Modes [video] BGS & Power play in SOLO & PRIVATE

[CMDR Jet Black]

Trying to redefine PvP shows you have no counter.
And as you use PvP properly lower down, you blew your own failed argument.

PP is not and cannot be a PvP mechanic.



CQC has its own limited gear choices, so no they won't be using PP gear.

People can also fit weapons to a Type 7, doesn't make it a PvP ship.
So you can ignore that PP has a few selected items that some PvP'ers find useful and it does not make PP a PvP mechanic.



If everyone on your side is out doing PvP patrols, then no matter how many folks you stop, those in Solo / PG will win it for their side.
Doing PvP for PP slows your side down and you're not helping, you're hindering your own progress. You'd be more helpful and efficient hauling those PVE tokens about.



What risks? People keep complaining that Open is empty and that the game needs incentives to get folks back in to open.



Well it's you're own fault for not researching the game before buying it then.
Equal access to all of the game via all platforms in all modes was the plan from the start.

You wouldn't walk in to a car dealership, throw money at them and say give me a car - then moan if you get one you don't like, so why do it with PC gaming?



I refer you to the above.
Plus the game is also heavily instanced.
And you can block people from your instance with the in game block option.

Open only does not mean you get more people to shoot at. It just means more people have you on block.



Great idea, Solo players take the highest risk as they cannot get a Wing to help them like Open and PGs can.
And of course, putting PvP'ers on block removes all risk from Open, so perhaps a minus for Open mode, as they get Wings with no threats.




And if you're trying to improve PP, then your opinion here is flawed.
First step to improve PP is to stop module shopping by removing them and give people a reason to stick with a faction not jump from one to other constantly.

You go to great lengths to prove your point. Doesn't mean it's not flawed. You also contradict yourself on your own statements and make assumptions about my views without ever bothering to read them and understand them.

Do whatever you want to do with your responses and your opinion. You are still unable to accept other people's opinions, in my point of view, no matter how much you can twist others words to match your point of view.

I will just keep playing the game I like. When I don't I will leave. But then don't complain that your caustic attitude helps this game feel more and more solo, with only anti social gankers to populate your universe. You fail to be inclusive and that's not a good advertisement for a new player.

Don't bother answering. Unsubscribed from this thread and abandoning this forum for ever.

Welcome to the worst part of Elite Dangerous I guess. Should have known.

 

[Mouse]

Some names change, While others stay the same. AMIRITE BOYS!

This wont happen forever.

The hotel is burning. Right before your eyes.

The same people do their best to fight against it for years and years saying it cant be done. Even though Sandro has expressed that they could do it. And are very capable of doing so.

Its quite simple really. They want people to play ALL of the game. Not just some of this because its convenient for them.

The veterans in this game that actually take part in this stuff know the game and know it well. They arent opting out of PVP because they dont want to PVP. They are Opting out of it because its not beneficial to do so.

Defenses for Open = less impact and time do to those ship builds.

Private and solo you can min max against NPC's and not the group of people you are Trading/Hauling/Killing cops against. And no need for Engineering except for an FSD.

No Grom missiles, not Hull Reinforcement packages none of that. Just +++ missions.

Again, we've all seen those posts about those naked cutters getting Powerplant sniped. Thats an end game ship. And they were min maxing for a CG. You guys really think people that know every single turn in this game is not taking advantage of these modes against the other people they are at "war" with. You got another thing coming.

The game people bought and the game we have NOW are two different things. And its time to adjust the rules around those FACTS.

Deny it, post walls of text. Do whatever you guys want. It cant and wont be stopped.

You keep talking about your opinions as facts...

 

[Mouse]

You go to great lengths to prove your point. Doesn't mean it's not flawed. You also contradict yourself on your own statements and make assumptions about my views without ever bothering to read them and understand them.

Do whatever you want to do with your responses and your opinion. You are still unable to accept other people's opinions, in my point of view, no matter how much you can twist others words to match your point of view.

