New upgrade System - "Your time is valueable"- is a pure grind and waste of everyones time

[Karunamon]

Give it a rest. By 'closed minded' and 'dopey' what you mean is 'people have a different opinion of it to you'.

Yeah, this. I'm applying the Yahtzee Croshaw method to managing expectations on this game from now on, namely assume whatever they do will be utter pants, be right more often than not and get a small shot of smug self-satisfaction, and get to be pleasantly surprised on the rare occasions when it comes out the other way.

Because if you believe this won't be botched at launch and riddled with reported-in-beta bugs like every other headline feature, I have some oceanfront property in Hutton Orbital to sell you.

 

[Cageman]

Most comments in this "Elite got a lot worse... oh the grind" are completely ignoring the fact that each material now has 100 slots to store things in. This is a hell of a lot more than we got currently.

Lets play the BETA, shall we, and see how things works out and then give constructive critisism towards the Developers, once we actually do TEST this?

Jesus christ, the whining on this forum is just beyond bad.

Am I really reading comments from Adult people here? Really?

 

[Naskoni]

Hot damn FD! I was one of the people that actually liked the old engineering system just the way it was - sure, every now and then it'd frustrate me when seeking a very specific material for a specific upgrade and if I wanted it NAO!!!11!!!, but as a whole it was fine.

The proposed changes to engineering do not decrease the grind at all, not a tiny bit, zilch! They would increases it by at LEAST a factor of TEN and then some. So much so I'd rather not bother any more. Instead of needing 1-6 grade 5 rolls on average to get what I want now I HAVE to collect materials and go through every, foooking, SINGLE grade for EACH module, every single time and do so a random number of times at each level?!? How the hell is this supposed to make things better in ANY way? I have NEVER needed so many damned rolls for ANY module to get what I wanted out of it. Literally - N-E-V-E-R! Yes, I didn't expect "god-rolls" on everything but I did get very good ones within the first 10 attempts and even that was rare. And on top of that I no longer even have the chance to get an above average roll as the secondaries are out, thus even the damned end result will be worse as far as I'm concerned.

I cannot fathom who in their right mind would think this system is better, not to mention that the grind will be lessened as to entice more people to go into engineering. The word "insane" came to mind. The new grind would be insane! Instead of collecting materials needed for grade 5 now I have to collect materials for grade 1, grade 2, grade 3, grade 4 AND grade 5! Because now every roll would be guaranteed better? As in 0.1% better, which is basically nothing? No, thanks!

 

[nathdixon92]

Most comments in this "Elite got a lot worse... oh the grind" are completely ignoring the fact that each material now has 100 slots to store things in. This is a hell of a lot more than we got currently.

Lets play the BETA, shall we, and see how things works out and then give constructive critisism towards the Developers, once we actually do TEST this?

Jesus christ, the whining on this forum is just beyond bad.

Am I really reading comments from Adult people here? Really?

Afraid so.

 

[Dbrn47]

Most comments in this "Elite got a lot worse... oh the grind" are completely ignoring the fact that each material now has 100 slots to store things in. This is a hell of a lot more than we got currently.

Lets play the BETA, shall we, and see how things works out and then give constructive critisism towards the Developers, once we actually do TEST this?

Jesus christ, the whining on this forum is just beyond bad.

Am I really reading comments from Adult people here? Really?

As far as I've seen, no one has an issue with having more storage, in fact it is a plus. It doesn't quite change the amount of materials needed or how long it's going to take to get them though does it? It's easy to call people whining children when you aren't concerned with even attempting to empathize with what issues could present themselves. There was enough information to extract and form opinions. Yes, we all need to test it and we will, but that doesn't mean there can't be some concerns going in.

 

[Cageman]

As far as I've seen, no one has an issue with having more storage, in fact it is a plus. It doesn't quite change the amount of materials needed or how long it's going to take to get them though does it?

