External View [A definitive discussion]

[Schwarzwolf]

I personally would be happy about a external view. Seeing the ships in external view like the Anaconda in the video is something, i would miss.

But there should be indeed some restrictions.
1. It shouldn't break the cockpit immersion. So switching to this view should work like one of the monitors. Like looking to the side and then having the holographic screen popping up to see the ship.
2. Combat is a no go. So no hud, etc. in third person
3. Shouldn't work as docking help aswell.

How this could be made:
1. Computer generation. The computer is generating a picture of the ship in the exterior view.
2. How read somewhere, camera drones to see the ship from the outside.

The first one would be good for a fast look at the ship if we want to admire our ship. The backdraw is, why shouldn't something like this work near a station? Possible would be, that the view isn't working, when the ship is mass locked, because the gravitation would interference with the sensors to much, for a picture generation.
The second one is aswell intresting. A drone who can be controlled and used for looking around. The own ship can't be flown to this time.

I personally would be happy to see both options, as long the first one wouldn't give any benefits, what would be the case, with the mass lock restriction.

Intresting could be aswell a rear view camera.

 

[Zaptruder]

It's with some degree of irony that we are able to wear VR headsets to feel totally immersed within the Elite Dangerous universe, while the pilot from whose perspective you play the game from... doesn't have a functionality that mimics the VR headset you're wearing.

If there was, then the idea of full view third person would be utterly congruous with the idea of inhabiting the game from the pilot's point of view.

All you'd need is a good transition to indicate this mode switch within the logic of the universe.

I would recommend an effect where the lines and shapes in the cockpit transitions to wireframe, the camera pulls back and out of the ship still in wireframe, then recrystallizes with textures. The transition back would be a simple cut right back into the pilot's POV to show that this is the primary view that doesn't require the 'VR mode'.

While combat balancing is not the primary concern of not having 3rd person - the logic for combat balancing 3rd person camera is because if we respect the notion of the player playing the pilot, then we'd want a situation where the game does not inadvertantly force people to go third person because of the slight percieved advantages provided by 3rd person while in combat.

 

[SAB380]

Imagine the unquestionable vision of the next generation immersion of being the same as Elite 1 will be so innovative that the limits of perception will be pushed so hard that a crash to desktop will result in me staring at Windows 8.

Which looks awful.

 

[nats]

I obviously havent bothered to read this massive thread so I am wondering what is the issue with NOT having an external view? It is just something to do with thinking someone will be able to make use of it to cheat in multiplayer someway? (meh! is my response to that)

Have to say if Frontier dont do it then some modder will. There is no way I am playing this game without being able to see the outside of my ship. Its just stupid arguing about it. Its essential.

Even Rise of Flight has many external views and thats a well-serious sim game. If they dont have a variety of good external views when the game ships there will be a serious uproar. The game will be the laughing stock of simulations worldwide!

Seriously I cant even understand what the issue is about this? Its just stupid to query why external views shouldnt exist. Name just one sim that doesnt have them please you lot who are arguing against them. I dare you to name even one.

 

[Frobitz]

I obviously havent bothered to read this massive thread so I am wondering what is the issue with NOT having an external view? It is just something to do with thinking someone will be able to make use of it to cheat in multiplayer someway? (meh! is my response to that)

Have to say if Frontier dont do it then some modder will. There is no way I am playing this game without being able to see the outside of my ship. Its just stupid arguing about it. Its essential.

Even Rise of Flight has many external views and thats a well-serious sim game. If they dont have a variety of good external views when the game ships there will be a serious uproar. The game will be the laughing stock of simulations worldwide!

Seriously I cant even understand what the issue is about this? Its just stupid to query why external views shouldnt exist. Name just one sim that doesnt have them please you lot who are arguing against them. I dare you to name even one.

Elite: Dangerous as it is now. And it's fine.

You'll find a lot of sims online multiplayer servers also are set to disallow external views (among other things) for realism and balance.

 

[NeilF]

I obviously havent bothered to read this massive thread so I am wondering what is the issue with NOT having an external view? It is just something to do with thinking someone will be able to make use of it to cheat in multiplayer someway? (meh! is my response to that)

Have to say if Frontier dont do it then some modder will. There is no way I am playing this game without being able to see the outside of my ship. Its just stupid arguing about it. Its essential.

Even Rise of Flight has many external views and thats a well-serious sim game. If they dont have a variety of good external views when the game ships there will be a serious uproar. The game will be the laughing stock of simulations worldwide!

Seriously I cant even understand what the issue is about this? Its just stupid to query why external views shouldnt exist. Name just one sim that doesnt have them please you lot who are arguing against them. I dare you to name even one.

The first post does list the game play balance concerns. While I don't agree with all of them, or believe they can be "solved", I don't believe they can simply be ignored.

