the FSS, watching paint dry....

[[VR] Merkir]

Faded Glory has covered my issues with lack of integration of the FSS with the rest of the game pretty well. It's a separate screen, divorced from everything else, the only purpose of which is to populate the Nav Panel. It's about as complex as an Advent Calendar and being 'free' it doesn't even require an outfitting choice.

Consider instead, as I mentioned, a scanner module with limited optional sub-modules:

Want to detect volcanic activity from 500,000 Ls? Fit the appropriate sub-module.
Looking for HGEs in the Bubble? There's a sub-module that links to the Nav Beacon.
Need the schematic map of the system generated automatically? Guess what?
Going mining? Yep, there's tools to detect hotspots and cores and whatever the mechanic is now.
There's even a mini-game module that you can play if you like chasing blobs.

All the sub-modules come in various grades with varying levels of 'godliness', so everyone can tailor their ships, their outfitting and their gameplay to their particular style. It's EXACTLY how weapons work on the game - you tailor your loadout to your style and the task you're doing.

It has the advantage of being extensible as new gameplay options are added, without an ever increasing number of module/utility slots being needed.

Instead we got a simplistic one-size-fits-all system dumped on us.

Blaze your own trail? Not so much.

Yes. This is part of my preferred exploration game design. And don't forget the engineering Experimental Effects for extra flavour.

In short, FDev could have given us the BDSEE (best damn space exploration ever). They have a huge advantage over other games - the Stellar Forge - and it's been wasted by sticking a childish mini-game in front of it. Discovery game play should have revolved around player choice, options and strategy (especially)... a more realistic and cerebral approach rather than hand-eye coordination procedure we've been given. (And see lots of previous posts and other threads for details of alternative game designs).

Edit: And now I'm off to do some more mining.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Hahhaha advent calendar hahahahhaha. Yeah that's it.

Cant find your post drew but i like it.

Loaded with chocolates too.

Anyway. If you had to use it.. if system has gas giants discover the gas giants and fly there to do that and discover its moons. Clear out standalone bodies afterwards via the fss (less trial and error). Also noticed another clue.. once you've discovered something, its body number is written in its spot on the blue screen, so you can get more confidence in feeling out a flight path.. if its a low number you know you won't be heading off to the blob at the end of the solar system as first stop. Other stars are also marked this way, so you can avoid any sister systems if you want.

Oh wait i guess the point is moot because if you've discovered it you can click on it and just go there anyway.

The trick with the fss again is turning out to be avoiding spending too much time in there. If you can keep it under the pain threshold.. getting there... getting there...

Edit: disclaimer this approach assumes you forget about the system map for navigation. If you start using it it will you mad at the fss again because it’s better. Only pull up the system map for materials, tags and if you want the visuals once you are already there.

Also id hate to be a new player in this environment.. There are 3 ways to plot a route within a system now, and depending on what you're doing and where you are it changes to what the best approach is. Mind blown. There's also multiple tiers of decision making now on whether you want to proceed, and a mandatory first step where without completely stupid about it, its completely random trial and error with a chance of failure (flying away from the orbital plane BEFORE using the fss for the first time.. really.. turning on the fss just for that is so bad.......... or is it.. not if you honked from the fss then scooped and cleared distance).

Musing 2: Which still leaves the problem of the tagging game. We're now told that mapping is valuable too, but already have a tag on discovery. This would require a completely different approach as well depending on where you are. In bubble mapping is the new discovering (it really is). But out of the bubble, discovering is back but mapping only done for poi's, double tagging is just silly... the value proposition is busted.. hmmm..

(I hope some of the above could help people with similar problems.. ).

 

[Good Death]

Nothing wrong with the FSS took a trip to the Hawking's Gap came back and cashed in 93,828,584 creds. I left on the 29th of December returned today. Should anything else be said? Close thread.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Nothing wrong with the FSS took a trip to the Hawking's Gap came back and cashed in 93,828,584 creds. I left on the 29th of December returned today. Should anything else be said? Close thread.

You could have gotten 1 billion Cr for all I care, this is not about money.

 

[Good Death]

You could have gotten 1 billion Cr for all I care, this is not about money.