I will just keep playing the game I like. When I don't I will leave. But then don't complain that your caustic attitude helps this game feel more and more solo, with only anti social gankers to populate your universe. You fail to be inclusive and that's not a good advertisement for a new player.

Don't bother answering. Unsubscribed from this thread and abandoning this forum for ever.

Welcome to the worst part of Elite Dangerous I guess. Should have known.

Try to redefine PVP after being called out on an incorrect assumption then when countered again you unsubscribe calling this the "worst part of Elite Dangerous". No... the worst part of Elite Dangerous are people like you who, as you wanted to do in your first post, make things open only.. and called it a "compromise"..

 

[jasonbarron]

Try to redefine PVP after being called out on an incorrect assumption then when countered again you unsubscribe calling this the "worst part of Elite Dangerous". No... the worst part of Elite Dangerous are people like you who, as you wanted to do in your first post, make things open only.. and called it a "compromise"..

Solo and PG effecting the same bgs as open are a compromise in every sense of the word.

 

[Jockey79]

You go to great lengths to prove your point. Doesn't mean it's not flawed.

Calling something a PvP mechanic, when you can do 100% of it in Solo shows it cannot be a PvP mechanic so your point is flawed.

Then trying to dishonestly redefine what PvP actually means to prove your point, shows you didn't come here to debate anything.
As you cannot root a debate in dishonestly redefining something to try and win.

You also contradict yourself on your own statements and make assumptions about my views without ever bothering to read them and understand them.

What I'm supposed to have said that is contradictory?
There is a lack of quote/ proof - so please supply where I've done that.

What assumptions did I make?
As my response is based solely on what information you've provided.

You are still unable to accept other people's opinions, in my point of view, no matter how much you can twist others words to match your point of view.

I take on board any HONEST points made.
And I'm not the twisting anything - I didn't redefine something to make a point.

But then don't complain that your caustic attitude didn't make you any friends, here and irl.

lol.
"Caustic attitude" because I didn't swallow your "Power Versus Power" rubbish.... okay then.

Don't bother answering. Unsubscribed from this thread and abandoning this forum for ever.

Welcome to the worst part of Elite Dangerous I guess. Should have known.

The "worst" part is when people come here, dishonestly try to prove a point then throw a tantrum when they get pulled up on it.

Something you can do 100% on your own, cannot be a direct Player Versus Player mechanic.... it requires at least 2 players.
And doing 100% of it in Solo means it's Player Versus..... no one.

It can be used as a reason to PvP between consenting players, but that is optional.
PP is a PvE token pushing game, nothing more.

 

[Jockey79]

Solo and PG effecting the same bgs as open are a compromise in every sense of the word.

What about XB1 and PS4 effecting the same BGS, that a "compromise" as well?

 

[Mouse]

Solo and PG effecting the same bgs as open are a compromise in every sense of the word.

Solo and PG effect the BGS right now the same as open... so there IS no compromise.. look at both his statements.

"1st cent: PP influenced by open only. PP is clearly a PvP mechanic. So Open only.
2nd cent: Solo and Private commerce BGS influence galaxy. Not the faction thingie."

Then his second post...

"Or maybe a compromise then.

Solo and Private Group influence is smaller than Open Play influence. Like 25% so people need to do more legwork to really influence the galaxy, without taking any risks."

Where is the compromise in any of this... in all of it stuff is removed from Solo and PGs and either limited to Open or Open influences more. There is no compromise in ANY sense of the word here so how can you claim a compromise?

 

[jasonbarron]

A compromise to fairness, absolutely.

 

[Mouse]

A compromise to fairness, absolutely.

Oh come on...you are going to try that line? A compromise to fairness would be people needing the permission from their targets to attack them. That would be a compromise to fairness.. no more massivly engineered ships taking on ships that are unarmed. If you want to fight.. do it duel system..

 

[Agony_Aunt]

First step to improve PP is to stop module shopping by removing them and give people a reason to stick with a faction not jump from one to other constantly.

I wish FD had done it like in Frontier with regards to superpowers. You choose who to work for and stick with it.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You keep talking about your opinions as facts...

