Notice A statement on cheating in Elite Dangerous.

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For those who play the game in a competitive manner it is a dealbreaker, "apocalypse" is a rhetoric way of saying that, and you are using a strawman.
So how many cheats have you met in game?
I'm sure they exist - as was illustrated so well by the CMDR who got himself a ban by slot blocking - and action should be taken to negate the particular software. I'm just curious how widespread the use of that cheat is :)
 
For those who play the game in a competitive manner it is a dealbreaker, "apocalypse" is a rhetoric way of saying that, and you are using a strawman.

Sure, if you meet a cheater it is a dealbreaker, in which case, if you think you are facing a cheat, disengage, then report them to FD. Ideally with video evidence.

Retoric? Sorry, no, drama. If people discussed things in a sensible manner, we might be able to have a more constructive discussion.

Strawman? Please explain how.
 
You similarly attempt to depreciate the issue. Your stance is the more damaging one imo.

If you don't think it's a big deal just ignore what you interpret to be extreme views and they won't gain as much traction, if what you assume is correct.

I do believe some of the hysterics around here is unwarranted yes. I agree its bad, i agree FD really need to do something, and i hope they are doing something. I disagree its the more damaging (naturally), and i think the hysterical posts of some people are far more damaging.

As for ignoring, i could, but there again, maybe i can convince someone they are being extreme and perhaps to discuss things in a more rational manner.
 
Damaging? Neither stance is damaging.

actually, not, but just because frontier doesn't seem to give a flying arx about what's said here, and that's because it's by now pretty evident that the only strategy they have for the issue is 'learn to live with it', i.e. do nothing special. it's just as if they had decided there is nothing to worry about. maybe there isn't ...

I just find calling the occurence of cheats in an online game an apocalypse, frankly speaking, hysterically funny.

that's subjective. it may be a storm in a teacup, but that's still a storm for a fly in the tea, right? those are pvpers and any pvp-friendly players who have (utterly wrongly, go figure!!!) assumed that this game gives proper importance to the pvp setting and workings. in such a scenario the current news would be indeed of disastrous consequences, very well comparable to an apocalypse, and would push the game and the developer away from the scene in no time. even as a non- or anti-pvper you should be able to understand this. with a tiny little bit of effort? yes? just a little bit?

now, of course this is all moot because ed never was a serious attempt at pvp in the first place, nor plans to be. that was just 'some confusing communication' on their marketing thingy and wishful thinking from the players. nothing to see here.
 
Sure, if you meet a cheater it is a dealbreaker, in which case, if you think you are facing a cheat, disengage, then report them to FD. Ideally with video evidence.

The thing is, we shouldn't have to do that in the first place plus you are assuming we can actually see if they are cheating.

Retoric? Sorry, no, drama. If people discussed things in a sensible manner, we might be able to have a more constructive discussion.

Drama? Sorry, no, rhetoric. Do you really think he meant it was an apocalypse?

Strawman? Please explain how.

The complain directed at FD is about the wide availability of cheats and the lack of effective countermeasures for months not about the game having some cheats.
 
The thing is, we shouldn't have to do that in the first place plus you are assuming we can actually see if they are cheating.



Drama? Sorry, no, rhetoric. Do you really think he meant it was an apocalypse?



The complain directed at FD is about the wide availability of cheats and the lack of effective countermeasures for months not about the game having some cheats.

Well, from my own experience as a hacker, saying "we shouldn't have to" makes me smile. There is no such thing as perfect hack prevention. You can get damn good protection, as i noted earlier, Easy is pretty good from what i hear and makes things difficult, but it also becomes a challenge. It stops the script kiddies and requires the real professional hackers to make the hacks that get around that. Now, if FD were to use Easy anti-cheat, it would most likely kill all the existing cheats, since as far as i know, they all use the same method. The question would then be, would one of the really good hackers step up and take on the challenge. For a really popular game like Fortnite, they do. For ED.... i suppose it all depends on whether any of them are interested.

