be the norm here.

 

[Aussiedroid]

Not sure if locking the Conda will help really, although I wouldn't object/care if it was locked out to a rank or some other measure. I don't really see it as a big deal though. Perhaps, there could be another Pilot Federation ship to unlock for the larger ships based on rank, Conda Mk2 or something else to reward players?

 

[Minecraf345]

Only way you are taking my Conda is through my cold-dead hands. Worked my butt off trying to get it. No way I am letting it go now.

 

[Red Anders]

What about the elite rank needed to enter to shinrarta dezhra? Isn't that a competence test?

I have access to Founder's by virtue of being Elite ranked in exploration.

Competences required:

Make a successful FSD jump
Successfully target an object with a scanner equipped.
Sell exploration data at a station.

Pretty sure I'd mastered those after about an hour.

 

[nosleepdemon]

Naw, spent months in open and never actually saw hostile players, and with no impetus to learn avoidance, didn't. If the game had wider matchmaking or set everyone on the path to interactive hotspots you might have a point, but in my experience random PvP is actually pretty rare.

Not sure why people think milling around for a few extra months leads to exceptional competence with a tool you've never touched in a situation you may never have been in, but that seems to be the norm here.

Of course they would know how to avoid interdiction. If your combat rank is low in a Big Ship, you obviously spent either a long time in smaller, poorly protected trading vessels, or exploited your way. Assuming the former, one would expect experience in avoiding, and looking out for, interdictions from both players and NPCs.

 

[Mostly Awol]

The logic is no different than not qualifying a divemaster with less than 60 logged dives or asking a heavy goods vehicle driver be 21 and have a valid drivers license before getting behind the wheel with an instructor.

"So, fresh out of Space Academy with two hours in a Sidewinder, here's the keys to a 400 ton Anaconda. We foresee nothing, but good things from this arrangement."

It's called common sense.

Same thing happens in real life. Oh got your drivers license great instead of that cheap Honda take the keys to the Ferrari and have some fun. This is a sim type game which means stupid people with tons of money and buy the "bling" type ships without knowing anything. With that being said how does it ruin your game?

 

[House0fDerp]

Of course they would know how to avoid interdiction. If your combat rank is low in a Big Ship, you obviously spent either a long time in smaller, poorly protected trading vessels, or exploited your way. Assuming the former, one would expect experience in avoiding, and looking out for, interdictions from both players and NPCs.

Except I didn't, and the ironic thing is that I actually had combat rank from fighting NPCs. My hauling endeavors that early on either ended with a dead NPC or on a couple occasions the rebuy screen with NPCs. Because of literally never encountering hostile players and the techniques used to avoid PvP conflict not being intuitive those were things that never came to light during that 6 months of play.

The underlying mechanics never came up naturally and for that matter still won't even if you lose a ship or 2.

 

[nosleepdemon]

Except I didn't, and the ironic thing is that I actually had combat rank from fighting NPCs. My hauling endeavors that early on either ended with a dead NPC or on a couple occasions the rebuy screen with NPCs. Because of literally never encountering hostile players and the techniques used to avoid PvP conflict not being intuitive those were things that never came to light during that 6 months of play.

The underlying mechanics never came up naturally and for that matter still won't even if you lose a ship or 2.

Really? When I'm hauling goods I'm badgered regularly by ships that have "come a long way for what's in your hold". My trade rank is only Entrepeneur.

 

[House0fDerp]

Really? When I'm hauling goods I'm badgered regularly by ships that have "come a long way for what's in your hold". My trade rank is only Entrepeneur.

I haven't payed attention to trade rank in a while but my methods never would have changed without seeking outside info on the game, and looking up best practices to avoid interdiction, many of which i still haven't used since most of my ships don't have cargo racks anymore because hauling turned out to not be my thing.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Nope... It is just an endurance test. Being Elite in any of the 3, is just Endurance.

EDIT: The only one of the 3 that could meassure Competence, would be PvP Combat. But since Combat rank is not related to PvP, it is still just an Endurance meter. Nothing more, nothing less.

You can develop your combat skills with PvE.

I have access to Founder's by virtue of being Elite ranked in exploration.

Competences required:

Make a successful FSD jump
Successfully target an object with a scanner equipped.
Sell exploration data at a station.

Pretty sure I'd mastered those after about an hour.

I guess you have a point here.
Now, CQC rank exists and that's pretty much skill based only.

 

[sb413197]

If it bothers people to see others in big ships without combat experience, there's no need to complain. Simply use the in-game mechanics to....rectify the situation. You may well feel better. And if they can in fact defend themselves, more power to them!

 

[kofeyh]

Seeing harmless players in Anaconda's is breaking the game IMO, It just looks wrong.

You understand that's a combat rank we see? What if they are much higher exploration or trade rank. No, you're right, let's just lock away a ship behind more grind, that just encourages even more exploiting of in-game functionality (in the original sense, not the game specific sense).

Yes that should end well. If they are harmless, they may die endlessly if challenged, and then clog the forums with endless irrelevant posts about their feels on the matter of the Anacond--oh.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

You understand that's a combat rank we see? What if they are much higher exploration or trade rank. No, you're right, let's just lock away a ship behind more grind, that just encourages even more exploiting of in-game functionality (in the original sense, not the game specific sense).

Yes that should end well. If they are harmless, they may die endlessly if challenged, and then clog the forums with endless irrelevant posts about their feels on the matter of the Anacond--oh.

Doesn't that argument support the idea of ultra cheap ships to begin with? More than 100 Mcr is a fair amount of money and that's one reason people do exploits to begin with.
IMO the solution here is to make the "grind" a pleasant, dinamic and engaging part of the game, that way you keep the value of the premium ships and keep people out from the exploits while enjoying the game. Obsidian Ant made a video about this once.

