Community guests at FD HQ on 27th for Q4 news

Kaltern

Kaltern
Alec Turner said:
I did see some new colours ... I'm not saying where tho!

You know what guys, I seriously need to sleep now. My main takeaway from today is that Frontier are not the bad guys (I knew this already but it's nice to be reminded). They're a large, passionate and commited team of people who are genuinely trying to do right by this game to the best of their ability. They're talented good good people, not infallible, just human. They read what we write, constantly strive to be better and you know what ... if I was 20 years younger and not already working in a job I love, would probably have received my CV by now. On balance ... I reckon' the reaction to Q4 will be Mr Kipling. ;)


I think my comment about sending them my CV (which was deeply genuine by the way) says it all.

Goodnight!
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I feel the need to make one further comment on this. For the record, I have nothing but admiration for all the developers at Frontier, their work and obvious commitment to the company is clear to see. My only beef - if that's the right word - is with top management, who have sadly gone the same way as pretty much every other development house who have 'upgraded' to self-publisher, and adjusted their target audience to 'where the money is'.

I can't even really criticise for that, because all companies want to make money, and keeping ED PC only would clearly have caused premature termination. My criticism is the way that these events are designed to bring in free advertising in return for extra revenue for streamers - but without really delivering what is hinted at. And I absolutely suspect that has nothing to do with the vast majority of Frontier staff, and that is such a shame, because no matter how wonderful things look to those invited to see 'behind the scenes', the end result has always been disappointing and empty. (In mine, and the many people who tend to rep me's opinion).

Could 3.3 be the time for Frontier to buck their own trend and prove me completely wrong? I really hope so. But.. fool me once...
 

Micha

Micha
Hi Alec (or anybody else who attended),

There was some concern raised during the livestream about VR support for the new screens, to which Will answered that he had not personally tested the new mechanisms in VR.

Were the new mechanics demonstrated in VR and/or was it mentioned that VR support was being actively looked into for these?

In general, what was your impression of how actively the DevTeam uses/tests new features or content in VR for Elite Dangerous?

Thanks!
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Alec Turner said:
Tada! First properly good question.

I thought the proposed changes represented Frontier's valid response to a constant criticism from the exploration community about lacking gameplay in exploration (see also my comments on last weeks Guard Frequency). I also said "be careful what you wish for because you just migh t get it". I had my reservations tho. I've read lots of suggestions for solutions to the "keep the old behaviour but also keep the new behaviour" issue. Frontier have come up with something which I think is a very simple and elegant "solution" (I quote that last word because it won't satisfy everyone but I do think it's very simple and very neat).
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Sounds they borked their own design because of loud minority. Fine, I won't go exploring then.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Mole HD said:
Might not be that bad...always has to be some sort of compromise in the end due to the multiplayer nonsense. ;)
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Judging from Alec it is not really a compromise but something of olive branch. First, what's the point, people won't accept it anyway, second, I really doubt they can do it without breaking their concept a little.

FD sometimes need to stick with their guns.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
Cmdr Eagleboy said:
Judging from Alec it is not really a compromise but something of olive branch. First, what's the point, people won't accept it anyway, second, I really doubt they can do it without breaking their concept a little.

FD sometimes need to stick with their guns.
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I'd agree with that...but that's not been their form so far. My opinion on the ADS thing is that I wish it had been the way the new design proposal outlined from the beginning...or that they had decided against the ADS mechanic altogether and found another mechanic that lent a little more to discovery and exploration.

All that is history of course, so now we're left with the choices between the existing overpowered and pointless 'everything' scanner and something more akin to the nature of discovery way too late in the day to be overwhelmingly attractive.

I'm not an explorer per se, I did start out that way but the emptiness of the galaxy just left me disappointed...so I'm looking forward to a mechanic that might lead my attention back to it.

Used with the new mining mechanics, a resurgent career in deep space mining for me...if it all works out :)
 
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Kaocraft

Kaocraft
Lightspeed said:
If true, that could only be seen as a good thing.
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Not really. The game should never cater to youtubers and twitch streamers. It's meant to be played not watched. There's been too much of that already. That's partially why the story content is all completely undocumented Easter eggs- you have to see it on YouTube or read about it online first because it's not tied into the regular game flow whatsoever.

I'm not at all interested in Frontier building an exploration system around the preferences of someone who spends all his time making video montages out of the game. There are plenty of positive changes which could be made, which might be detrimental to what twitch streamers and youtubers want.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
Kaocraft said:
Not really. The game should never cater to youtubers and twitch streamers. It's meant to be played not watched. There's been too much of that already. That's partially why the story content is all completely undocumented Easter eggs- you have to see it on YouTube or read about it online first because it's not tied into the regular game flow whatsoever.

I'm not at all interested in Frontier building an exploration system around the preferences of someone who spends all his time making video montages out of the game. There are plenty of positive changes which could be made, which might be detrimental to what twitch streamers and youtubers want.
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[yesnod] +1

/5char
 

Alec Turner

Alec Turner
Mengy said:
I take it this is regarding the honk only showing the main star? The community has generally agreed upon some semblance of a compromise (between the live honk and 3.3 honk) being a satisfactory solution, yet you make it sound like Frontier has decided to do something entirely different? This worries me greatly, as I'm not convinced Frontier understands the reasons for the uproar in the first place. Hopefully their elegant solution addresses the real problem for actual exploration.... :(

I suppose what I would really like to know is this: Why can't we all know what elegant solution Frontier has come up with? Why must it be kept secret? o_O
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You know what, when the nda was being explained at the beginning I explicitly asked "if, by any chance, you've tweaked the "honk" thing somehow (yes, what you describe is what we're talking about here by the way), can I say that you have?" ... and the answer was yes ... but I'm not allowed to talk specifics so I need to be careful here. What I will say is fear not, I reckon they do understand the reasons for the uproar (which are fairly plain to see after all) and the solution I speak of does provide a compromise between the old and new systems.