Regardless, if you think someone might be cheating, report them anyway. You won't always know, if a cheater is being circumspect, but if they are cheating in open, i question their ability to do that.

Second part - no, i think he was being a drama llama.

Third part - wide availability? You mean 2 variants of the same cheat being made by 2 hackers? There might be another vairant in the wild, i'm not sure whether its a real hack or whether its a scam.

The lack of effective countermeasures? I don't know. Do you have inside knowledge of what goes on? How many they have banned? How good their detection is? I know from reading the cheat forum that some people have been banned within the last few months. Whether that was because FD spotted them, someone reported them, or whether they were just doing something incredibly stupid (like jumping 500 LY or whatever in 1 jump, i don't know).
 
The lack of effective countermeasures? I don't know. Do you have inside knowledge of what goes on? How many they have banned? How good their detection is? I know from reading the cheat forum that some people have been banned within the last few months. Whether that was because FD spotted them, someone reported them, or whether they were just doing something incredibly stupid (like jumping 500 LY or whatever in 1 jump, i don't know).

well, they managed to get caught pants down for hours by that t10 blocking the mail slot. while streaming. in open.

and i've been poking around the kiddies forum too. that's as innocent as it gets. no, they don't have it under control. not at all. ofc that's just my opinion, we don't know the internals, they won't tell. they don't say a word, just regurgitate that blank and meaningless statement again and again. lately not even that.

could they be implementing thorough and solid anti-cheat silently in the background? well, it can't be ruled out. neither can flying elephants, mind you, but i wouldn't bet my lunch on it :D
 
maybe i can convince someone they are being extreme and perhaps to discuss things in a more rational manner.

You could, but you weren't.

I've never knowing been Clogged on and it probably wouldn't be very frustrating if they did but I recognise that it's something that should be handled by the game.

I have been opposed by people who have (proudly) cynically instance switched to farm materials for engineering, short-cutting past work I have done to reach the same level of defence & offence. It isn't very frustrating and I understand their motivation (principally because it's endemic behaviour) but I recognise that it's something that should be handled by the game.
 
Well, from my own experience as a hacker, saying "we shouldn't have to" makes me smile. There is no such thing as perfect hack prevention. You can get damn good protection, as i noted earlier, Easy is pretty good from what i hear and makes things difficult, but it also becomes a challenge. It stops the script kiddies and requires the real professional hackers to make the hacks that get around that. Now, if FD were to use Easy anti-cheat, it would most likely kill all the existing cheats, since as far as i know, they all use the same method. The question would then be, would one of the really good hackers step up and take on the challenge. For a really popular game like Fortnite, they do. For ED.... i suppose it all depends on whether any of them are interested.

Another strawman...

Regardless, if you think someone might be cheating, report them anyway. You won't always know, if a cheater is being circumspect, but if they are cheating in open, i question their ability to do that.

I rather report if I'm sure, innocent until proven otherwise.

Second part - no, i think he was being a drama llama.

Having widely available cheats in a competitive sector defeats its purpose, for some including him, it's a deal breaker, you just don't relate and call it drama.

Third part - wide availability? You mean 2 variants of the same cheat being made by 2 hackers? There might be another vairant in the wild, i'm not sure whether its a real hack or whether its a scam.

Wide availability in that it's easy to use and get away with it provided you aren't an idiot.

The lack of effective countermeasures? I don't know. Do you have inside knowledge of what goes on? How many they have banned? How good their detection is? I know from reading the cheat forum that some people have been banned within the last few months. Whether that was because FD spotted them, someone reported them, or whether they were just doing something incredibly stupid (like jumping 500 LY or whatever in 1 jump, i don't know).

They may have some countermeasures, they certainly aren't effective given the persistence of the same cheats...
 
You could, but you weren't.

I've never knowing been Clogged on and it probably wouldn't be very frustrating if they did but I recognise that it's something that should be handled by the game.

I have been opposed by people who have (proudly) cynically instance switched to farm materials for engineering, short-cutting past work I have done to reach the same level of defence & offence. It isn't very frustrating and I understand their motivation (principally because it's endemic behaviour) but I recognise that it's something that should be handled by the game.