This is what BETA is for... Pinned blueprints should increase your chance in finding the materials you need. Will this work? Lets BETA-test this!!! Jumping to conclusions and then totally dismiss the enhancements (material brooker, increased storage space, blueprints affecting your chance to find said materials) is just a very stupid thing to do, at this point.

What the whining is about, currently, is based on the OLD system and how it works and then applied to this new, untested system, as if changes have not been made towards the RNG.

Lets test this out, shall we?

 

[Morbad]

I find it really hard to believe that any of them have organically unlocked the engineers and then upgraded a ship from scratch. I just can't believe this would seem like a good idea if they had.

I've had all 20 engineers unlocked at G5 forever and am closing in on 5k mods done, half of them G5, and I like the new system.

My only major complaint is that everyone gets to keep all their old stuff, even if it's clearly going to be superior. Personally, I don't much care what the rules are or what the system is, within reason, as long as everyone is playing with the same ones.

Yea, the reward sounds neat, but the work still sounds the same... possibly worse (if you never rolled for god rolls).

As someone who as rolled for, and acquired plenty of 'god-rolls', I have the opposite view.

Much less work to get a complete ship, but no new ship I make is likely to be competitive with my own previously near complete vessels, or those of others who had done similar degrees of engineering.

I'd be fine with an even more streamlined progression than the new system provides, but the old rolls have to go.

I'd bet you that less than 0.1% of players did that

Less than 0.1% of players and damn near 100% of my direct competition.

I also highly disagree with your "20 rolls = godroll" assessment. I mean take a google, some people take hundreds and are still unhappy with the result.

Sixth set of rolls (of 30-80 rolls per set) on my C5 DD5 thrusters...still looking for something competitive for my FDL:

[video=youtube;LoHsE7ewxCY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoHsE7ewxCY[/video]

Been trying to get thrusters for this ship that I'd find acceptable for more than a year (I haven't indulged in any exploits and I don't mode switch or abuse instancing impersistence).

Until people actually play the game and can draw some conclusions on how all changes combined make it better / worse, you're just letting your do the talking.

I thought there was enough info in this latest live stream to draw solid extrapolations, but I'm going to try to remake my current Courier, Vulture, and Corvette in the new system when the beta drops to see how they compare.

I predict the Vulture will be slightly better, the Courier not too far off, and the entire Corvette build to be entirely impossible due to the number and combination of rare secondaries it requires to power everything.

We'll see.

The reason to engineer is to improve your ship to a level that is acceptable to the desire of the player. Not everyone min-maxes their ships....for some a decent roll is good enough.

'Good enough' is entirely relative to what the opposition has.

The bigger picture? In 6 months everybody has the same maxed out ships.

More like one month, but that's better than, people going 12-18 months without getting what they are looking for.

Having better Engineers system is about it serving actual game, not min max PvP measurement contests.

The game didn't need Engineers at all.

Because not everybody play game just to upgrade their ships?

I upgrade my ships to play the game.

If you want to have the top gear on your ship, you should work for it like you have to work for anything. As Sandro said, Engineering is supposed to be a continuous journey not done over night.

It's never going to be that way, in any good way.

Current/old Engineering system has been a continuous journey for me largely because certain key components seem to continually elude me. It's tedious and not particularly fun.

The new system will ensure I can take any ship I care to and walk away with every module on it maxed out in a weekend...less tedious, but no real sense of progression. Not that I care about progression in this regard. Ships are a means to an end, not an end in and of themselves.

 

[Frenotx]

Grind or no grind... My issue is the fact The Engineers simply creates a huge unnecessary arms race to an upper tier for seemingly no real purpose. And all paid for via the same gameplay we've basically been doing for 2-3 years anyway.

This latest changes should take the opportunity to dial back the uber benefits upgrades give you, such they're nice to have, but not God life (eg: when you have a G5).