 

[kofeyh]

Doesn't that argument support the idea of ultra cheap ships to begin with?

.. that is how people start. With cheap ships. So apart from stating the obvious, I am lost as to what that means?

More than 100 Mcr is a fair amount of money and that's one reason people do exploits to begin with.

No, people exploit mechanics (as apposed to the game itself; there's a difference) because frontier have decided more expensive ships can do more. This isn't entirely unexpected. Most games have some sort of concept of higher level gear requiring more work than lower level gear and that higher level stuff tends to be better. Also "fair amount" is personal observation; I have over 2 bil in one account, and I barely consider that a "fair amount". At the end of the day, there's no inflation and credits are essentially meaningless. They are a gateway to activities, nothing more.

As a side note, I also have a hard-mode account, so "100 mil" is currently the goal and if I hit that, then I reckon that's a fair amount for that play style, as on ship-loss it's a save clear.

IMO the solution here is to make the "grind" a pleasant, dinamic and engaging part of the game, that way you keep the value of the premium ships and keep people out from the exploits while enjoying the game. Obsidian Ant made a video about this once.

Sure. However Frontier essentially designed the game to offer two paths; the journey, and the destination. The problem however, is two fold. A, the journey can be fun, but isn't overly engaging at this time. There's a lot of repetition. This may be fine for those who are all about the journey, but it sucks for those who just want to get to the destination. B, people refuse to accept that both are valid.

However, what we tend to see is those on "the journey" assume their way is the golden path, and those who are all about "the destination" are just playing incorrectly. This then creates a degree of conflict and is forcing one style over the other. To me? I just think both should remain viable. Frontier could certainly stand to add more depth to the journey, and maybe more will enjoy the journey as a consequence? Absolutely. But that's really up to Frontier to do.

Ultimately, these are fundimentally different ideals. This is fine, because the developer has essentially catered for both. Not overly well, as it turns out. But they have tried. The sooner people grasp this -- and just get back to either enjoying the rewards of the effort, or the effort to get the rewards (whichever is your thing) -- the better.

Either is valid. Neither cheats the other. Despite endless commentary to the contrary. Play the game; preferably enjoy it. Whatever you do. Or why. Right on!

 

[Shinji Ikari]

.. that is how people start. With cheap ships. So apart from stating the obvious, I am lost as to what that means?

If I understand well you stated that ships should have a little grind as possible, one way to cut the grind off is by making the big ships very cheap.

No, people exploit mechanics (as apposed to the game itself; there's a difference) because frontier have decided more expensive ships can do more.

Well, of course the big ships can do more, if they couldn't people would spend their money on other ships or modules. People want the expensive ships because of what you said, oh but there's a problem, they are expensive so people get around this by getting credits ASAP with any exploit (mechanics exploit) they can find.

Also "fair amount" is personal observation; I have over 2 bil in one account, and I barely consider that a "fair amount". At the end of the day, there's no inflation and credits are essentially meaningless. They are a gateway to activities, nothing more.

Maybe 100 Mcr isn't too much though to A rate a Cutter you need more than a Bcr, mind you, that's about what you need to become an elite trader.
Because credits do not inflate doesn't mean the are "essentially meaningless", if you were to never get credits you would never get out of the sidey.

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

If I understand well you stated that ships should have a little grind as possible, one way to cut the grind off is by making the big ships very cheap.


Well, of course the big ships can do more, if they couldn't people would spend their money on other ships or modules. People want the expensive ships because of what you said, oh but there's a problem, they are expensive so people get around this by getting credits ASAP with any exploit (mechanics exploit) they can find.


Maybe 100 Mcr isn't too much though to A rate a Cutter you need more than a Bcr, mind you, that's about what you need to become an elite trader.
Because credits do not inflate doesn't mean the are "essentially meaningless", if you were to never get credits you would never get out of the sidey.

To be fair its not so much the price of the ship thats expensive, its the modules fitted that are the real bank account emptiers lol. My cutter cost about what? 180mill? With the 10% discount but when fully fitted its worth around 800-900 million.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Not sure about that Bobby. How you gonna smash those rocks open without firing a shot?

Fairly sure - unless mining has become an unavoidable element of achieving Trade or Exploration Elite rank?

 

[kofeyh]

If I understand well you stated that ships should have a little grind as possible, one way to cut the grind off is by making the big ships very cheap.

Nope, I said no such thing. I suggested it be more rewarding. And that's it. If it was more rewarding, then there would be more on the journey, and less just about the destination, right?

But, today, it's just not overly enjoyable or rewarding. There's still a lot of repetition. But it doesn't really keep me awake at night, to be fair. There are so many other things I actually care about. How people make credits - just isn't one of them. I can't even make myself care.

A lot of other mechanics are broken or limited in scope; those are the things I care about, because they form part of the experience, and, ironically, serve to make the progress to larger ships (and many other things) far more rewarding.

 

[kofeyh]

Fairly sure - unless mining has become an unavoidable element of achieving Trade or Exploration Elite rank?

Nonsense Robert, why I combat-logged to a greifing asteroid chunk just last week! It had engineering G5 hacks! It would have killed me in five seconds if I hadn't! Nerf asteroid chunks frontier!!!1


> please don't hurt me. I am sorry. It was funny. I just.. noooooo-
[1 contact lost]

 

[Robert Maynard]

> please don't hurt me. I am sorry. It was funny. I just.. noooooo-
[1 contact lost]

It would seem that my scanner is unable to resolve a contact from such a poor signal....