I play almost exclusively in open, but I have yet to see one of those mythical "griefers".
Sometimes I get attacked by other commanders, which I perceive as an enrichment to my gameplay, making an otherwise completeley risk-free universe feel a little more dangerous. Unfortunately such encounters are extremely rare outside of hotspots like community goals.
Yeah, it just doesn't happen much outside of extremely populous, low security systems. It's not a big problem,it's just a big problem for the few people that can't be inconvenienced to go into Solo or plan trips around/base away from dangerous places.
Forum whining is its own special thing with different equivocals. Let me demonstrate:
This is a huge problem = this is my huge problem
A lot of people = me and maybe a couple people who agree
Unfair = expects me to think or plan / in my way
Developers need to listen = developers should do my ideas
Serves no purpose = I don't use that feature
We should have x to make up for it/make it easier = I get lonely and scared without participation trophies.
Keep that in mind when reading a forum complaint, and it will make a lot of sense.
In Elite, most fair fights are organized. The rest of PvP features people that have goals in mind, and fair fights are incidental to being caught off guard or not being able to bring more friends.
Ah you've lost me here mate. It's a computer game. We're all snowflakes. If we weren't we'd be out playing rugby instead of eating doritos and flying little pretend spaceships. So let's just try to make it enjoyable maybe?
I surf life threatening waves and do Brazilian JiuJitsu.
There are some very accomplished athletes that play Elite, and post here.
(Jasonbarron for example.)
Speak for yourself, please.
Betas are an anything goes free-for-all precisely because it's a beta test and people are testing things. People getting bent out of shape over almost anything that could happen in the beta has always confounded me.
Right now, I'm testing the exploration and BGS content, because that's where the majority of the changes are, but as soon as the new ships drop, I will make some of them, gather the rest of my ships at a hotspot, and attack everyone I come across, using as broad an array of equipment and tactics as possible, until I run out of money...because that will be the fastest way to identify related bugs and balance issues (which undoubtedly exist even in the current phase of the test...I'm just busy with other things cause I'm selfish like that).
Best to think of the betas as a stress test for the game and all it's various mechanisms. Adhering to the same constraints one would while in character on the live game would make for a poor test.
I hope I can buy you the beverage of your choice (within reason!) some day.
Thank you for always providing a rational, thoughtful and fair perspective.
(I have not had time to read all 19 pages, so apologies if this has already been said)
Why not look at how other games deal with griefing? For example WoW used to have separate PVP and PVE servers but has recently introduced a "War Mode" across all realms. People turn on/off the pvp flag in a main city and then only see others with the same flag out in the world.
If Elite did something similar in Open, you would enable/disable the pvp flag in main stations, then only see other people with the same flag when in supercruise/instances etc. This would likely remove the need for groups like Mobius, reduce unwanted PVP, hopefully reduce combat logging as only those who favour pvp would be attackable.
Hmmm. I can imagine this would be tricky in terms of instancing though. I'd imagine it would be easier to have pvp open and pve open as options. Mobius is a good idea but I just find there aren't enough people there. I never see anyone in Mobius. Might be because I'm on PS4 though - cross-platform could be a great thing for Mobius in that sense, if it comes to Elite.
On this note, I wonder if people would object to pvp open and pve open being separate? Surely that means everyone is happy?
It's something that has always perplexed me. I'm all for pvp with someone who's up for it but not ganking people who just want an open mmo experience without some idiot hell-bent on ruining the game for people. Ganking ruins ED in my opinion. You can't do CGs in open as you'll invariably qet these guys exercising their right (as decided by fdev) to anti-social behaviour. I'm of the belief these guys likely lack the courage for confrontation in real life and so enjoy the tingle they get from being a keyboard warrior. I don't get what it's supposed to add to the game? So can someone explain why ED benefits from a small subset of players being encouraged to actively attempt to make another's game experience unpleasant?
Please note - this is a GAME. I've heard the 'space is a dangerous place' sort of argument but it isn't space. It's a video game. I've also not seen a rebuy screen from a ganker since my lowly days of flying an un-engineered Cobra mk3 so i'm not embittered by some recent altercation.
It would be good if someone from FDev could advise what they see as the benefit of allowing it. I know there will be a raft of 'tough guys' with their usual responses to this kind of question. I'm just going to ignore them.
As I type this, there are 19 pages of debate in this thread. I have not read every response so maybe someone has already stated this perspective. My perspective has evolved over the months and looks something like this.