THIS. THANK YOU.
This is FDev's chance to dial down the amount of upgrade engineers give you (and make it more personalization / specialization / sidegrade), but they're completely throwing it away with grandfathering. Not only that, they're EXACERBATING the issue, as the keep assuring us modules made under the new system will generally be better! Madness, I tell you. Huge balance misstep.

 

[CMDR Percivus Keenblade]

Grind or no grind... My issue is the fact The Engineers simply creates a huge unnecessary arms race to an upper tier for seemingly no real purpose. And all paid for via the same gameplay we've basically been doing for 2-3 years anyway.

This latest changes should take the opportunity to dial back the uber benefits upgrades give you, such they're nice to have, but not God life (eg: when you have a G5).

THIS. THANK YOU.
This is FDev's chance to dial down the amount of upgrade engineers give you (and make it more personalization / specialization / sidegrade), but they're completely throwing it away with grandfathering. Not only that, they're EXACERBATING the issue, as the keep assuring us modules made under the new system will generally be better! Madness, I tell you. Huge balance misstep.

Exactly seeing it the same way. Make the maximum treshold of benefit from upgrading a module to what current g2 does, tune everything down to it accordingly, but noooo we just have to sit by a year or two until they decide to come back on this issue to fix/balance/redesing it, again

 

[Knightshark]

Grind or no grind... My issue is the fact The Engineers simply creates a huge unnecessary arms race to an upper tier for seemingly no real purpose. And all paid for via the same gameplay we've basically been doing for 2-3 years anyway.

This latest changes should take the opportunity to dial back the uber benefits upgrades give you, such they're nice to have, but not God life (eg: when you have a G5).

They do exactly the opposite. The new system, which "guarantees" you better than current godrolled modules, is the ultimate power creep making vanilla a rated ships totally inferior compared to the engineering optimum that is now "in reach" - you know just like the Cutter is in reach.

 

[andrak]

Yeah, I agree, absolutely terrible, screws over new players mostly. Lot of us established players have already G5 modifications and don't need to go trough G1 -> G4 anymore, but for new modules it's terrible.
Also it's not worth to change from one mod to another anymore, if you have G5 overcharged weapons and you want to change to G5 long range you are better of buying a new set of multi cannons and start form the beginning again, spending hundred of materials in the process.

...and good luck storing all those modules with a 60 module limit.

 

[Connolly91]

Yeah, they replaced grindineers with more grind.

 

[Maka Gucci]

I get it what Sandro was trying to say at the stream. Some PvP players probably did more rolls to get that god roll on that weapon than if they had with this new system. Now, they will get a great weapon using less rolls in a more progressive system.
But for those players, including myself, who unlocked lvl 5 engineering and were happy with a couple of G5 rolls, this is going to be a huge grind to upgrade a new ship. Even with the materials broker.

I'll be honest, I'm one of those players that spends 30 roles on a power plant, then another 20 just to still be unsatisfied with my final heat efficiency.

But when I complained about the engineer grind I was very clear, it's not about me being able to do that in less roles, it's about everyone else being able to get close in a sane amount of time. This doesn't fix that.

The initial unlock numbers are still an insane sink, it's an actual pilgrimage just to unlock em in the first place, and since I get to keep all my stuff I most likely have roles new players will never be able to achieve, how does this lessen the void between new and tenured players.

I want balance and a level playing field that encourages more players to try PvP and brave Open, I want to lessen the insane time sink I went through, for future players.
Was lessening the sink even remotely the point or did I miss something cus it doesn't seem like it.

 

[Red Anders]

You can't possibly be this clueless! ??? [rolleyes]

100 unit storage cap PER MATERIAL. 100 unit storage cap PER DATA item!

The materials and data for the low level upgrades are all over the place! Missions, debris fields, everywhere! I am constantly dumping them into space because they clog up my inventory every 20-30 minutes! The G4 mats and data are also very easy to find. Even a good chunk of the G5 mats and data are in mission rewards and stuff like that.