Hopefully FD will come to a nice compromise/solution and we'll get a nice external view, that doesn't compromise gameplay

 

[CaptainSodom]

You'll find a lot of sims online multiplayer servers also are set to disallow external views (among other things) for realism and balance.

And you'll find a lot of them which have external views. Past incarnation of Elite being one of them.

 

[Robert Maynard]

And you'll find a lot of them which have external views. Past incarnation of Elite being one of them.

Must have been one of the sequels as the original did not have an third person view (although it did have port, starboard and aft views in addition to the forward view).

 

[Frobitz]

And you'll find a lot of them which have external views. Past incarnation of Elite being one of them.

Elites never had online multiplayer until now though.

My point was many sims have external views in single player but on the serious online servers where a lot of their community play things like external views, HUD assists and padlock views are often disabled to add realism.

 

[Schwarzwolf]

I would recommend an effect where the lines and shapes in the cockpit transitions to wireframe, the camera pulls back and out of the ship still in wireframe, then recrystallizes with textures. The transition back would be a simple cut right back into the pilot's POV to show that this is the primary view that doesn't require the 'VR mode'.

Thats actually the main concern i think. Most people want to feel like beeing in their ship without any interfering. Therefore the idea with the holographic screen. When you want to see your ship, its zooming to one of the screens and possible even completly in, that the generated/filmed picture fills the whole screen.
The picture is a computer generation or an picture from a drone ship (both things could have advances and disadvances (like the generation not working in mass lock how already told and the drone beeing destroyable and that you can only fly the drone to the time and not your ship).

While combat balancing is not the primary concern of not having 3rd person - the logic for combat balancing 3rd person camera is because if we respect the notion of the player playing the pilot, then we'd want a situation where the game does not inadvertantly force people to go third person because of the slight percieved advantages provided by 3rd person while in combat.

Yes and docking aswell. An enemy ship near you and a station is creating a mass lock. Thats the reason my idea of blocking the exterior view is connected with the mass lock interferencing with the sensors, that the computer can't generate a picture anymore. We actually don't know how the sensors would work in detail, so there could be a way to explain it. The real reason is of course, to disable it in combat and by docking. So peoples who don't want to use the third person view, wouldn't have any disadvances.

 

[Colas]

I would like an external view to:
- learn how to dogfight better. Just like seeing you in video help you progress in sports.
- enjoy the scenery and surroundings

Thus, I guess an external view system that could not be used in combat could fit the bill. Ideally, being able to replay the last minute(s) either from a fixed point, or better, from another ship perspective could be very useful to understand what we did wrong.

Drones could provide this, if you can replay them only after scooping them back up (or after "death"). Or being able to see through "allied" or "neutral" ships, bases (for landings).

Or just having the external view available in "replay" mode, replay being available only out of combat?

In a nutshell: give us our GoPros

 

[SAB380]

This thread and topic is going to be awesome in about 2 days time.
Early prediction is both sides of the argument are going to have a total meltdown.

Note to self: Avoid all external view threads from now on

 

[V3teran]

Yes i vote for an external view, Elite is not the same without it. Nice to look at the ship from an external view while passing by a Huge gas giant or skimming the surface of Mars. It looks nice and i really would like to have an external view.

 

[Lugalbandak]

no external view please , doesnt make sence , or its som drone , but then a screen inside your cockpit. Lets keep it real. Lots of games are ruined by 3pv.

too much immersion braking , besides you have 3pv in fitting screen.

you drive a car with 3pv too?

 

[jabokai]

you drive a car with 3pv too?

Soon!

 

[NeilF]

no external view please , doesnt make sence , or its som drone , but then a screen inside your cockpit. Lets keep it real. Lots of games are ruined by 3pv.

too much immersion braking , besides you have 3pv in fitting screen.

you drive a car with 3pv too?

This has been covered heavily over this thread, but if in doubt refer to the first post.

But to summarise:-
1) An external view makes no less sense that the countless other gameplay caveats and limitations in the game.
2) No one (few people) "wants to drive their car in 3pv". They simply want to be able to get out of it and look around better. ie: Not play the game from an eternal view, but be able to look around at the game world better from time to time.
3) There are other examples of similar such views already in the game. Namely galaxy map and refitting within space stations.
4) If you're worried about it breaking (your) "immersion", don't use it.

ps: FD have repeatedly mentioned such a view being available via a drone. So if it is offered it's likely to come in this guise.

 

[NeilF]

So any bets that today brings an external view?

I predict no!

 

[Robert Maynard]

So bets that today brings an external view?

I predict no!

Probably not.... I am, however, interested to see how Frontier develop the camera drone concept.

 

[Frobitz]

So any bets that today brings an external view?

I predict no!

They might extend the hangar view to be more controllable I suppose.

Or they could surprise us with a single player only external view.

Outside chance: Full external view anywhere to assess how much of an impact it makes on game / sh*tstorm it causes in forum ;-)

 

[Lugalbandak]

Soon!

its gonna be a mess on the streets