In the end ED was not designed as an MMO at all ... at least not with the same requirement to be met as any other such.
Since the thread has gone in different direction as intended, I will post one more time my thoughts about the shared information.
My original idea was to find out what PvP players do in ED and how do they deal with the current state of the game as PvP players.
As we all are also PvE players I also asked if people would not prefer something better then solo since generally the idea of an MMO is not to play alone. After all that is why MMOs became that huge on the first place because a long time ago we did not had the option to play with countless of potential play mates. I was not aware that suddenly everyone prefers to play MMOs alone, since I don't play MMOS since years, that is news to me. I am pretty sure it's because of the game play mechanic of ED however and that everything is so difficult with more commanders in the way. It is the same in WoW if you all try to collect the same resource at endgame like some flower weed on the ground. If it was a PvP server that ground would be highly contested with PvP combat . However if it was a PvE server that ground will be highly contested from people that stand around and try to click on the thing that spawns faster. Still pritty annoying but all a part of regular MMO standard just like PvP Arena and Battlegrounds(just as waiting for a free landing pad). Star Trek Online is a typical MMO and it has all of those things just for example for space mmo that is not EVE.
My Problem was that ED is hiding PvE and PvP content behind smoke and mirrors:
In every MMO just as in ED, in order to do PVP or anything else more interesting you personally, first you have to do all PvE and reach end game. The grindy mmos like Lineage 2 and others belong to the past and while they were for the long run they are ALL changed now. You see most of those Grindy MMOs of the past are still here, but now they are much less grindy. They adapted to the players and improved their late game. Since yes this is only in MMOs not in single player games or in competitive games, it's all about the late game and what is waiting for you there. Game developers by now all figured out that MMO players will always reach the late game. When they do, after all the single player content, the devs push the players in to PvE or PvP content. That is what ED attempted with the Thargoids. I know you may not like it but the Thargoids act exactly as a standalone MMO PvE instance and I think they were intended as such and not as a Single player experience. Hardly there is anything for you to do in an MMO in the end game as Single Player content except repeatable dally quests (Kind of like every mission on the mission boards after you reach max affiliation). And every MMO covers both PvE and PvP players since they are well known and expected to show group divisions in every game that is Massive Multiplayer. Eventually you did everything in the game as I did. I am done I finished it ok, I played throw the Single Player complain. Did every possible mission and mastered it. It took me only 3 to 6 attempt to learn how to do any mission that the mission board has to offer. I am not saying I am Elite Pilot, I am not Elite in anything. But I am 100% done with the Single Player content of the game. Now it seems that the game is equally careless about it's PvP as PvE co-op ... again not hating on the game but really disappointed of it as an advertised MMO game where massive numbers of players get together to play, well you know, together?
It seems the majority of ED players have not played a lot of MMOs neither care about them, yet they play one now. Am I the one that got misled or everyone else on the definition of an MMO or did ED got it wrong or better then every one else?
I see a lot of people that care not for normal MMOs and like the game because it feels more like Single Player game. They also would exchange the Multiplayer option for a better single player options like NPC crew and wings. I understand that playing with others if frustrating and it's all a personal choice. But as the game is advertised as an MMO and Open Play where anything goes I naturally probably as many others assumed Player vs Player battles are awaiting me at the end. We can all agree that we all wish the game was better in the department that we wanted it to be....
Some clarification about game genres that are confusing form some people.
Some people set an example for PvP in MMOs with FPS games and E-Sports / Competitive Team Based games like Online battle Arenas, even MOBAS. How do you not know the difference. The PvP game play of a MMO is 100% different then the Player vs Player game like CS:GO, Dota, LoL and so on that have almost ZERO grind elements and ZERO MMO elements and Zero Single player content. (Do not mention the play vs Bots pls.) If I was looking for a space game like that, I know Fractured Space exists ok. No one here sujested I should play that so that's interesting.
There is no doubt that Elite Dangerous: Arena was Frontier attempt for competitive play in that exact same form. That is exactly what that game/mode was for. Just another Online Arena game that could have been good, but it was not. But no one in his right mind can tell me that this external game was the same game as Elite Dangerous. The PvP for example in WOW is NOT a separate game. It is an extension of the game play of the exactly same MMO, but for Player vs Player content. I have never herd of an MMO but EvE online, for witch some one said that PvP and PvE cannot co-exist. Most MMOs support both things and there is a solution for both player groups.
What I understood now about Elite Dangerous as an MMO.
Now it becomes clear to me that ED actually discourages player interaction, because of the game play mechanics that its based on. I am not saying the game is bad, I am playing it because I love the game. I am just saying that it seems some one that has a lot of experience with single player games have forgot to understand why he should implement a multiplayer in the first place. Since every multiplayer activity feels sort of punishing for all involved players no matter if PvE or PvP. I know it seems that the other players are punishing you but really it's the game play mechanic that is mainly doing that. The logic behind it is what I am after.
Why I am troubled with the game not offering enough PvP , better PvE solutions and the future of it all coexisting.
Because I like this game and I invested time and efforts in to it. I want it to succeed. On every possible trailer of the game it was presented with multiple commanders, wings, exploration expeditions.... NEVER was this game presented as mainly a single player experience. That was only presented as an awesome option that is rare for MMOs and it absolutely is. I just never thought that for most commanders that will end up to be the desired way to play the game given the current state of the game.
What changed yesterday for me.
I have finally teamed up with other PvP players. I was unable to do so throw just playing the game
neither from using this official forums but I just did it the old fashion way googled it. While this is always an option again it's 2017 all MMOs have internal tools for this and I hope next patch will give us that.
My experience and conclusion for what PvP players do in ED (so far).
1. They go in the system for the current CG (Community Goal ).
2. No they do not attack ez targets like your Type 6 ,7,9 (at least the guys I played with), they are mainly looking for other combat ships.
3. They go to the nearest Hazard RES zone and enter it.
4. There they magically find each other and fight each other by setting up their own rules or by attacking first. ask questions latter. Wings, solo you name it. I guess this is the way ED works for PvP I just never got that tooltip for the game ... for PvP go at current CG hazard RES.... go figure I would have gone in a Combat Zone with my logic.
5. .... here it comes ...
THE ENTIRE SYSTEM LAGS BEYOND PLAYABLE.
I was in combat with a ship and I was right behind his tail. Lucky me I shoot him and I damage him all good and dendi. Then I realize some one is shooting and damaging me .... Wait a second we are isolated no other ships around. Then I see how he shoots up front his ship and hits nothing but his lasers stop in empty space.. I'm starting to realize that both of us are at each other tail and both of us are landing direct hist with fixed weapons on the back of your shields ...
I am happy about my first PvP experience on the same grounds as most players here go to, however...
Dear god this game instances cannot handle multiple commanders in the same instance. I am not sure how to deal with this right now. I assume the only way to have a really competitive PvP fight is to not be in CG grounds at with a limited count of players in the same instance/system.
I am sorry all MMOs have problems with 100+ players in the same Game Map/zone/instance. But we are talking about a game Zone with around not more then 20 players and the lag caused us to be able to hit each other on the backs with fixed weapons ... it was fun, hardly the way the game was intended.
Now I hope this only happens in the CG systems and there is no problems with a combat zone of around 40 commanders inside as long as they are in empty systems.