What game are you playing?

We can now KEEP all that stuff up to 100 each and it has ZERO IMPACT on the storage of any other material or data item!

Why? Because for the first time ever we can actually keep 100 of every single material and data in the game! That is HUGE and previously impossible!

Like I asked at the top... Are you really this clueless? Or are you just not bothering to review everything that is being added?

Oh, I missed this.

No sunshine I'm not clueless, wind your neck in. If all you have is insults, step way from the keyboard until you can reply in a civil manner. Also, stop assuming that anybody who doesn't agree with you hasn't bothered to understand all the changes, hell most of the stuff they have announced today is pretty much unchanged from Sandy's original outline of his thoughts on engineering changes and that was published ages ago.

The material storage increase and switch to a per-item cap is very useful, I don't see how anybody could fail to be behind that.

However as for the rest of it, guess what? I don't actually spend much of my game time dropping into random debris fields, or flying around in supercruise in the middle of nowhere looking for high grade USSs, or constantly having to break my target lock on my destination just to drop into some random degraded emissions USS, or driving around aimlessly on planets shooting rocks. None of those things are part of my everyday gameplay they are things that I do specifically to collect materials. Can you really not grasp that?

All of the things in the list that I posted are actually easy to obtain in that they're not rare and unusual, no dispute about that at all. However here is the list again with added notes, let's see if you can get your head round it this time:

• 10 x atypical disrupted wake echoes (I never have a wake scanner equipped unless I'm specifically scanning wakes for engineering data because it's a useless piece of kit for my general play)
• 10 x chemical processors (USSs, Dav's Hope, ship wreckage in res sites etc, allegedly mission rewards - I don't drop into random USSs unless I'm specifically looking for engineering materials, don't go to Dav's Hope unless I'm specifically looking for engineering materials, have been in a res site once in about the last three months because zzzzzzzzzz and despite the fact I currently have more CIF and EFCs than you can shake a stick at from mission rewards, I genuinely can't remember ever seeing chemical processors as a mission reward. Actually if the new mega-ship gameplay gives us a reason to visit them other than the one trip when they were first introduced to look at one and go 'nice megaship' that might possibly be a genuinely incidental source of materials)
• 5 x phosphorus - shooting rocks on a planet. Not high on my list of enthralling ways to spend my spare time unless I'm specifically looking for engineering materials.
• 5 x strange wake solutions - see atypical disrupted wake echoes
• 5 x chemical distillery - see chemical processors
• 5 x eccentric hyperspace trajectory - see atypical disrupted wake echoes
• 5 x manganese - see phosphorus

That's why I consider the time spent on collecting those materials (and many others) as part of the engineering process, because it is literally the only reason I ever do most of the activities concerned to begin with.

So just like the fact that you like the changes because it will cut your average rolls on a mod by about 980 but I'm less keen because it will increase my average rolls on a grade 5 mod by a factor of at least two, you don't consider the time spent collecting that stuff as part of engineering because you would be doing it all anyway, whereas I do consider it part of the time spent in engineering because I wouldn't.

So like I said earlier, the issue isn't that people who disagree with you are thick, clueless or any other insulting term you want to apply. It's simply that the way you play the game isn't the only way, or come to that the 'right' way (or the 'wrong' way') and I would have thought that any player's opinion of these changes will first and foremost be determined by how well they fit naturally into that player's choice of game activity.

 

[Dbrn47]

Oh, I missed this.

No sunshine I'm not clueless, wind your neck in. If all you have is insults, step way from the keyboard until you can reply in a civil manner. Also, stop assuming that anybody who doesn't agree with you hasn't bothered to understand all the changes, hell most of the stuff they have announced today is pretty much unchanged from Sandy's original outline of his thoughts on engineering changes and that was published ages ago.

The material storage increase and switch to a per-item cap is very useful, I don't see how anybody could fail to be behind that.