I understand cheating is frustrating for those who have experienced it and i've never said otherwise.
 
Another strawman...



I rather report if I'm sure, innocent until proven otherwise.



Having widely available cheats in a competitive sector defeats its purpose, for some including him, it's a deal breaker, you just don't relate and call it drama.



Wide availability in that it's easy to use and get away with it provided you aren't an idiot.



They may have some countermeasures, they certainly aren't effective given the persistence of the same cheats...

Can you please say something constructive than just declaring my posts to be a strawman. That's twice now, without saying why its a strawman.

I agree cheats existing are a problem, i agree FD really need to do something about it and I hope they are. I agree that cheats are easily obtainable and easy to use, if you are inclined to cheat.

What i'm not doing is getting all hystical about it.
 
Cheating is a problem in most popular MP games and I have the impression that devs are pretty helpless. Apparently it's a problem in BF, the auto-anticheat doesnt discover as many. Reported cheaters dont get banned. All in all - it's become so rampant in big titles that it's also become a larger economical strain to manage and that is a thing many companies dont commit to because it hurts the baseline. The only conclusion I draw is to stay away from competitive AAA, find games that have moderators in servers, join a group, play more coop and SP.
 
The only conclusion I draw is to stay away from competitive AAA, find games that have moderators in servers, join a group, play more coop and SP.

indeed... it is a problem with PC MP gaming in general in my opinion and one which i think is not discussed enough in the console vs PC chat.
sure pc games have better eyecandy and often better peripheral support but (in general) at least on a console everyone has a level playing field and cheating is far less of an issue.

For Elite it does not bother me because, as you suggest i only play coop and single player (as much as you can do single player in ED)

however FDs insistance on pushing MP only content and which if past actions are to go by it is not that much of a stretch to think that the fleet carriers will have some form of competitive element to them so that looks likely to continue..

imo the bones of ED are best suited to a co-operative / or single player kind of game, however FD seem instant on building competitive MP focused gameplay on top of them, even if the foundations are not ideal for it.

Shame really because huge compromises have in my opinion clearly been made for this vision.
 
Can you please say something constructive than just declaring my posts to be a strawman. That's twice now, without saying why its a strawman.

I did state why it was a strawman previously, the second strawman is pretty much the same so I figured you'd realize...

I agree cheats existing are a problem, i agree FD really need to do something about it and I hope they are. I agree that cheats are easily obtainable and easy to use, if you are inclined to cheat.

What i'm not doing is getting all hystical about it.

There's hardly any hystery here...
 
I did state why it was a strawman previously, the second strawman is pretty much the same so I figured you'd realize...



There's hardly any hystery here...

Then its simply a case of my not understanding what you meant and not a strawman. I must admit, i had missed that part of the comment. Thank you for clarifying your meaning. Regardless, we don't know what FD are doing in terms of countermeasures, all we can see is that its not as effective as we would like. It doesn't mean they are not trying to do something about it (nor does it mean they are). As i said earlier i think, either you assume they are doing their best, in which case, hysterics don't help, or they are not, any hysterics won't help either.

Regardless, apocalypse is definitely hysteria in my books. You are of course free to disagree.
 
Then its simply a case of my not understanding what you meant and not a strawman. I must admit, i had missed that part of the comment. Thank you for clarifying your meaning. Regardless, we don't know what FD are doing in terms of countermeasures, all we can see is that its not as effective as we would like. It doesn't mean they are not trying to do something about it (nor does it mean they are). As i said earlier i think, either you assume they are doing their best, in which case, hysterics don't help, or they are not, any hysterics won't help either.

Regardless, apocalypse is definitely hysteria in my books. You are of course free to disagree.

That's the disagreement, if they aren't doing what they can to fix this and we don't say anything then they might think we don't mind much and simply ignore the issue. If they are doing what they can then they must be quite incompetent given the size of their company and the time passed.
 
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