Would like a new, different exploration ship from FD:

[Susanna]

Maybe a heavier ship like the Corvette or the Cutter would benefit of a Size 8 FSD

I just use the external camara if I want an unobstructed view, besides, you can watch below the panel with the Asp.

I was thinking about a JumpaCutter build yesterday too... It would really benefit from a larger FSD, and it would still have lousy handling but it could boost to a decent speed as long as it was in a straight line...

 

[Susanna]

I'm sure when the "priority" for this game finally evolves from "combat first" mentality, Exploration ships may eventually get some much needed attention.

As long as FD is first and foremost basing new ship design with combat-centric game play in mind, we're no doubt going to have more of the same. It's pretty evident that FD views "exploration" in this game as a secondary consequence, rather than an intended profession, given their history of little focus on Exploration in general.

They'll do everything possible to please such players, including massive amounts of weapon hardpoints, military slots, defensive capability, agility, huge jump range capability, etc...

...and then leave Explorers with scraps from the table.

Go ahead, FD... prove me wrong. PLEASE.

I Triple Elite dare you.

I'll Triple Elite second that! ... Oh, triple elite is as common as beans now. Never mind. Still, it's high time a decent exploration ship was released!

 

[Susanna]

We as Explorers are typically "patient", to be sure. That said, it's been 3+ years and we're still waiting on some sort of "priority focus".

I'm not asking for an exploration-centric ship "tomorrow", I'm just simply asking them to stop treating Explorers like we're "second class citizens" compared to combat-centric types that they pander to consistently whenever they scream "balance/imbalance!". (They seem to respond to those changes pretty quickly in comparison... which leads me to believe their general focus is on pewpew)

Exploration improvements should be at the very least "on the radar" and announced as such, rather than the complete radio silence we regularly receive. Some minor QOL improvements, such as utilization of scanning equipment in Utility slots instead of Internals would go a loooooooong way in showing some good faith in their effort to improve the profession and activities available in this game as a whole.

I'm all for a new "exploration" type ship to be introduced, to be sure, but we can at least deal with some of the ships as currently implemented if we're able to utilize them more efficiently.

I'd rep you again for this post!

Care to do some exploration with me some time? [yesnod]

 

[Susanna]

Oh, so let's get y about it, instead of thinking about what I mean with my opposing opinion?

For the record, no, I do not agree with any of Mengy's definition of an "exploration vessel".
1. Jump range isn't necessary, there's all kinds of hard proof of that, like TomParkes1993 taking every ship in the game to Sag. A and back (and I think he's started doing Beagle Point as well) or the fellow who spent 2 years going around the edge of the galaxy in a stock Sidewinder. Jump range is for people who wish to *travel* quickly as opposed to slowing down to look at the roses.
2. Supercruise agility is a convenience, not a necessity, especially when with supercruise, you're going to spend the vast majority of your time aiming at a focus point & not moving at all. (cough cough Fdev, look at my timer thread on that topic)
3. You also don't need 6 internals; you only need 2. The DSS is there for more credits & helps if you also bring an SRV, have horizons, and wish to find certain things on planet surfaces.
4. If you don't care about Horizons content, you also don't need the SRV.
5. I would personally highly recommend a shield if doing landings, but it's not a strict necessity since the vast majority of your time won't involve shielding, and many explorers even just turn the things off anyhow.
6. I've also, not once, ever had to use an AFMU. It's nice to have as a safety-measure if you're planning a year-long expedition or somesuch, but so long as you're paying half attention whilst jumping to and fro, you aren't going to need it. (I've been to Colonia twice without having to use a single heatsink, for that matter.)

So my whole point is that asking for a new "exploration ship" is practically just saying "Hey, Fdev, can we get a new ship?".

And no, I'm not against having new ships, more variety is always nice. But painting it as though the options we have for exploration ships - as opposed to fast traveling ships - are limited is, as I see it, wholly disingenuous when literally every available ship in the game will suffice for the job if you want it to.

And I can use a bucket for a hat, but I'm not inclined to...

 

[Susanna]

I think there should be at least a single class 1, just in case someone wants to mount a mining laser. Besides, it's pretty much traditional for all ships to have at least one hardpoint.

2 hard points... Plasma slug rail gun for burning off excess fuel.

Would Loooooove a dedicated Gutamaya exploration ship

Seconded!

 

[Deleted member 38366]

In terms of dedicated Explorers, we technically have only 2 Ships.

The AspX and DBX.
Their Scout variants are basically just that - Scouts.

So although there are several other Ships that obviously can be used and be effective, it still leaves us with a mere 2 dedicated Exploration Ships.
In a sense, it mirrors the amount of attention Exploration received in the past, so 2 out of 30+ seems realistic.

Things I wouldn't mind to see :
- dedicated Federation Explorer
- dedicated Imperial Explorer
- dedicated Alliance Explorer
(as all 3 are active as SuperPowers in Deep Space, they'll sure need Exploration Ships that suit their specific needs and reflect their own respective philosophy, right?)