Hardly. Math cannot be used as an opinion.

3 size 6 slots used for defenses opens up 96 passengers for +++ influence in solo and private. Or I could use that same build in open and risk getting blown up vs my opponents in seconds because of premium and special effect weapons.(pythons in colonia are the META ship to do this in.)

You guys have seen all the posts about "OMG MUH DEFENSELESS SHIPS".

There are builds for open and builds for solo.

Builds for solo are stripped down just the same as open ships are built up and maxed out. More Cr/H, More +++ per hour, and so on.

Ive seen people combat log in solo and private while doing this by the way. They got caught by an NPC while BGSing in their system. They just logged out, cant even be reported.(streamers)

The difference between you and I is this.

I post video Evidence, Math, Screenshots and more proving the need for change. Ya'll are stuck on how the game is now. We are all well aware how the game is now. And games like ELITE WILL ALWAYS CHANGE.

One of the big reasons Elite will change is because of the general populations progression within the game. As people get more time and reach their goals, they start spreading out to other parts of the game they never knew existed. Thats why there is a steady group of people over time showing the problems within the modes.

How long was the Hotel California thread extended? And why was this part of the sub forum created if they wernt ever going to do anything about it?

Why does almost every thread end up leading back this one question when PVP or griefing is brought up. LOOOOOOOOOOONG BEFORE I GOT HERE!.

Yo pay attention to their streams, Pay attention to the things they are doing in the game RIGHT NOW. NONE of the changes stem from Private and Solo. 75% of Beyond changes are because of the actions in OPEN play OR in private and solo where people directly effect others(THANK YOU ATR's).

Ive said it before and I will say it again. This whole game is based on the actions of other players. In each system there are +++ missions. In each system there are cops. Each ship has modules, and speed and turning power. Each weapon has a cause and effect. Things like wake scanners, grom missiles and so on.

Powerplay and BGS player factions. The list goes on and on.

If anybody is going against what Fdev wants. Its you guys fighting against it.

Thats why he says "thats a bit of a hand gernade" every-time it shows up. But what he didnt see and Ive made sure to point out. Is its the same 5-7 people showing up anywhere and everywhere this topic is brought up.

While there are thousands else where that want changes made to this. But they want a level playing field first. And guess what we just got in 3.0.

Hot DANG! I love being right. WOOO

 

[Arkadi]

Just adding some dramatic music:

[video=youtube;WAGAoy5WZWY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAGAoy5WZWY[/video]

And I want it too: Powerplay in open! The way it is meant to be played!

 

[Robert Maynard]

A compromise to fairness, absolutely.

Every single player affecting the single shared galaxy state is the basis on which every single player backed or bought the game, the way that Frontier designed it and is entirely fair (unless one chooses to seek to directly oppose all opposition to one's aims).

What's not fair is when players who prefer a particular, completely optional, play-style (that the game offers but does not in any way require players to participate in) demand that those that don't share their play-style preference lose some or all of their ability to affect the aforementioned single shared galaxy state.

 

[Darkfyre99]

https://youtu.be/Y48U_JXYMLk

After reading them threads where people complain about BGS & that doing things for it in solo is cheating : it sparked an idea for this!
Now to note once more : doing BGS or power play in solo or private IS NOT CHEATING and if you think it is : well you are wrong!
Still do I think that BGS & Power play influence be reserved ONLY for open.. Yes.

Here's the problem with that thought:

The way the game is designed, you won't encounter the vast majority of the player base even if everyone was forced into open. This includes the ability to "oppose" BGS and Powerplay activities:

