PvP Distant Ganks 2 Week 1 Update

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

Hi there Rinzler of the many o7's (no offense meant...)

I have yourself and Harry on my friends list (I will admit that it is purely for selfish reasons ! Where is Harry / Rinzler… ok I will pop into open/ or Nope not doing that...)

How important is Boost in your equations ?
Would you go for Higher shields/Armour even in a not so boosty explorer? (ie max is 360...)

Not that I am thinking of trying my luck with you lot.... (maybe ?...)

Any input received with gratitude !

ps - I know you have some youtube stuff... but I have young ears in the house...

The thing most people aren't aware of is that boosting isn't a purely linear longitudinal thing. It also massively increases your ship's lateral and vertical thrusters for a few seconds, which can make a ship fairly difficult to hit if it's used right. From a survival point of view, it's one of the most important mechanics. The ability to change your ship's vector in an instant can buy you a lot of time away from your opponent's weapons (something 99% of gank victims miss out on since they boost in a straight line).

Exploration shields/armour is an interesting topic, especially since the release of guardian FSD boosters. If the Distant Ganks expedition has proved anything, it's that fully tanked up ships are just as capable as the typical paper builds flown by the masses in most cases. We're all flying mostly Kraits and Condas with 30-40 LY jump range, which is enough to get you anywhere.

For a generic exploration/taxi/expedition engineered Asp, I'd run something like this: https://edshipyard.net/builds/39n
454 MJ shields, 754 armour, 550 m/s boost, and 55 LY jump range (with the usual vehicle hangar, 6B fuel scoop, and 2x AFM setup). Properly gank-proof as long as you don't do anything too stupid in it. Your boost speed matches a PvP FDL's boost, and your defenses would last long enough to escape from a 4v1 if you were quick with your highwake.

Some posters cannot fathom that to many pilots a rebuy is no big deal.

It is true that rebuys are a big deal to some pilots due to explo data or pride or shock or whatever. However, considering how much good advice some of us - you in particular - have given on exactly how to avoid rebuys, I feel it's been balanced.

More importantly, I don't know if anyone has thanked you for your service in Operation Tinman, an event with galaxy wide ramifications. Z0 brave CMDR.

For real, my advice to the playerbase has always been to highwake on any unwanted encounter. The whole 2D FSD thing is something you'd do only if you were confident in your ability to kill the opposition or low wake, and if you had enough credits that rebuys were a non-issue in the first place. This forum's stupidity still amazes me.

Z0 CMDR

Good news everyone!

PvP is playable again. Everyone return to their regular schedule.

Drinks all around!

Well, since we're all already out here...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well, since we're all already out here...

You guys are out there all right, way out there

But since you're all already there ... pint?

 

[Maolagin]

For a generic exploration/taxi/expedition engineered Asp, I'd run something like this: https://edshipyard.net/builds/39n
454 MJ shields, 754 armour, 550 m/s boost, and 55 LY jump range (with the usual vehicle hangar, 6B fuel scoop, and 2x AFM setup). Properly gank-proof as long as you don't do anything too stupid in it. Your boost speed matches a PvP FDL's boost, and your defenses would last long enough to escape from a 4v1 if you were quick with your highwake.

So a point I think is worth making here. The build you just linked there is G5 almost every module. I've been playing the better part of a year and even I don't have all the engineers unlocked to build that, and maybe not even enough top-tier mats for all those rolls. (Someday I'll get around to the modular terminals missions to unlock the Qwent tree and get my G5 drives done.) It would be far more convincing for the open-skeptical reader to also post more accessible builds that can survive (not fight, just survive) in open.

So for example, I would claim this build is almost as good: https://s.orbis.zone/1Pno
396MJ shields, 762 armor, 500 m/s boost and still 55 LY range. Difference is, I only use the starting tier engineers plus Cheung, Tani, and Jean from the 2nd tier (and IIRC the DWII prep week activities helped unlock these). Also, to conserve mats, I only G5 rolled the PP, FSD, and shield gen, G4 or less for everything else. There are seriously diminishing returns for some mods. Case in point, going from G4->G5 lightweight armor mod you lose maybe 10 armor but gain a small fraction of a LY jump range. Dropping to 0B shield boosters gains back some range and power draw for pretty minimal impact on shields too. Obviously there's many ways to tweak it, but overall this is a far more approachable setup and I would default to posting something like this just to pre-empt some of the "but the grind!" responses.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

The build you just linked there is G5 almost every module. [..]. Difference is, I only use the starting tier engineers plus Cheung, Tani, and Jean from the 2nd tier (and IIRC the DWII prep week activities helped unlock these)

Yes along these lines I made a martuuk/farseer only build that is not as good as any of the others listed but way less grindy and still decent shot to survive: https://s.orbis.zone/1y24

Grind pain is real for everyone.

 

[Guest 161958]

Look at this thread, must have gotten boring in open

 

[Shinji Ikari]

We're all flying mostly Kraits and Condas with 30-40 LY jump range, which is enough to get you anywhere.

[video=youtube;ztVMib1T4T4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4[/video]

You know, I'd think that an elite explorer would already know this, but it seems PvPers aren't the most savy players after all...

 

[fieval]

The thing most people aren't aware of is that boosting isn't a purely linear longitudinal thing. It also massively increases your ship's lateral and vertical thrusters for a few seconds, which can make a ship fairly difficult to hit if it's used right. From a survival point of view, it's one of the most important mechanics. The ability to change your ship's vector in an instant can buy you a lot of time away from your opponent's weapons (something 99% of gank victims miss out on since they boost in a straight line).

Exploration shields/armour is an interesting topic, especially since the release of guardian FSD boosters. If the Distant Ganks expedition has proved anything, it's that fully tanked up ships are just as capable as the typical paper builds flown by the masses in most cases. We're all flying mostly Kraits and Condas with 30-40 LY jump range, which is enough to get you anywhere.