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Specialised exploration ship to me means:
* Best in class jump range by a large margin.
* Lots of small slots for exploration and endurance gear (scanners, SRVs, AFMU, aerial reconnaissance (fighter - maybe one day we can have an actual recon flyer with instruments).
* Little or no weapon hardpoints (maybe a token class 1) and a minimal shield.
* No large cargo bays (no large slots).
* Nice cockpit visibility.

Basically it should trade excellent jump range and self-sufficiency for *horrible* combat and trade efficiency.

The asp and keelback kind of fit the bill except the former is too good at combat and both are reasonable traders, plus for a specialist explorer yeah, throw stones at me, it should best the anaconda in jump range. Give me a reason to put Annie in the shed otherwise it's never going to happen.

Not on the list: Manoeuvrability. Come on next you'll want a jacuzzi filled with people and/or robots you find attractive

No large slots?

So where exactly am I supposed to put the fuel scoop?

 

[Poseidal]

In terms of dedicated Explorers, we technically have only 2 Ships.

The AspX and DBX.
Their Scout variants are basically just that - Scouts.

So although there are several other Ships that obviously can be used and be effective, it still leaves us with a mere 2 dedicated Exploration Ships.
In a sense, it mirrors the amount of attention Exploration received in the past, so 2 out of 30+ seems realistic.

Things I wouldn't mind to see :
- dedicated Federation Explorer
- dedicated Imperial Explorer
- dedicated Alliance Explorer
(as all 3 are active as SuperPowers in Deep Space, they'll sure need Exploration Ships that suit their specific needs and reflect their own respective philosophy, right?)

The Imperial Explorer used to be a thing in FFE, and back then the Asp was a Fed ship.

In the Alliance, one of the founding members was a ship designer and explorer, the ships were sold all over though (independent really), apart from the Quest/Turner Class which was as story thing.

 

[HBK]

No large slots?

So where exactly am I supposed to put the fuel scoop?

Large Fuel Scoops are 100%, pure, unadulterated convenience.

They only matter when wanting to travel very large distances as fast as possible.

They are utterly irrelevant to the actual exploration process.

You can reach the most distant stars with a 1A fuel scoop. It'll just take a little while longer to get there.

Edit: Did the math to be sure. The worst fuel scoop ever, the dreaded 1E fuel scoop, can actually at max rate fill up 64.8 tons per hour, meaning they can easily feed even the most fuel hungry of overcharged 8A power generators (which I reckon would eat about 5 T/h tops).

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Large Fuel Scoops are 100%, pure, unadulterated convenience.

They only matter when wanting to travel very large distances as fast as possible.

They are utterly irrelevant to the actual exploration process.

You can reach the most distant stars with a 1A fuel scoop. It'll just take a little while longer to get there.

So are SRVs, SLFs, AFMUs and Heat Sinks, and yet the post I was replying to included all of those.
Not even the ADS or DSS are crucial to being able to explore distant stars - the ADS particularly being '100% pure, unadulterated convenience'. But I don't see anyone campaigning for a ship with only one class one slot for fitting a fuel scoop in.

 

[HBK]

So are SRVs, SLFs, AFMUs and Heat Sinks, and yet the post I was replying to included all of those.
Not even the ADS or DSS are crucial to being able to explore distant stars - the ADS particularly being '100% pure, unadulterated convenience'. But I don't see anyone campaigning for a ship with only one class one slot for fitting a fuel scoop in.

SRVs allow you to explore rock planets/moons "on foot". Heat Sinks can save your life in very specific (albeit pretty rare) occasions. AFMUs are debatable as they can't repair the PP and as such are of limited use. And SLFs are basically useless yeah (if fun).

ADS on the other hand aren't strictly needed but you won't be able to see much of a system without one.

And yeah DSS are basically only there for the monies but it can still allow you to get additional info on the scanned object such as composition, etc. Which is always nice.

Large Fuel Scoops are "only" time savers.

 

[gumbie]

Agreed the Annie needs a good kick in the mass. Everyone knows it, and it would solve the problem with its outclassing jump range tremendously.

My point also being those aren't the only examples, however- there are a lot of others (I didn't even begin to mention Python, etc.)

Multiroles outclass defined role ships, period- end of story. It should not be the case, and until they fix this imbalance they will always outshine defined role ships. Multiroles should be "good" at everything but not the best​ at everything.

I fixed this problem quite by accident. I banged Faulcon DeLacy's wife and he now refuses to sell me any ships.

Ship choice is much more fun now, it was win/win for me

 

[Marklar_]

Plasma slug rail gun for burning off excess fuel.

Yeah, we could really use a better way to dump fuel though, but that's another thread.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

In terms of dedicated Explorers, we technically have only 2 Ships.

The AspX and DBX.
Their Scout variants are basically just that - Scouts.

So although there are several other Ships that obviously can be used and be effective, it still leaves us with a mere 2 dedicated Exploration Ships.
In a sense, it mirrors the amount of attention Exploration received in the past, so 2 out of 30+ seems realistic.