• If you play on a single platform, you won't encounter anyone on another platform, ever. So if you're a PS4 group, and you're being attacked by a XBox or PC group, nothing you try to do, PvP wise, will ever be effective.
• There are 168 hours a day. The average player puts in about 8 hours a week. So about 95% of the time, any activity will be unopposed by you So if you're a French group that plays during prime time, and you're being attacked by a local group who work 3rd shift, nothing you try to do PvP wise will ever be effective, unless you're prepared to quit your job so you can play at that time.
• The matchmaker emphasizes connection quality and grouping friends together. If you're a US group that is being attacked by an Australian group, nothing you try to do PvP wise will ever be effective, unless you can convince that Australian group to add you to their friends list. Good luck with that.
• Speaking of friends lists, the matchmaker works more like a social filter, as opposed to a PvP one. Even players in Open can reasonably expect that if their friends lists are full, and their friends are playing at the same time, then they'll only see friends, not the opposition. If your group is being attacked by another organized group, you're far more likely to see your friends than the opposition, as the matchmaker tries to keep both groups together in the same instance. This is doubly true if either group decides to add the other to their block list.
• Any time spent "opposing" other players from influencing your chosen faction is time you're not spending on helping your faction. Even if you managed to kill five other players during your game session, the chances are that during the same period of time, each of them completed nine other tasks. So instead of completing ten tasks yourself, you prevented five from happening.
• Last, but certainly not least, the chances are very good that those five players you killed had nothing to do with the group that's opposing you. Very likely, they were just in the system for reasons completely unrelated to hurting your chosen faction. If you've been doing your BGS work well, then its equally likely that those players were performing tasks that would help your faction. So not only did you complete zero tasks yourself, but you've prevented tasks for your faction from completing on top of that. Not to mention that you've managed to move your faction one step closer to lockdown, which isn't a faction state you want to be in, since it makes BGS work even harder. And for the icing on the cake, you may have driven off five other players who would've normally helped your faction, even though they weren't part of your group. Good job. [up]

All of the reasons I listed above is why I consider the cry "BGS work should be Open Only" to less a genuine attempt to improve BGS play, and more of casus belli used by players who want to shoot players who don't enjoy PvP, because they can't kill the players who do.

As for Powerplay, all but the last item I listed also apply. Since everyone involved has to sign up for a Power to participate, there are no uninvolved parties you can court to help your own side. I just personally consider that making Powerplay Open Only would be the final nail in its coffin. All the Powerplayers who enjoy PvP already fly in Open. Which means that the rest of Powerplay's player base are in solo and private groups. Forcing those players to play in Open isn't likely to get more players in Open. It'll just cause them to quit entirely, especially the transportation base.

 

[Mouse]

Hardly. Math cannot be used as an opinion.

3 size 6 slots used for defenses opens up 96 passengers for +++ influence in solo and private. Or I could use that same build in open and risk getting blown up vs my opponents in seconds because of premium and special effect weapons.(pythons in colonia are the META ship to do this in.)

You guys have seen all the posts about "OMG MUH DEFENSELESS SHIPS".

There are builds for open and builds for solo.

Builds for solo are stripped down just the same as open ships are built up and maxed out. More Cr/H, More +++ per hour, and so on.

Ive seen people combat log in solo and private while doing this by the way. They got caught by an NPC while BGSing in their system. They just logged out, cant even be reported.(streamers)

The difference between you and I is this.

I post video Evidence, Math, Screenshots and more proving the need for change. Ya'll are stuck on how the game is now. We are all well aware how the game is now. And games like ELITE WILL ALWAYS CHANGE.

One of the big reasons Elite will change is because of the general populations progression within the game. As people get more time and reach their goals, they start spreading out to other parts of the game they never knew existed. Thats why there is a steady group of people over time showing the problems within the modes.

How long was the Hotel California thread extended? And why was this part of the sub forum created if they wernt ever going to do anything about it?

Why does almost every thread end up leading back this one question when PVP or griefing is brought up. LOOOOOOOOOOONG BEFORE I GOT HERE!.

Yo pay attention to their streams, Pay attention to the things they are doing in the game RIGHT NOW. NONE of the changes stem from Private and Solo. 75% of Beyond changes are because of the actions in OPEN play OR in private and solo where people directly effect others(THANK YOU ATR's).

Ive said it before and I will say it again. This whole game is based on the actions of other players. In each system there are +++ missions. In each system there are cops. Each ship has modules, and speed and turning power. Each weapon has a cause and effect. Things like wake scanners, grom missiles and so on.