1. I hate griefers/gankers
2. My engineering, weapons, defenses are geared toward surviving/escaping gankers
3. I enjoy the encounters when I'm on guard and ready for them
4. More and more of my loadouts/testing geared toward destroying them, not just surviving
5. I will destroy them whenever/wherever i find them
6. I will wing up with friends, set traps for griefers/gankers and hunt them down relentlessly
7. I have become a griefer/ganker (caveat: I'm "clean" only kill "wanted" CMDRs)
8. I dont "hate" griefers/gankers anymore. They made me a better PvPer and provide content for me and my friends
Without griefing I would still be flying around in a PvE mothership thinking I'm all that and a bag of chips. Does that answer your question Rambo?
Hmmm. I can imagine this would be tricky in terms of instancing though. I'd imagine it would be easier to have pvp open and pve open as options. Mobius is a good idea but I just find there aren't enough people there. I never see anyone in Mobius. Might be because I'm on PS4 though - cross-platform could be a great thing for Mobius in that sense, if it comes to Elite.
As I type this, there are 19 pages of debate in this thread. I have not read every response so maybe someone has already stated this perspective. My perspective has evolved over the months and looks something like this.
1. I hate griefers/gankers
2. My engineering, weapons, defenses are geared toward surviving/escaping gankers
3. I enjoy the encounters when I'm on guard and ready for them
4. More and more of my loadouts/testing geared toward destroying them, not just surviving
5. I will destroy them whenever/wherever i find them
6. I will wing up with friends, set traps for griefers/gankers and hunt them down relentlessly
7. I have become a griefer/ganker (caveat: I'm "clean" only kill "wanted" CMDRs)
8. I dont "hate" griefers/gankers anymore. They made me a better PvPer and provide content for me and my friends
Without griefing I would still be flying around in a PvE mothership thinking I'm all that and a bag of chips. Does that answer your question Rambo?
As I type this, there are 19 pages of debate in this thread. I have not read every response so maybe someone has already stated this perspective. My perspective has evolved over the months and looks something like this.
1. I hate griefers/gankers
2. My engineering, weapons, defenses are geared toward surviving/escaping gankers
3. I enjoy the encounters when I'm on guard and ready for them
4. More and more of my loadouts/testing geared toward destroying them, not just surviving
5. I will destroy them whenever/wherever i find them
6. I will wing up with friends, set traps for griefers/gankers and hunt them down relentlessly
7. I have become a griefer/ganker (caveat: I'm "clean" only kill "wanted" CMDRs)
8. I dont "hate" griefers/gankers anymore. They made me a better PvPer and provide content for me and my friends
Without griefing I would still be flying around in a PvE mothership thinking I'm all that and a bag of chips. Does that answer your question Rambo?
As I type this, there are 19 pages of debate in this thread. I have not read every response so maybe someone has already stated this perspective. My perspective has evolved over the months and looks something like this.
1. I hate griefers/gankers
2. My engineering, weapons, defenses are geared toward surviving/escaping gankers
3. I enjoy the encounters when I'm on guard and ready for them
4. More and more of my loadouts/testing geared toward destroying them, not just surviving
5. I will destroy them whenever/wherever i find them
6. I will wing up with friends, set traps for griefers/gankers and hunt them down relentlessly
7. I have become a griefer/ganker (caveat: I'm "clean" only kill "wanted" CMDRs)
8. I dont "hate" griefers/gankers anymore. They made me a better PvPer and provide content for me and my friends
Without griefing I would still be flying around in a PvE mothership thinking I'm all that and a bag of chips. Does that answer your question Rambo?
Actually, no. Quite the opposite. This tells me you've been forced to play the game in a way you may otherwise not have chosen to because of a small subset of anti-social players. I don't view this as a positive at all. This implies open play is very limited to combat or defence ready ships, something that actually contradicts the very premise of 'blazing your own trail'.
Actually, no. Quite the opposite. This tells me you've been forced to play the game in a way you may otherwise not have chosen to because of a small subset of anti-social players. I don't view this as a positive at all. This implies open play is very limited to combat or defence ready ships, something that actually contradicts the very premise of 'blazing your own trail'.
Since you are a snowflake by your own admission, perhaps you should endeavor to understand why this progression is viewed as admirable by the non-snowflakes here.
It's sort of a defining characteristic, that attitude.
Actually, no. Quite the opposite. This tells me you've been forced to play the game in a way you may otherwise not have chosen to because of a small subset of anti-social players. I don't view this as a positive at all. This implies open play is very limited to combat or defence ready ships, something that actually contradicts the very premise of 'blazing your own trail'.