My post was not solely about money. It was also about speed. I've never completely scanned so many systems in such a short time. Sorry I also forgot to add that it was the most fun I've ever had exploring. [yesnod]

 

[Shinji Ikari]

My post was not solely about money. It was also about speed. I've never completely scanned so many systems in such a short time. Sorry I also forgot to add that it was the most fun I've ever had exploring. [yesnod]

As I have explained several times (I should just C&P), this depends on what you wish to compare, scanning the whole system is faster, getting the system view is slower.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

FSS is pretend ‘depth’.

I prefered the straight up honk. It was a bit but at least it was just and not still pretending to be non-.

This is the best one yet. All games are pretend depth. That is why they are computer games and not real life.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Just in case people lose the plot, the fss can stay as it is.. while there are half a dozen fundamental improvements you could make to it, noone apart from the white knights has demanded frontier to make these changes apart from during the beta (apparently that's what we're all doing, and since none of us have, the only demands have come from the knights).

The fix would be to enable using the fss in tandem with any other mechanic that enables the old methods of reward earning as well.

I think some people want the system map, and while only very recently ive seen how elegant it was, am happy to suffer not having that so that the fss knight stompers are not upset.

What would be the point of using the FSS (which is there for you to discover the planets and moons yourself) when you have already done so. Using the old ADS in tandem would make a mockery of the new mechanics. The mechanics would make no sense.

Sure have the old ADS and DSS back as long as it is mutually exclusive to the new version. You can't have both installed.

 

[ChaosCloud]

Yes, it is extremely boring. If becomes even more boring after you setup the controls and are able to use it with muscle memory alone.

I am, for the 4th time, trying to have a bite at the turd sandwich, hoping it might be an acquired taste (mostly because I had left my ship at the Gnosis when I last played the live build and logged in to realize the Gnosis is in the Elephant's Trunk nebula 2K away from the bubble). But the more I point and zoom and zoom and point, the more I hate it.

I think it's monotony beats the death-by-boredom that is flying in between the individual planets. Granted, it DOES become monotone, but it still saves time in doing so which makes it still an improvement.

However, I really dislike the speed limit on it, I'd rather be able to still control my speed while scanning so I can cover distance towards a planet which I wanna surface scan AND still continue scanning the rest of the system.

 

[yianniv]

However, I really dislike the speed limit on it, I'd rather be able to still control my speed while scanning so I can cover distance towards a planet which I wanna surface scan AND still continue scanning the rest of the system.

I'd really like FD to lift the speed limit while scanning. This way people would realize it's difficult to focus on moving targets and ask for the limit to be put back on. FD has actually done us a favor here.

 

[ChaosCloud]

I'd really like FD to lift the speed limit while scanning. This way people would realize it's difficult to focus on moving targets and ask for the limit to be put back on. FD has actually done us a favor here.

There's a reason why I said "control speed while scanning". I've already had stuff try to resist the scan even at SC stop speed. Still, for the more distant things it would be a time saver to be on the move while scanning what's left holding still.

Ultimately it'd be also an intelligence test because you'd have to decide whenever or not to make it hard on yourself.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Last night's session was mostly systems that had been explored by other people, or systems without planets. This would be great for travel speed... if it wasn't for the fact that after a couple of such systems, I go another three or four jumps further off the beaten path. It was starting to get late (for a pre-dawn worker), and I wanted to end the session doing something memorable. Then I stumbled upon a system that, under any other circumstances, would've been utterly uninteresting to me, provided a unique opportunity...

[video=youtube;Uvg1FPLCVd8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvg1FPLCVd8&feature=youtu.be[/video]

00:25 - During hyperspace transits, I'm estimating my destination's habitable zone. Since the "information" panel doesn't reveal too much information about the next system's primary, this is, by necessity, incredibly basic. I know I there's versions of "sticky notes" for VR, but even when I played in 2D, I preferred to rely on my memory. I find it more fun that way.

00:38 - I spot a planetary body on my scanner, and I'm thinking, "REALLY? I'm over 400 frelling light years away from the most direct route, and someone's already explored the system???"

00:43 - And here's where I think, "Oh, wait... there's nine bodies in the system, and I see two on my scanner. Close enough!"

00:50 - Here's one problem with my "park by the sun" strategy to find eclipses: the light of the star washes out the orbital plane. Thankfully, I'm in VR, so I can turn my head to look for it.