However as for the rest of it, guess what? I don't actually spend much of my game time dropping into random debris fields, or flying around in supercruise in the middle of nowhere looking for high grade USSs, or constantly having to break my target lock on my destination just to drop into some random degraded emissions USS, or driving around aimlessly on planets shooting rocks. None of those things are part of my everyday gameplay they are things that I do specifically to collect materials. Can you really not grasp that?

All of the things in the list that I posted are actually easy to obtain in that they're not rare and unusual, no dispute about that at all. However here is the list again with added notes, let's see if you can get your head round it this time:

10 x atypical disrupted wake echoes (I never have a wake scanner equipped unless I'm specifically scanning wakes for engineering data because it's a useless piece of kit for my general play)
10 x chemical processors (USSs, Dav's Hope, ship wreckage in res sites etc, allegedly mission rewards - I don't drop into random USSs unless I'm specifically looking for engineering materials, don't go to Dav's Hope unless I'm specifically looking for engineering materials, have been in a res site once in about the last the months because zzzzzzzzzz and despite the fact I currently have more CIF and EFCs than you can shake a stick at from mission rewards, I genuinely can't remember ever seeing chemical processors as a mission reward. Actually if the new mega-ship gameplay gives us a reason to visit them other than the one trip when they were first introduced to look at one and go 'nice megaship' that might possibly be a genuinely incidental source of materials)
5 x phosphorus - shooting rocks on a planet. Not high on my list of enthralling ways to spend my spare time unless I'm specifically looking for engineering materials.
5 x strange wake solutions - see atypical disrupted wake echoes
5 x chemical distillery - see chemical processors
5 x eccentric hyperspace trajectory - see atypical disrupted wake echoes
5 x manganese - see phosphorus

That's why I consider the time spent on collecting those materials (and many others) as part of the engineering process, because it is literally the only reason I ever do most of the activities concerned to begin with.

So just like the fact that you like the changes because it will cut your average rolls on a mod by about 980 but I'm less keen because it will increase my average rolls on a grade 5 mod by a factor of at least two, you don't consider the time spent collecting that stuff as part of engineering because you would be doing it all anyway, whereas I do consider it part of the time spent in engineering because I wouldn't.

So just like I said earlier, the issue isn't that people who disagree with you are thick, clueless or any other insulting term you want to apply. It's simply that the way you play the game isn't the only way, or come to that the 'right' way (or the 'wrong' way') and I would have thought that any player's opinion of these changes will first and foremost be determined by how well they fit naturally into that player's choice of game activity.

Geez, what game are you playing? That sounds terrib... Oh sh...enanigans.

 

[Ydiss]

Oh, I missed this.

No sunshine I'm not clueless, wind your neck in. If all you have is insults, step way from the keyboard until you can reply in a civil manner. Also, stop assuming that anybody who doesn't agree with you hasn't bothered to understand all the changes, hell most of the stuff they have announced today is pretty much unchanged from Sandy's original outline of his thoughts on engineering changes and that was published ages ago.

The material storage increase and switch to a per-item cap is very useful, I don't see how anybody could fail to be behind that.

However as for the rest of it, guess what? I don't actually spend much of my game time dropping into random debris fields, or flying around in supercruise in the middle of nowhere looking for high grade USSs, or constantly having to break my target lock on my destination just to drop into some random degraded emissions USS, or driving around aimlessly on planets shooting rocks. None of those things are part of my everyday gameplay they are things that I do specifically to collect materials. Can you really not grasp that?

