I think that the guardian weapons in general are far too weak, especially in general combat.

As a rule of thumb, damage from guardian weapons should be easily superior to their normal counterparts in both AX and normal combat in order to make the whole process of getting them actually worth it.

The chargers are particularly bad as they barely do half their stated damage, have very severe falloff and have a charge up time to boot. One of the most basic changes that need to be made would be bumping up the armour piercing value of the Chargers to 100 or above (they should at least be better than Plasma Accelerators).

The gauss cannons also suffer from a lack of minor aim assist (which railguns have), terrible range and falloff, and damage that is far below it's stated values.
 
Definitely agree on this. The power plant felt worth the grind. I can basically buy something roughly equivalent to a G4 modded plant. Can I build better with engineering? Sure, but it's better than stock in every scenario. The guns however feel super weak. The Plasma doesn't have a good gun to compare to but for the time spent grinding out Gauss cannons I could have engineered railguns, which are more effective (slight aim assist, better falloff and range, more damage) than Gauss before you do any engineering at all. Putting on Guardian weapons (powerplant is still good for every scenario) gimps you against everything but Thargoid encounters. Even the AX Multicannons seem much more useful against NPC's. By the actual definition of what a gauss gun is compared to a rail gun, gauss is a higher projectile velocity than rails in the first place, so if anything it should have better range. This is space, the projectiles aren't being slowed down by something in a vacuum.
 
Fighting Thargoids, I like the Gauss. Against anything else... well, I would rather have railguns.

I can't speak for the other Guardian stuff though, haven't unlocked them yet.
 
if they would be better no one would go and aquire the other stuff, balanc eis again a huge issues, i don't really know why we hadto get "guardian" stuff. it doesn't feels like it serves an own purpose at all except granting a specific amount fo players a new grind based content.
 
Wow I disagree they should be semi-OP, that is just going to force everyone to grind it. They should be competitive for sure, though.
 
They cut through Cyclopes like butter, how are they far too weak? They are far better than AX weapons against humanity ships and hold their own against Thargoids. That seems like win win rather than far too weak.

Why should they be the superior option in all occasions?
 
They cut through Cyclopes like butter, how are they far too weak? They are far better than AX weapons against humanity ships and hold their own against Thargoids. That seems like win win rather than far too weak.

Why should they be the superior option in all occasions?

i doubt OP did test them at Thargz, all i read is "i want a super gun"
 
Give me a reason to fight thargoids in the first place.

The only useful thing is a gauss cannon, really, for those that don't like the AX Multicannon to snipe the hearts. For everything else, the guardian weapons look insanely powerful but are less powerful than regular weaponary.
Stack AX Multicannons until you are not allowed to mount more AX weaponary and add more guardian tech to overcome the limit.

The guardian weapons really just exist so we can overcome this limit.
 
Guardian weapons should be roughly on par with where the powerplant is right now: basically the equivalent to G4 engineering, but with a bit better heat/mass/integrity stats than G4. This makes them a trade-off in many circumstances, keeps them viable in PvP but not as effective as G5 weapons, and fixes their current problems. Especially considering we can put something like G4 Plasma Accelerators on a ship, but can't get anything above a G2 Guardian weapon.

That being said the damage falloff of Gauss Guns and Plasma Accelerators is ridiculous. That needs to be fixed no matter what.
 
Well looking at what you have to do to get the two Guardian weapons they should be quite powerfull imho.
Having to run the Guardian Structure twelve times for "not so special except the lightshow of the plasmas weapons" isn't realy as attractive as it could be.

Not OP though, there's already enough imbalance in the game.
 
Plasma Chargers are great against shields. My ICourier was regularly dropping shields on Pythons (NPC) and Federal Drop Ship (human pilot).
They don't fare so well against armour.
If the Guardian weapons were specced as anti shield weapons I think they'd be a solid answer to OP shields.
 
Guardian Plasma - AFAIK: Damage scales according to charge time, circumvents all current damage resistance measures but also hampered by not gaining from damage type vulnerabilities. Medium energy damage weapons of similar damage levels will be more effective against shields (assuming nominal stock energy damage resistance/vulnerability for shields) and similarly medium hull damage weapons of similar damage levels will be more effective against hulls (assuming nominal stock hull damage resistance/vulnerabilities).

Net Effect - Guardian Plasma weapons appear to be primarily intended to effectively side step the "god build" resistance factors and will do a consistent level of damage to shields and hull regardless of build factors of the target. This possibly has more utility in a PvP setting but apparently this weapon also is capable of damaging Thargoids so perhaps also has comparable utility in the PvE case too.

S, L, and H versions of this weapon would be desirable even if we are limited to just fitting 4 of them. I can see this weapon being a perfect fit for the likes of the Imperial Courier which exclusively has Medium slots.