For a generic exploration/taxi/expedition engineered Asp, I'd run something like this: https://edshipyard.net/builds/39n
454 MJ shields, 754 armour, 550 m/s boost, and 55 LY jump range (with the usual vehicle hangar, 6B fuel scoop, and 2x AFM setup). Properly gank-proof as long as you don't do anything too stupid in it. Your boost speed matches a PvP FDL's boost, and your defenses would last long enough to escape from a 4v1 if you were quick with your highwake.

That Asp is pretty much what I run as my bubble taxi in open. That and a speedy iCourier are my go to ships in Open when in the bubble.

My Annie has 1000 MJ of shields (courtesy of boosters really..) about 1200 in Armour, BUT... a smaller Power Plant and Distro. So I can only run at 360 -370 and not boost too often ! (So, I am a slow moving target...)

However, your point is spot on... it was common to travel the Galaxy in ships that jumped 35 LY not too long ago.
We seem to have gone too far the other way...(myself included).
I am running a mining rig at the moment and still get 65 LY, so really there is no reason I could not sacrifice another 5 or 10 LY and give it a decent PP and Distro.

Something to think about for when I get back to the Bubble.

 

[jasonbarron]

You know, I'd think that an elite explorer would already know this, but it seems PvPers aren't the most savy players after all...

I'm pretty sure that I already know the answer, but it's so absurd that I can't quite believe it, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask anyway: What's so funny?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I'm pretty sure that I already know the answer, but it's so absurd that I can't quite believe it, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask anyway: What's so funny?

You can't go anywhere with 30 Ly - 40 Ly, you might as well deduce the rest.

 

[jasonbarron]

You can't go anywhere with 30 Ly - 40 Ly, you might as well deduce the rest.

So, you're laughing at how pathetic their builds are, got it. I guess we'll just set aside the fact that Rinzler was correct in saying that you can get anywhere with a base 30-40 ly range, and the next time someone like Ziggy asks me why I blow up explorers (and will continue to go way out of my way to do so for as long as I play this game from now on), I'll just point at your smarmy little bit of nonsense and say "Ziggy m'man, I present to you exhibit A. Have a look at this twaddle and tell me it doesn't make you want to destroy these guys, too?"

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Maybe. I just don't know any PvPers crazy enough to make that trip, but there could be that rare case.

Wasn’t the Queen of Sag A* pre-engineers? Plus didn’t a SDC guy gank someone at Beagle Point a while back?

Or you’re just downplaying it, Jason, because you’re the guy doing it.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

So, you're laughing at how pathetic their builds are, got it. I guess we'll just set aside the fact that Rinzler was correct in saying that you can get anywhere with a base 30-40 ly range, and the next time someone like Ziggy asks me why I blow up explorers (and will continue to go way out of my way to do so for as long as I play this game from now on), I'll just point at your smarmy little bit of nonsense and say "Ziggy m'man, I present to you exhibit A. Have a look at this twaddle and tell me it doesn't make you want to destroy these guys, too?"

Do you want me to post examples of places not reachable with 30-40 Ly or will you concede now?

BTW, I know you'll keep destoying explorers regardless of this conversation so you can forget about me retracting what I said just for that.

 

[jasonbarron]

Wasn’t the Queen of Sag A* pre-engineers? Plus didn’t a SDC guy gank someone at Beagle Point a while back?

Or you’re just downplaying it, Jason, because you’re the guy doing it.

Hush now, Phisto. Just hush up.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

You can't go anywhere with 30 Ly - 40 Ly, you might as well deduce the rest.

FSD boost is a thing

Also pre engineering that was max jump range or did we forget about that.

So yee you can just about anywhere with that range. Not everywhere because even 60ly is not enough or its locked

 

[Shinji Ikari]

FSD boost is a thing

Yeah I know, I have used it plently of times. It doesn't refute what I said.

Also pre engineering that was max jump range or did we forget about that.

And that's relevant because...

So yee you can just about anywhere with that range. Not everywhere because even 60ly is not enough or its locked

Ahhh, see? Only one word can fix your statement. You can go to the majority of places with 40 Ly but in the fringes (which cover all of the galaxy) and in some gaps between the arms, it's simply not enough even with FSD boosts.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Do you want me to post examples of places not reachable with 30-40 Ly or will you concede now?

BTW, I know you'll keep destoying explorers regardless of this conversation so you can forget about me retracting what I said just for that.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you conceded. Cheers.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Impressive rhetorical skills aside can DG2 get wherever DW2 is with their jump ranges? Call me crazy, but that seems like a more pertinent question.

 

[Morbad]

You can't go anywhere with 30 Ly - 40 Ly

You can go pretty much everywhere with half that.

Pre-Engineering, 40ly was only possible in a completely stripped down Anaconda.

Do you want me to post examples of places not reachable with 30-40 Ly or will you concede now?

There are are probably tens of thousands of systems that can't be reached even with a base jump range of 100 ly. There are still hundreds of billions of systems that are no problem with 20ly.

Impressive rhetorical skills aside can DG2 get wherever DW2 is with their jump ranges? Call me crazy, but that seems like a more pertinent question.

There is almost certainly not any waypoint on DW2 that requires more than ~17ly base jump range to reach.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

You can go pretty much everywhere with half that.

Pre-Engineering, 40ly was only possible in a completely stripped down Anaconda.



There are are probably tens of thousands of systems that can't be reached even with a base jump range of 100 ly. There are still hundreds of billions of systems that are no problem with 20ly.

Almost anywhere =! anywhere, for the second time.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Flowery, semantic arguing has terrible damage resistance and DPS.