New upgrade System - "Your time is valueable"- is a pure grind and waste of everyones time
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
55 is great!
I don't have anything that high.
It's human nature to see patterns where none exist.
The numbers we see on an individual level are probably insufficient to draw accurate conclusions in most cases.
Apparently a non-trivial portion of the community disagrees. I've floated the opinion that FSD's should be globally buffed something like 20% and got shot down by people who think number of loading screens between you and your destination is a legitimate gameplay factor, rather than a pointless annoyance.
Real people supposedly think the universe is RUINED if you have to whack the jump button 640 rather than 800 times to get from the bubble to Colonia. People like you and me that walk among us [where is it]
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Honestly I don't need any modules engineered right now, but I may get a Chieftain when it goes live, so I'm simply engineering the main modules I would want to engineer for that (FSD, thrusters, shield generator) to a G5 roll which I will then allow to drop down to top of G4 in the new system and then roll them to the max under the new. I too don't rely on or even look for god rolls, so I will end up with a decently modded basic ship. I'm not going to grind now to avoid grind later.
That said, having flown the Chieftain in beta, I was a bit underwhelmed...
The flight model was OK IMO, but the lack of general slots was a killer. I won't be buying one when it's released.
Just felt a bit underpowered to me, and I had engineered the thrusters to G5 DD! I didn't really have a specific role for it, so might still get one in live as I like small / medium ships. If I go back to beta I'll have another play around with it.
Just don't do it.
If you don't enjoy it stop participating.
If enough people followed that simple advice it would be noticed and addressed.
Dev 1: Hmm.. y'know, the amount of people using engineers has dropped off quite a bit.
Dev 2: Really? I hadn't noticed... Lets take a look at the numbers..
Dev 1: Yep, seems less people over all are using engineers on their new ships. XX%, crazy huh?
Dev 2: Maybe they don't like the system (old/new/whatever). We should maybe ask the players about it
That's my opinion on how it would go. None the less, even if it doesn't go that way, why would you bother spending time doing something you don't enjoy.
Stop using engineers if you don't like the system.
Stop buying DLC you don't have fun with.
Stop pre-ordering a Lexus and end up with a Honda.
Developers are in the business to create games they want people to enjoy so they can make money (it's called a job).
They are the producer, we are the consumer.
No need to be nasty, no need to be annoying. Just stop paying for things you don't want or enjoy. Either Company A will figure their stuff out and fix the issue or Company B will produce something you actually enjoy and you will take your time and money over there instead.
(Full disclosure: I hate Engineers and will not spend my time grinding regardless. I didn't do it in the old system, I won't do it in the new system. That's my choice, make up your own mind though please.)
If you don't enjoy it stop participating.
If enough people followed that simple advice it would be noticed and addressed.
Dev 1: Hmm.. y'know, the amount of people using engineers has dropped off quite a bit.
Dev 2: Really? I hadn't noticed... Lets take a look at the numbers..
Dev 1: Yep, seems less people over all are using engineers on their new ships. XX%, crazy huh?
Dev 2: Maybe they don't like the system (old/new/whatever). We should maybe ask the players about it
That's my opinion on how it would go. None the less, even if it doesn't go that way, why would you bother spending time doing something you don't enjoy.
Stop using engineers if you don't like the system.
Stop buying DLC you don't have fun with.
Stop pre-ordering a Lexus and end up with a Honda.
Developers are in the business to create games they want people to enjoy so they can make money (it's called a job).
They are the producer, we are the consumer.
No need to be nasty, no need to be annoying. Just stop paying for things you don't want or enjoy. Either Company A will figure their stuff out and fix the issue or Company B will produce something you actually enjoy and you will take your time and money over there instead.
(Full disclosure: I hate Engineers and will not spend my time grinding regardless. I didn't do it in the old system, I won't do it in the new system. That's my choice, make up your own mind though please.)
Mmm, I don't know if it will work this way. ED is not subscription based game. After they got your money, that it, they have it. Then all they need to do is just to keep people hooked *slightly* not to quit forever in droves by keeping just some minimal viable "carrot" here, so these players will buy some store cosmetics and future expansion packs (then devs will be - got your money again, and can again kick back).
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Damn straight.
But then the pathetic children around here would have nothing to whinge about if they just stopped playing and put themselves out of the misery they create for real gamers.
One problem - I like pew pews.
Effective pew pews are impossible without playing the engineer grind game - unless you get your rocks off by looking at the rebuy screen.
The ignore button is accessed from the username link. People paid non-trivial amounts of money for this game, they are both entitled to their opinion and to share it.
[haha] Another member of the frontier-can-do-no-wrong crowd, it seems?*plonk*
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No, you keep them. You just cant collect them until you go below the limit. Confirmed by fd before beta started.
He is talking about the limit, assuming you will lose everything over 100 in your luve account.which isnt the case.
I've not read the thread but my initial thoughts after only a couple of days with the Beta is that for the most part, I actually like it! I've had a few glitches, e.g. while on a planet (Wyrd 1 I think it was) my ship wouldn't land after a recall. Logging off and back on fixed it though. But nothing on the scale of the Galaxy map being bugged or Skynet.
Yes you have to rank up each module but given the material traders, it's not that much of a big deal. Spend an hour at Dav's Hope or one of the tankers that drops mats and you'll have everything you'll need. Just swop around at the trader what you are short of... (In the Beta, Dav's Hope is also giving data on every relog so you can get mats and data all in one place).