All of the things in the list that I posted are actually easy to obtain in that they're not rare and unusual, no dispute about that at all. However here is the list again with added notes, let's see if you can get your head round it this time:

• 10 x atypical disrupted wake echoes (I never have a wake scanner equipped unless I'm specifically scanning wakes for engineering data because it's a useless piece of kit for my general play)
• 10 x chemical processors (USSs, Dav's Hope, ship wreckage in res sites etc, allegedly mission rewards - I don't drop into random USSs unless I'm specifically looking for engineering materials, don't go to Dav's Hope unless I'm specifically looking for engineering materials, have been in a res site once in about the last three months because zzzzzzzzzz and despite the fact I currently have more CIF and EFCs than you can shake a stick at from mission rewards, I genuinely can't remember ever seeing chemical processors as a mission reward. Actually if the new mega-ship gameplay gives us a reason to visit them other than the one trip when they were first introduced to look at one and go 'nice megaship' that might possibly be a genuinely incidental source of materials)
• 5 x phosphorus - shooting rocks on a planet. Not high on my list of enthralling ways to spend my spare time unless I'm specifically looking for engineering materials.
• 5 x strange wake solutions - see atypical disrupted wake echoes
• 5 x chemical distillery - see chemical processors
• 5 x eccentric hyperspace trajectory - see atypical disrupted wake echoes
• 5 x manganese - see phosphorus

That's why I consider the time spent on collecting those materials (and many others) as part of the engineering process, because it is literally the only reason I ever do most of the activities concerned to begin with.

So just like the fact that you like the changes because it will cut your average rolls on a mod by about 980 but I'm less keen because it will increase my average rolls on a grade 5 mod by a factor of at least two, you don't consider the time spent collecting that stuff as part of engineering because you would be doing it all anyway, whereas I do consider it part of the time spent in engineering because I wouldn't.

So just like I said earlier, the issue isn't that people who disagree with you are thick, clueless or any other insulting term you want to apply. It's simply that the way you play the game isn't the only way, or come to that the 'right' way (or the 'wrong' way') and I would have thought that any player's opinion of these changes will first and foremost be determined by how well they fit naturally into that player's choice of game activity.

I'm the same as you. But I definitely found myself collecting a ton of mats that weren't related to what I was seeking at any given time. You pretty much have to go out of your way to not do this (particularly when mining with collectors) because the grade 1-3 stuff is very common. You don't really ever go looking for phosphorus, for example. You find it in abundance whilst looking for grade 4+ stuff.

I always picked common stuff up until my storage got full (at which point I had to micro manage and then stopped picking up common stuff). Well, with 100 slots for everything and the ability to trade in phosphorus for the next grade item (then in turn trade that up, and so on)...

It may be theoretically possible to get some of the really annoyingly rare and difficult g5 mats without actually doing the really annoying thing that's currently required to get them.

And you really should probably have close to 100 of all common mats providing you're actually doing engineers stuff (and not ignoring the common stuff you find, obviously). Every time I had to micro manage my inventory, I had well over 1-200 of the common stuff (and lots of the trash stuff that, at that point, wasn't used).

What will change with this update is I'll make sure to go and trade it up as soon as possible, turning all those hundreds of units I previously destroyed into something else that I'll eventually need.

How all of this will impact our ability to blow through 5 grades of rolls isn't clear yet. Not for you, me or Mr 1000 God roller. But, you'd have to be pretty focused on the negative to not concede that it's very likely to make mat collection easier than before, irrespective of your play style.

After all, if you are going to do engineering, you're going to have to spend time looking for mats. The biggest difference now is all that really easy to find stuff can actually be used to get rarer stuff.

The logistics and strategies for this are utterly unknown right now.

 

[Red Anders]

Less than 0.1% of players and damn near 100% of my direct competition.

With respect, I'm sure you realise all that does is explain why you care about it and I don't. I understand that it affects your gameplay, really I do but if you agree that my 0.1% estimate is either accurate or on the high side and you're even half as intelligent as I'd previously given you credit for, surely you'd agree that anything that less than 0.1% of players do in a game do isn't really a sensible benchmark to be using when implementing changes that affect everybody.