Their blazed trail involved killing people like you. Why would your way of playing supersede theirs if you're both using the same justification?
You have a choice to not play with such players. They have to rely on people opting-in to play theirs.
If you have a problem with griefers, the problem is entirely yours. You opted in and then are reing (Fdev censorship code is worse than their beta bug tracking process ... Re-n-i-g-g-i-n-g is not a naughty word. In any language) on what amounts to an agreement. You're being a horrible player. Not the people playing in the appropriate mode to play the way they're playing.
Actually, no. Quite the opposite. This tells me you've been forced to play the game in a way you may otherwise not have chosen to because of a small subset of anti-social players. I don't view this as a positive at all. This implies open play is very limited to combat or defence ready ships, something that actually contradicts the very premise of 'blazing your own trail'.
Or, perhaps, suggests that *is* the game? Blazing your own trail implies wilderness, not the ability to pave the wilderness and burn down the trees so there aren't dark corners anymore.
It seems like your problem is that you want the game to be a different game. That would be very unfair to those of us who like it being this game. You aren't special and you don't get to change it on us to suit your sensibilities. If you don't like this game, why are you playing it?
Their blazed trail involved killing people like you. Why would your way of playing supersede theirs if you're both using the same justification?
You have a choice to not play with such players. They have to rely on people opting-in to play theirs.
If you have a problem with griefers, the problem is entirely yours. You opted in and then are reing (Fdev censorship code is worse than their beta bug tracking process ... Re-n-i-g-g-i-n-g is not a naughty word. In any language) on what amounts to an agreement. You're being a horrible player. Not the people playing in the appropriate mode to play the way they're playing.
Context is something I often bring up, and I so happen to have a few recent videos that I think do a fair job of how apparent "griefing" can be taken out of context...not perfect examples, but what I've got on hand.
I'm going to post the clips in chronological order (as one can see from the time stamps in the videos themselves), but spoiler tag the first two.
Part 1 - while participating in a BH CG I accidentally tag a clean NPC and get a 400cr bounty. Shortly after that happens, this encounter begins:
Part 2 - after being driven off over a 400cr bounty, my CMDR is irate and looking to get even. Deciding that a single testbed FDL is unlikely to manage this against a Krait/FAS/Corvette wing of three, he decides to get into his own Corvette to even the odds:
Watch this last one first....where I started recording shortly after I noticed, and immediately opened fire on, this specific CMDR, who was fighting NPCs for the CG in a clean ship, and who retracted his hardpoints the moment I engaged:
I'm often not happy about it in that moment, but still recognize the possibility of such encounters as inseparable from my overarching desire to play my character in as plausible a setting as practical. Being happy about being shot while my CMDR is minding his own business is almost as immersion defying as people not being able to shoot my CMDR whenever and however they come across him.
The organic, holistic, Open experience occasionally requires negative interactions to be fully realized. If I was happy about everything all the time, I'd not have played the game a tenth as long as I have. Complaining about these experiences is like complaining about experiencing fear while watching a good horror movie, or disgust when reading about historical atrocities.
I do think Open, and ED in general, is intended to be experienced this way, at least to a degree. We may not like have to make 1500 jumps to Beagle Point, but most of us recognize that the journey would loose it's significance if were trivial.
Beta is free for all, even I "gank" in Beta and do other stupid things.
Blocking in Beta is nonsense, just deal with the consequences (there are none really) and accept that other people test stuff. Some are in the mood to tell they test something (I did sometimes) and sometimes it's just pewpewpew. Remember: what happens in Beta stays in Beta.
Well, let's assume these guys were really just 'testing' PvP mechanics... not that I'm aware of changes to wing interdictions but I did see a lot of things not working that should really so that can be a possibility. But couldn't they just do that to each other? Or maybe they could've let me know beforehand, common courtesy and all? Realistically, the answer is probably as simple as 'done it for the lulz'. And there's a fair chance they will act the same way in the live game, which is why they're staying blocked for me (if not, then tough - I won't miss them either way and for them there's plenty more fish in the sea).
As you say there's no impact on my game and which is why the rebuy didn't bother me (or the loss of any data etc.). They do have the potential to waste my time though - imagine travelling further afield (Guardian sites for example), only to get whacked and to then respawn 100s of ly's away having to make the same journey again. And to be honest, I have resorted switching to Solo in the beta now in order to focus on the stuff I want to check out (like the mining features later this week) without these distractions.
I don't want to make it a bigger deal than it is but I would probably spend a lot more time in Solo if the block function wouldn't exist.