Not unlocked the guardian plasma weapon yet myself, but the above means that the Guardian Plasma may effectively be OP in some circumstances as it currently stands - especially if we get to engineer them.
 
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They don't need a buff. They shouldn't exist in the first place. We have enough unbalanced weapons as is... no need for more. If they are meant to be anti goid weapons then fine but apart from that please no.
 
They don't need a buff. They shouldn't exist in the first place. We have enough unbalanced weapons as is... no need for more. If they are meant to be anti goid weapons then fine but apart from that please no.
I disagree with the need for them to exist, but agree they probably should not be subject to a stock buff. Their PvE existence is justified by the lore - their PvP existence is justified by the prevalence of certain metas.

As for "unbalanced weapons", I do not believe any of them are unbalanced as such. It is nice to see FD are finally catering to those that prefer gimballed main weapons though.
 
EDShipyard claims that the damage of the guardian weapons is split 50/50:

50% Absolute and 50% Anti-Xeno for the Plasma Charger and 50% Thermal and 50% Anti-Xeno for the Gauss Cannon.

Through testing, I and several others have determined the Plasma Charger and the Gauss Cannon to be severely underperforming with the expectations of damage provided by the in-game stats. The damage numbers produced by tests are seeming to be about half of what they should be doing. This leads me to believe that the Anti-Xeno damage type does no or very little damage to human shields and hull.

This table compares the effective damages of the guardian weapons and their human analogues without engineering. The numbers do not account for damage falloff or other damage type resistances.

WeaponEffective Damage to Human Ships
2B Guardian Gauss Cannon35 (Thermal)
2B Railgun41.53 (67% Thermal, 33% Kinetic)
2B Guardian Plasma Charger42.5 (Absolute)
2C Plasma Accelerator54.3 (60% Absolute, 20% Thermal, 20% Kinetic)

This makes it very clear why many are reporting damage that is worse than the standard weapons.

For the amount of sheer heat generation and power draw that is present on the Guardian Gauss Cannon, I would expect to do more than 35 damage to human ships. For anti-thargoid roles, this weapon is excellently done, but for human combat, it could use a bit of an increase in thermal damage. This wouldn't affect thargoid combat at all, since they are immune to all types except for Anti-Xeno. My suggestion is to buff the thermal damage portion up to about 1.1-1.2x the total damage of the standard 2B Railgun. It would provide a small damage bonus at the cost of the ridiculous thermal load and power draw, in addition to not being engineerable at the current time.

With the Guardian Plasma Charger, the problem is not so much in that it lacks damage to human vessels but that it lacks damage in general. Even against thargoids, this weapon underperforms. It not only doesn't do much damage to hearts, but it also does less damage to the hull of the thargoid than the Guardian Gauss Cannons do. What then, is the point of using it? Answer: currently, there is no point in using it over the Gauss Cannon. Moving on to humans, the standard Plasma Accelerator gains ~8 damage (a 27.7% increase) against human vessels. This is counterbalanced by the increased max fire rate, so that's fine. But, that's when damage falloff comes in to save the day. It is 1000m on the Guardian Plasma Charger, but 2000m on the standard. That is huge. It means you have to be right up in someones grill to get... what? Less damage than a Plasma Accelerator? It also has the charge mechanic, which is a fancy way of saying that you need to wait 1.8 seconds after pulling the trigger for your shot to fire. Sure, you can get used to it, but if you're not already charged up, that means your reaction time starts at 1.8 seconds. Maybe this wouldn't be such a problem if keeping it charged didn't require holding down a trigger or button for an indeterminate amount of time while being aurally assaulted by the demonic shrieks that can only be described by dragging a screaming cat's nails down a chalkboard. My suggestion, after the sound is changed or the volume lowered, is to increase the charge multiplier to 25x from 17x, adjust the damage proportions to 40% Absolute and 60% Anti-Xeno, and increase the falloff start distance to 2000m to match the standard Accelerators. This would not only ensure that the thargoids take more hull damage from Plasma Chargers, but also ensure that the Plasma Charger is on a level that can compete with the Plasma Accelerator in the area of human ship combat. Its new damage to humans would be 50, lower than the standard plasma accelerator, but with the increased fire rate, have a slightly higher DPS. I would consider this balanced due to the inability to be engineered, as well as the greatly increased power draw.

Disclaimer: This is just my two cents. I don't expect the staff to take my suggestions into account or even view this post at all (but I would greatly appreciate it if they did). Like I said, all of the numerical data is from EDShipyard and confirmed through many tests done by many people. I apologize if any of it is incorrect and would welcome any corrections that people would be willing to make (to the numbers).
 
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