Powerplay and BGS player factions. The list goes on and on.

If anybody is going against what Fdev wants. Its you guys fighting against it.

Thats why he says "thats a bit of a hand gernade" every-time it shows up. But what he didnt see and Ive made sure to point out. Is its the same 5-7 people showing up anywhere and everywhere this topic is brought up.

While there are thousands else where that want changes made to this. But they want a level playing field first. And guess what we just got in 3.0.

Hot DANG! I love being right. WOOO

You love thinking your right.. because the basis of your whole argument is opinion and has no proof to back it up... YOU keep saying that there is a problem with the modes and the game changes exposes "more problems with the modes". Yet that linchpin of your argument falls flat. Would it be great to have a PVE version of Open? Yes, but that is not a problem.. This game has chugged on and the only problem that has been encountered is those that continue to bully others suddenly find them playing other modes and want to complain about the other modes being "unfair". They never have been unfair and never will be. FDev gave everyone the same mountain to climb and gave them 3 ways to do it.. you chose a way and then want to argue that the modes are a problem. Sorry.. they are not the problem.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If one's only defense against a determined BGS opponent is the Federal Assault Ship they spent 1500 hours engineering, then they're a terrible BGS player and deserve everything that happens to them through the BGS.

Well said.

One can spend all their time all their time grinding away at influence for their chosen faction, or one can influence the BGS for fun and profit, so that other players will naturally want to help your chosen faction, and avoid helping the other factions.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Unless something has changed, the effect is only to the threshold of undermining/fortifying. I personally wouldn't call that "strongly affected", but I don't PP anymore. You'd have to poll PP folks to really get a good opinion on it.

My reference to Dav is from one of the BGS live stream interview Q&A with ED thingys. I think it was last year, early, but it could have been in 2016.

I would call a potential 75% reduction (IIRC) in the amount of fortifying you need to do a "strong effect." Its one of the main reasons why I help my chosen power by manipulating the BGS system for fun and profit, as opposed to actually pledging and doing ABA cargo runs or combat farming. I enjoy the variety of tasks that running missions brings, while I don't enjoy ABA cargo runs, and I loath farming. Give me powerplay missions with which to undermine and fortify, then I will repledge in a heartbeat.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Hardly. Math cannot be used as an opinion.

3 size 6 slots used for defenses opens up 96 passengers for +++ influence in solo and private. Or I could use that same build in open and risk getting blown up vs my opponents in seconds because of premium and special effect weapons.(pythons in colonia are the META ship to do this in.)

You guys have seen all the posts about "OMG MUH DEFENSELESS SHIPS".

There are builds for open and builds for solo.

No offense m8, but I've been flying in Shieldless tin-can Configs in Open and I've been flying in massive Tanks in PG modes just as well.
I've survived in Shieldless builds in Open and have been blown up by NPCs in a Tank in Open just as well.

There's only different builds : risky builds and less risky builds. Regardless of mode. Your choice. If you're good (or lucky), you'll likely survive - if you screw up, you can lose your Ship. In any mode.

PS.
All I'm ever seeing is "OMG MUH DEFENSELESS FACTION IS BEING OVERRUN BY {not_my_game_mode} PLAYERS 11!!1".

My response : do something about it!
Flying circles in SuperCruise in a fully decked out Combat Ship in Open Play on your Platform is not an intelligent way to be successful in the BGS.
By now, one would think a 7 year old should be able to understand that. Game is PEGI-7.

BGS simply doesn't mean sticking your Cutter into the Station entry and expecting a 100.0% control rate over every single Player ship that docks there. That whole idea is ridiculous. It's just not how it works *lol*
Simple Reason : The game and its mechanics do not revolve around you and/or your Platform and/or your Game mode used! Learn it. Memorize it. Understand it. Act accordingly.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

If it were to happen, i could see some people's block lists becoming rather massive

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

If it were to happen, i could see some people's block lists becoming rather massive

Honestly block lists should only be Comms only. There are other modes you can go to if you are looking for personal progression. The options are already there for that.