Why can't you all know the elegant solution? Not 100% sure. No specific reason I think, just generally I guess they've had one round of feedback, they've taken some stuff on board and are now working hard to finish this release and get it ready for beta and kinda want to do so without further distraction. I also think there's a really nice holistic feel to Q4, a lot of stuff really seems to come together and it'll be better if you can see it all rather than focusing on this one part in isolation. The beta will be coming soon enough (no, I have no idea of actual dates) plus some deep dive livestreams too. I will say another thing which is that, it's one thing to see stuff like the new ADS interface as a static screenshot, but when you see it in action, with animation and movement and (once again) some stunning audio work ... well ... it's really good! [yesnod]
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
picommander said:
What makes you think so? Is it the words "simple and elegant"? These are usually signs of truly ingenious solutions. While "won't satisfy everyone" (if it was that).. c'mon now. Anything else, like "would make everyone happy", would fill me with sheer horror, because totally unreal and crappy advertising speech. Or just because they didn't follow Mengy's proposal? But what else could it possibly be that triggers your concerns? Just curious...
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I personally think that tweaking it was mistake before beta. So no compromises at all. Do as you have it and then later sort it out.

I just don't see any compromise that waters down original proposal being good. We already have enough compromises in this game. There are people who will be NEVER satisfied with ED design, and FD have just to accept that.

Alec Turner said:
You know what, when the nda was being explained at the beginning I explicitly asked "if, by any chance, you've tweaked the "honk" thing somehow (yes, what you describe is what we're talking about here by the way), can I say that you have?" ... and the answer was yes ... but I'm not allowed to talk specifics so I need to be careful here. What I will say is fear not, I reckon they do understand the reasons for the uproar (which are fairly plain to see after all) and the solution I speak of does provide a compromise between the old and new systems.

Why can't you all know the elegant solution? Not 100% sure. No specific reason I think, just generally I guess they've had one round of feedback, they've taken some stuff on board and are now working hard to finish this release and get it ready for beta and kinda want to do so without further distraction. I also think there's a really nice holistic feel to Q4, a lot of stuff really seems to come together and it'll be better if you can see it all rather than focusing on this one part in isolation. The beta will be coming soon enough (no, I have no idea of actual dates) plus some deep dive livestreams too. I will say another thing which is that, it's one thing to see stuff like the new ADS interface as a static screenshot, but when you see it in action, with animation and movement and (once again) some stunning audio work ... well ... it's really good! [yesnod]
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Well, what's the point of changing it then before anybody has seen it? That's the hole point - we haven't. We have seen crystal ball claims how grindy and empty it all will be and give my marble collection gameplay back.

Gutted. FD should really do not publish these proposals if they aren't ready to stand by them.
 

Alec Turner

Alec Turner
Kaltern said:
I feel the need to make one further comment on this. For the record, I have nothing but admiration for all the developers at Frontier, their work and obvious commitment to the company is clear to see. My only beef - if that's the right word - is with top management, who have sadly gone the same way as pretty much every other development house who have 'upgraded' to self-publisher, and adjusted their target audience to 'where the money is'.

I can't even really criticise for that, because all companies want to make money, and keeping ED PC only would clearly have caused premature termination. My criticism is the way that these events are designed to bring in free advertising in return for extra revenue for streamers - but without really delivering what is hinted at. And I absolutely suspect that has nothing to do with the vast majority of Frontier staff, and that is such a shame, because no matter how wonderful things look to those invited to see 'behind the scenes', the end result has always been disappointing and empty. (In mine, and the many people who tend to rep me's opinion).

Could 3.3 be the time for Frontier to buck their own trend and prove me completely wrong? I really hope so. But.. fool me once...
Click to expand...
Can I ask what specifically you have in mind when you say "adjusted their target audience"? Do you mean like they've gone for mass appeal? And if so, what do you feel they've done (or not done) to the game to stear it in this direction that you'd rather they hadn't (or had).

As to the criticism about "these events" ... as with most things Frontier do, I honestly believe they're just trying to do something good (I don't buy the cynical marketting view, Frontier really don't feel like that sort of company to me). Get a bunch of us in, show us some stuff, gauge our reaction. It's a moral booster for them to see how much we liked it and I think they hope that the people like myself that were there will now go out into our respective communties and start spreading some enthusiasm. My problem is that I'm cautious about doing so. It would be really easy to gush about what I saw (and there is some great stuff in there and the update feels huge) but then everyone sets their expectation too high and they end up being disappointed.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Alec Turner said:
My problem is that I'm cautious about doing so. It would be really easy to gush about what I saw (and there is some great stuff in there and the update feels huge) but then everyone sets their expectation too high and they end up being disappointed.
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I have always wondered how is that possible? It is YOU that are excited, not ME :) Despite trusting each other, there are some things I might like that you might not - and vice versa.

Being disappointed is part of being grown up. I really wonder why people huge deal out of it. Yes, FD themselves are excited. You are excited. Why you shouldn't be?
 

Alec Turner

Alec Turner
Cmdr Eagleboy said:
Judging from Alec it is not really a compromise but something of olive branch. First, what's the point, people won't accept it anyway, second, I really doubt they can do it without breaking their concept a little.

FD sometimes need to stick with their guns.
Click to expand...
Don't worry, they are 99% sticking to their guns with just this one little tweak.
 
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