Data can also be gained on mass at distribution centres, again swop what you are short of. Btw, MEF can be swopped 9:1 for CIF... And MEF is a very common mission reward (or rather it was in 2.4, I need to confirm that that hasn't been nerfed).
Elements are another not overly difficult thing to obtain now either... Cough... Zirconium...
I have modded up a conda from scratch in two days in Beta 3.0 (about 10 hours playing time). Touting around the engineers normally would only add a couple of hours to this, instead of having it all done by The Dweller. This is to a better build than my 2.4 built combat conda that has just about every module exceeding the nominal max values (over maxed), I'm pleased to see that the new experimental effects offer the same over maxed advantages that are obtainable in 2.4. I've not done a direct head to head build comparison yet (I need to put the two builds [2.4 vs 3.0] into ED shipyard) but the numbers look good at first glance, relative to the module data I have in a spreadsheet of all my modded modules. A couple of my modules have better stats than their 3.0 equivalents, but most are an improvement I think at first glance.
I've not played with the Tech Trader yet, but at first glance, there is nothing listed that I want from them. Does better kit get unlocked / offered as you buy stuff from them? Similar to tech tree advancement in other games?
I've net spent much time shooting at ships, so can't comment on the C&P system yet.
TL,DR FDev have done a very fair conversation on the Engineers, most modules seem to be at the top end of good Over maxed values obtainable in 2.4. The material traders in 3.0 enable rapid collection of all the Mats needed for engineering. I fully modded a brand new combat conda in 2 days (about 10 hours playing time). Touting around the engineers normally would only add a couple of hours to this, instead of having it all done by The Dweller.
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If the three military slots were just normal slots everyone would be a lot happier! Why cripple the ship by making them military slots! Having only 5 normal bays makes the ship useless for exploration!
Yes I'm bloody annoyed at this totally pew pew driven game play perspective!
While I wholeheartedly agree on your sentiment, I think that's wishful thinking.
Given the general feeling over the beta Engineers System, the Design Team would be realising they got it wrong right now and it wouldn't even go live after Beta. Someone at FD with enough clout, should be looking at the feedback on these boards and telling them to back to the drawing board already, to get it sorted by the release after the coming.
If they pull the trigger on this "Engineers 3.0" it's a real indicator of where the problem lies.
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With remarks like this you sound more of a child than the children you are moaning about. Real gamers indeed prey tell what makes one a real gamer, Im 47 been gaming 40 years, do I pass the real gamer test or not as I do my fair share of FD bashing constructive and other wise.
If the three military slots were just normal slots everyone would be a lot happier! Why cripple the ship by making them military slots! Having only 5 normal bays makes the ship useless for exploration!
Yes I'm bloody annoyed at this totally pew pew driven game play perspective!
Well it is a combat ship. But I dont agree with fixed slots. If you are going to have fixed slots in ships. Where are the advanced and detailed scanner fixed slots?
It's a valid point, from a specific point of view.
The point being is that the original system is Tripple RNG plus the gated invite AND gated access to the engineering functionality.
by gated I mean their are gates that you can't get through until a task has been done.
| 2.0 : Horizons | 3.0 : Beyond | |
| Engineer Invite | Quest | Quest |
| Engineer Unlock | Progress bar Quest | Progress bar Quest |
| Materials | RNG material collection dependent on: bgs for ships types (i.e trading vessel during an outbreak), types of surface bases & rng for data packages rng for asteroid and surface materials based on material composition drop-rate (go see the discovery panel information) limited to roughly 12 units per material (meaning constant jettisoning common ore, to keep space for rares). | Same as before, but now 100 unit per material (so no jettisoning), planets are on the way to being able to visuall scanned from orbit (mining love will be comming Q2?) And Broker, so your commons can be traded for rares. Like I just traded in for several Cracked Industrial firmwares instead of crying for them on the forums. |
| Grades | Worked through once: 4-5 rolls per tier | Must be redone with every module: 3-5 rolls per tier. |
| Modules | numeras sliders, 2/3 good, the majority bad, every slider RNG. You could get 30 crap rolls in a row, or a godroll on your first try. Un-rewarding | NEGATIVE RNG removed, replaced by a singular fixed negative cost and each roll then has an accumlative positive outcome to your ship. |
| experimental effects | RNG rolled again that could probably postively impact your first roll. Or have no effect, or impact you negatively. effects were lost with every roll. They could be bought back but this would impact your build negatively. | Blueprints are bought and stay with your build |
| Location | Each roll needs to be performed at the engineer | Only the tier unlock (and blueprint pin) and experimental effects are the only reason you are returning to the engineer. |
So roling like 15-25 times to get the theoretical god roll (as of beta 2) and in significantly LESS TIME and effort since you can trade abundant materials for the rares,and you can literally unlock your grade 5 and fly out into the black and never look back and upgrade on the fly.
compared to 12-30 roles and a recive half-decent g5 upgrade and the exuberant amount of time it took to collect rarer materials in the later grades AND flying back out to the engineer EVERY time.
And the complain is, you are forced to roll AT LEAST 15 times, to get a near god-roll and it easy to collect the materials. This is the impentrable grind wall you fear?
Where as to date, you can jump in directly at G5 (after grinding to get there), and spend 20-30 rolls with premium rare material coasts, and still not get a god roll and it was super hard to collect the materials in the first place.
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