Things I wouldn't mind to see :
- dedicated Federation Explorer
- dedicated Imperial Explorer
- dedicated Alliance Explorer
(as all 3 are active as SuperPowers in Deep Space, they'll sure need Exploration Ships that suit their specific needs and reflect their own respective philosophy, right?)

And even those ships are refitted combat ships.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

SRVs allow you to explore rock planets/moons "on foot". Heat Sinks can save your life in very specific (albeit pretty rare) occasions. AFMUs are debatable as they can't repair the PP and as such are of limited use. And SLFs are basically useless yeah (if fun).

ADS on the other hand aren't strictly needed but you won't be able to see much of a system without one.

And yeah DSS are basically only there for the monies but it can still allow you to get additional info on the scanned object such as composition, etc. Which is always nice.

Large Fuel Scoops are "only" time savers.

So you agree that the only piece of equipment that is vital to exploration is a fuel scoop (even if it's only a small one)

We should campaign for a ship with a huge jump range and only one (class one) module slot.

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

Reading through your points 1 through 6, I see that the problem is you don't understand the very job you say every ship in the game is viable for:

1. Star One. How many ships in the game can reach Star One? There are millions of systems just like that, only reachable by 50+ ly range ships. For a great many explorers, jump range is absolutely a priority.
2. SC agility saves time when scanning systems. Lots of time.
3. ADS, DSS, SRV, fuel scoop, AFMU, and a shield gen. Six internals to be fully prepared for long term deep space exploration. Anything less is very far from optimal and requires sacrificing something important.
4. What explorer doesn't want to explore planet surfaces?
5. Shields save hull points. Landing without a shield will gradually destroy the ship.
6. An AFMU is required if you are using neutron boosts, plus it is huge insurance against mistakes, which do happen even when tens of thousands of lys out in space.

Sure it is possible to explore while ignoring all six of your points, but then it's also possible to farm bounties in a CZ with a Sidewinder, but that does NOT make the Sidewinder a "combat ship".

The fact is that there are just certain traits which make a ship an exploration ship. Frontier understands this, and it's why they've improved the DBX and the Orca while also designing the Dolphin to be a potential explorer. Frontier thankfully gave explorers more choices after the first DWE showed just how limited our choices were. They agree with me, even if you do not, and that's all that really matters.

If the goal is getting a dedicated explorer that's better (and if not there really isn't any point) it should have at a minimum 8 internals to fit a hull repair control limpet and cargo hold just in case of accidents on a long range long term exploration mission, and ideally another for a backup afmu to be 100% self reliant and able to fix all eventualities.

Added to this any more slots needed for equipment any q4 exploration improvements add.

Finally if its size and agility are such it lacks too much in aerial reconnaissance it could use a fighter bay / surface scouting ship bay to fulfill this purpose.

We are after all talking about the pinnacle exploration craft, it should be able to do anything and everything needed in an exploration ship as well as be able to self repair from anything other than total destruction.

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

Large Fuel Scoops are 100%, pure, unadulterated convenience.

They only matter when wanting to travel very large distances as fast as possible.

They are utterly irrelevant to the actual exploration process.

You can reach the most distant stars with a 1A fuel scoop. It'll just take a little while longer to get there.

Edit: Did the math to be sure. The worst fuel scoop ever, the dreaded 1E fuel scoop, can actually at max rate fill up 64.8 tons per hour, meaning they can easily feed even the most fuel hungry of overcharged 8A power generators (which I reckon would eat about 5 T/h tops).

In order to explore you first need to get to the area you are exploring so yes a large fuel scoop is an important part of an exploration ship, both from an in game perspective and a meta game perspective of the time it takes the pilot/player to get to where they are exploring.

 

[Marklar_]

If the goal is getting a dedicated explorer that's better (and if not there really isn't any point) it should have at a minimum 8 internals to fit a hull repair control limpet and cargo hold just in case of accidents on a long range long term exploration mission, and ideally another for a backup afmu to be 100% self reliant and able to fix all eventualities.

Added to this any more slots needed for equipment any q4 exploration improvements add.

Finally if its size and agility are such it lacks too much in aerial reconnaissance it could use a fighter bay / surface scouting ship bay to fulfill this purpose.

We are after all talking about the pinnacle exploration craft, it should be able to do anything and everything needed in an exploration ship as well as be able to self repair from anything other than total destruction.

That basically describes the Anaconda.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

So you agree that the only piece of equipment that is vital to exploration is a fuel scoop (even if it's only a small one)

We should campaign for a ship with a huge jump range and only one (class one) module slot.

Why does an exploration ship need a long jump-range? A long jump-range is just a convenience for getting somewhere quickly. Getting somewhere fast is not exploration, it's space tourism or racing.

The ideal exploration ship has low jump-range, only one slot for a class 1 fuel scoop* and a really good visibility from the cockpit.




*) and that slot can only be used for that scoop, because otherwise it would be a multi-role ship as it could carry cargo

 

[Lightspeed]

A snub-nosed Anaconda might work ...... Lakon-style cockpit at the front for visibility.

Alternatively, a Beluga-Conda ..... without the heat problems, for exploring in style .... oh and without the tail fins But they might prove useful with atmosphere!