01:00 - At this stage, I'm thinking, "OK, now this is interesting! Half the bodies in this system are in rough alignment with each other. It's going to be harder to tease out any information about them without resolving them." This is a good thing in my book. I add them to my "must investigate closer" list, and continue my pan of the system.

01:19 - Having identified the remaining planets, two of them on the far side of the sun, I return to that knot of planets. As I prepare to unravel them, a most glorious thought occurs to me... I'm going to resolve these planets via parallax!

01:29 - "For Science! For Drew! For The FISH!"

01:31 - "Oh... of course the already discovered planet is along this vector. Takes half the fun out it."

01:34 - And it's the one planet with a moon. It could be in the habitable zone of this star, so that explains why it's the only one in this system that was explored previously.

01:55 - In case you all are wondering what I'm doing here, I'm using one of my canopy's supports as a fixed reference point, so I can more easily tell the difference between planets and stars.

02:30 - Time to thread this needle!

02:34 - Wait... didn't they resolve? Oh, good. They did! Next planet!

03:13 - Alright! Another one resolved!

03:28 - Wait... where'd the other one go??? Okay, time to use the FSS to regain my bearing

03:41 - I think those are the planets on the opposite side of the system...

03:48 - There you are!

04:40 - In the process of reacquiring my original target, I spot the inner most planets. At least I'll know where to look.

04:50 - Finally!!!

05:11 - Wait... it didn't resolve??? Does auto-resolving require a minimum amount of time spent within range??? CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

05:45 - I'm not sure what I was thinking there...

06:49 - If I didn't know better, you'd think I was in a motion control rig or something... do I lean into my turns or something?

07:18 - Nailed it!

08:06 - I really need to develop a better braking technique for these smaller single bodies. This one's for approaching a station in orbit, and it's causing me to lose line of sight. Now, where's that last one?

08:27 - A proper flyby for the fun of it.

08:32 - It would be nice if we had the body count on the analysis screen IMO... It just occurred to me now that I could've honked for this information instead. Next time!

09:00 - Using my canopy supports to confirm what I'm looking at actually a planet again.

10:10 - One more to go!

10:45 - But where is it?

10:55 - No gaps in the planet sequence, so it must be the outer one...

11:30 - [SUB]o[/SUB]/^~Hunting planets. Hunting planets. Where are you? Where are you? [SUB]o[/SUB]/^~

12:40 - WHERE IS IT?????

12:58 - Oh, right... I can use the FSS to help look for it...

13:05 - Target reacquired!

13:07 - Maybe I should just... nah!

13:02 - [SUB]o[/SUB]/^~On the road again! Just can't wait to get on the road again![SUB]o[/SUB]/^~

14:10 - Once again using the support to confirm that what I'm look at is a planet...

15:25 - Those most glorious worlds... "System scan complete."

15:45 - Let's take a look at what we've got

16:10 - Time to jump out!

One Hour Later, as I'm trying to fall asleep...

I should've throttled down and probed those planets as I flew by!!! DOH! [noob]

 

[Maro-Val]

But who's to say you're right? You use the word "I" a lot.

White knight is an expression that kids use, just letting you know.

Yes i HAVE TO use the word "I" a lot when responding to you, because you clearly have a problem understanding that what i post is only my opinion, it doesn't mean that i am right, just like it doesn't mean that you are right.

Again, you saying who and in what age should use an expression or a word... hmm.. i better not type what i think of that lol. Let's just say that if indeed i am a kid, you seem to be a lot younger.

 

[Barking_Mad]

There's only one person who goes around saying that.. at least there's 20 people who don't it seems.

Its about 50/50 in this thread at least, considering the one off posts and people who do and dont like it that dont care anymore.

I'd disagree on 50/50, but for better or worse I'd suggest you don't look at this thread for the proof of the validity of the new mechanics.

Its a curiosity of course. Frontier will likely only respond to PR. If they go on metrics alone it will take them months to even wake up.

I don't see any outcry elsewhere. It's not as if forums are burning to the ground with angry players as has been the case with previous demands for something to change. It's not as if the number of people playing are dropping off the scale. Distant Worlds alone now has 5k people taking part.