Considering that grandfathering is apparently going to be a thing, unless you think that the new G5 DDs will include all the potentially beneficial secondaries that you can roll today, I guess you're going to be spending a lot of time at Palin's lab over the next month though because if the new DD5s don't include the full set, you'll never be able to get them when this update goes live.

All of which goes to show that someone is going to be pretty much screwed whatever they ultimately do with engineering, the only question is who and how hard.

I'm the same as you. But I definitely found myself collecting a ton of mats that weren't related to what I was seeking at any given time. You pretty much have to go out of your way to not do this (particularly when mining with collectors) because the grade 1-3 stuff is very common. You don't really ever go looking for phosphorus, for example. You find it in abundance whilst looking for grade 4+ stuff.

Oh yeah, totally. Like you say I've never gone out specifically thinking 'wow I really must go and find some nickel' I do however think 'right, I'm going to go and pick up some engineering materials' - it's a task in itself for me, separate to virtually any organic gameplay that I might be engaging in. The fact that I will now be picking up a load of stuff that I will then need to use for 20+ low grade rolls before rolling however many G5s are needed to get through the incremental increases and max out still isn't really a bonus as such though because yes, now (current live game) I wouldn't be able to hang onto it all with the 1,000 materials cap but I don't give a crap now because I don't need to hang onto it anyway. It's solving a problem that, for me at least, only begins to exist when this update happens because the only stuff I actually need to collect in the game at the moment is grade 5 stuff.

As an example, someone was asking for help with picking up specialised legacy firmware in a thread I replied to last week. I've flushed about 40 of those since reading that post because I was picking up some other data and ended up with loads of them but I wasn't bothered about not being able to keep them because I don't need them for anything. So great, I 'd be able to keep them with the 100-per-item storage but it's only 'great' because there's been another change that means I'm going to end up using them. It's not really a net improvement.

It's like someone else said earlier, what the hell is the point of ranking with engineers to begin with now if I'm going to roll say six shield boosters for a Corvette and I have to do all of them through grades one to five? It's going to be tedious beyond belief. Of course at that point we're back to someone shouting 'SO IS ROLLING 875,000 GRADE FIVE MODS TO TRY TO GET TEH EPIC GODMOD' and me pointing out that although they're right, I simply don't do that so obviously I'm going to have a different opinion.

 

[Maka Gucci]

You are playing a game, you are entertaining yourself, you are PER definition, wasting your time, you are not doing anything productive when you play a game, you are entertaining yourself.

That is a ludicrous statement, every athlete disagrees with you and they aren't the only ones.
Gamblers, let's players, video game testers, not to mention the health and social benefits that come from people playing physical games. There are even articles on the cognitive benefits of playing video games: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201502/cognitive-benefits-playing-video-games

 

[Ydiss]

Oh yeah, totally. Like you say I've never gone out specifically thinking 'wow I really must go and find some nickel' I do however think 'right, I'm going to go and pick up some engineering materials' - it's a task in itself for me, separate to virtually any organic gameplay that I might be engaging in.

As it is for me.

I'm probably exactly the same as you. I only did mat hunting to specifically look for the mats I needed at that time. Your posts appear to suggest that this means I'll not have enough mats to hit the 100 limit (and therefore not be able to gain significantly from this new storage or the traders) but I think back to my experience of it and I feel it most definitely will have a positive impact on my ability to build up a healthy volume of storage across all grades.

In fact, the basic premise that I'll be able to theoretically look at the row of mats where that elusive g4 or g5 mat sits, then pick any of the much easier mats from g1 to g3 that require activities I don't mind so much, then hand those in to get what I want, is pretty exciting.

Potentially... Exactly how easy that'll be remains to be seen. But I definitely don't recall having issue with building up a ton of g1 to g2/3 items, and I never did mat hunting unless I needed to.

There are still far too many variables to be 100% certain the changes will increase the grind for me.

 

[Dbrn47]

That is a ludicrous statement, every athlete disagrees with you and they aren't the only ones.

I don't think that's what he meant by games.