Sadly elite isn't a passion project, its part of a growing developer working on 5 or 6 simultaneous projects. As long as we keep checking the measure for ourselves we'll be fine. It really is true they wont miss us on the way out.

I'm pretty sure most devs working on the game are passionate about it. Devs like making games for the most part. I'm sure some fancy a change of scenery and luckily they can have one.

 

[Riverside]

Last night's session was mostly systems that had been explored by other people, or systems without planets. This would be great for travel speed... if it wasn't for the fact that after a couple of such systems, I go another three or four jumps further off the beaten path. It was starting to get late (for a pre-dawn worker), and I wanted to end the session doing something memorable. Then I stumbled upon a system that, under any other circumstances, would've been utterly uninteresting to me, provided a unique opportunity...

Firstly, interesting to see the FSS Scanner Screen from inside VR.
Your vid makes a good argument for the benefit of allowing it to be used at speed, as a HUD or head mounted window to display the blobs. As you say it made an otherwise ordinary (to you) system a fun emergent activity I'm glad you're able to do & that I'd like to try every once in a while

It also shows a benefit of separating the honk from the population of the FSS Scanner Screen. With a (currently imaginary) ADS fitted for automatic reveal of targetable [unexplored] bodies simple combinations like not honking at all to achieve what your video shows (using the FSS Scanner Screen for location clues), doing a high speed 'round the system' having honked to reveal reticles & zooming past instead of waiting for the DSS to resolve as we had before; I can picture Drew enjoying this (I would too) while still allowing me to hunt & peck at each icy moon I'm interested in or most of the time, quickly pass the system by for someone else to bag & tag.

 

[DyeH]

So I'm confused how people find this boring. *sarcasm ahead* Flying 100,000ls to discover a rocky body orbiting a distant gas giant was so much more fun.

 

[Old Duck]

Exploration isn't competitive, so meta has less impact - especially since it's clear from this thread alone that explorers do their thing in wildly different ways.

Speak for yourself, lad. I find exploration very competitive. Be glad I'm stuck in solo, because if I caught you trespassing in my space, well let's just say some of us actually do care about the "discovered by" tags, though not necessarily for the reasons you many think.

Personally I'd like to see exploration ships "give up" their data caches on destruction, which could then be turned in for the credits. Have the original explorer get the tags, but whoever hands in the cache gets the cash. This would let explorers retrieve their own hard work if they face-palm a planet, and it would also give Julio some more exciting gameplay to engage in

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Speak for yourself, lad. I find exploration very competitive. Be glad I'm stuck in solo, because if I caught you trespassing in my space, well let's just say some of us actually do care about the "discovered by" tags, though not necessarily for the reasons you many think.

Personally I'd like to see exploration ships "give up" their data caches on destruction, which could then be turned in for the credits. Have the original explorer get the tags, but whoever hands in the cache gets the cash. This would let explorers retrieve their own hard work if they face-palm a planet, and it would also give Julio some more exciting gameplay to engage in

I agree. Exploration can be competitive and also has been in the past. I am not a competitive explorer myself, but I am sure others are.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Speak for yourself, lad. I find exploration very competitive. Be glad I'm stuck in solo, because if I caught you trespassing in my space, well let's just say some of us actually do care about the "discovered by" tags, though not necessarily for the reasons you many think.

Personally I'd like to see exploration ships "give up" their data caches on destruction, which could then be turned in for the credits. Have the original explorer get the tags, but whoever hands in the cache gets the cash. This would let explorers retrieve their own hard work if they face-palm a planet, and it would also give Julio some more exciting gameplay to engage in

That's why my exploration ships have guns & shields Just in case the Old Duck is stomping on my territory! (Ignore the fact I'm in Mobius when out...)

I'm only around 13KLy outside the bubble currently, looking for Bio / NSP's - not seen any Bio for the last couple of hundred jumps, maybe I'm travelling through 'the barrens'.

 

[Good Death]

That's why my exploration ships have guns & shields Just in case the Old Duck is stomping on my territory! (Ignore the fact I'm in Mobius when out...)

I'm only around 13KLy outside the bubble currently, looking for Bio / NSP's - not seen any Bio for the last couple of hundred jumps, maybe I'm travelling through 'the barrens'.

You don't need guns for shieldless T7.[haha]