Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

[Rat Catcher]

...
I would argue that PG/Solo players have significantly more unopposed reign over this game than anyone in Open, because being in Open comes with risk and being in a PG or in Solo does not. This is at the root of the issue we're discussing.
...

Oh dear... I play in open, I sometimes see other players, all of my BGS work is in open, sometimes I see another player.... this is really dangerous...
What is the risk in open, that you may run into another hostile player?

It is not at the root of what we are discussing... what is at the root of the discussion is than any player, in any mode, can influence BGS and the only limit to how much is measure by 'How many' and 'how much effort' - which is how a squadron of 11 (maybe less then) were able to manipulate a BGS war against an unknown number of players in PG & solo and succeed... that is it, in a nutshell... open carries whatever risk you wish, in 99.9999% of the galaxy is it 99.99999999% 'safe' (accidents happen)...

 

[Just Paul]

One Commander in One galaxy that gives a damn about him.

This should have been the last entry in this now almost 1200 replies long threat. That's all there is, nobody hears you scream in your nicely appointed, cozy warm and dimly lit escape pod until search & rescue picks you up.

 

[Rick6549]

At this rate we'll be at 2k before tuesday

 

[Rubbernuke]

Oh dear... I play in open, I sometimes see other players, all of my BGS work is in open, sometimes I see another player.... this is really dangerous...
What is the risk in open, that you may run into another hostile player?

It is not at the root of what we are discussing... what is at the root of the discussion is than any player, in any mode, can influence BGS and the only limit to how much is measure by 'How many' and 'how much effort' - which is how a squadron of 11 (maybe less then) were able to manipulate a BGS war against an unknown number of players in PG & solo and succeed... that is it, in a nutshell... open carries whatever risk you wish, in 99.9999% of the galaxy is it 99.99999999% 'safe' (accidents happen)...

The BGS is / used to be like a really Enders Game sort of chess game by post. That makes it sound awful but it was real submarine warfare stuff where you would have move / counter move. To me how I see the BGS is a 'bullet time' PvP match, where the abstraction allows for more thinking to happen. Its the diametric opposite of what I think Powerplay should be, which is as near real time as it could get.

I would say though, that the risk of Open in itself modifies how you build your ship and how you fly it. I'd never fly a T-9 in Open with Powerplay because being in a power thats universally hated means not a lot of people want to see you live.

 

[Stigbob]

Its not that simple though- coming in cold reading about certain features you could indeed not fully understand the implications of things.

I do pre-purchase research specifically because I'm really picky about the video games I play, so I put in a bit of effort rather than waste money. The information's all out there for anyone who wants to engage with it.

Not that it makes any difference at all in ED with a view to PVP. Take away modes, geography, timezones and platforms and I'll still be able to high wake out if I don't feel like hanging around.

Its an imaginary problem with no workable solution.

 

[nighthawk_black]

I would just like to add that Crime & Punishment is working as intended, and I hope at some point in these interesting 58 pages someone pointed out to the OP that the mechanics he/she is asking for already exist.

ZO

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What do you think players should expect from Elite when they buy it? Just interested. Who is this game marketed to?

You mean to tell me that subtle things such as BGS manipulation are clearly written on the tin? I didn't see that...

It was quite clear to me when I bought this game that it wouldn't allow other players to restrict me if I didn't opt for it. I won't be told by other players: you can't go to this system, because we decided it's our system and we're blockading it. I also don't like being told by some leader of some guilt what I should do. Happy to help out friends on my own accord.

That's the main reason I decided to get involved in this mmo. It gave me the freedom to not have to deal with napoleonic pillocks like the ones you find in Eve.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I do pre-purchase research specifically because I'm really picky about the video games I play, so I put in a bit of effort rather than waste money. The information's all out there for anyone who wants to engage with it.

Not that it makes any difference at all in ED with a view to PVP. Take away modes, geography, timezones and platforms and I'll still be able to high wake out if I don't feel like hanging around.

Its an imaginary problem with no workable solution.

Unsurprisingly I disagree. Unless you have played certain features you'd never know how the modes and tools like blocking affect each one.

I mean, how can you quantify a solid answer if everyone plays to different rules?

 

[Good Whiskey]

Oh dear... I play in open, I sometimes see other players, all of my BGS work is in open, sometimes I see another player.... this is really dangerous...
What is the risk in open, that you may run into another hostile player?

I would categorize this as "selective personal experience to prove a point". There's a thread going right now started by someone who was interdicted 5 times on the way to a station. If you're trying to do something in a system and another group is opposing you, in Open, there's a much greater risk they will actively try to stop you. By using Solo and PGs, you simply deny them the opportunity to do so.

There's no point in arguing this. It's objective fact. If you don't care, that's fine, but don't pretend this isn't a thing here in Elite.

open carries whatever risk you wish, in 99.9999% of the galaxy is it 99.99999999% 'safe' (accidents happen)...

It does not carry whatever risk you wish. It carries whatever risk is there.

That's the main reason I decided to get involved in this mmo. It gave me the freedom to not have to deal with napoleonic pillocks like the ones you find in Eve.

Oops. Someone didn't fair too well in the meat grinder.

That kind of generalization borders on crazy fanboi. EVE has had countless wonderful players, just like Elite, only in EVE they are forced to adapt to a single shard environment in which treachery, subterfuge and the constant looming threat of death compels them to create remarkably detailed little cultures.

 

[Rat Catcher]

The only dilemma here is the one created by your intentional refusal to understand a simple truth of Elite, which is that two groups who are playing this game with the same objective are going about it in two different ways; one of which takes advantage of the modes in order to avoid armed conflict, and one that seeks armed conflict and is denied. This is a fairly straight-forward affair unless you continue to attempt to bend it.

And the issue is?

Surely the 'heart of the matter' is that if one believes they have bought what is envisioned to be a PvP spaceship game and then discovers that others have bought a PvE spaceship game and have no desire to 'hang' with the PvP faction and feel it is unjustifiable as they cannot be blown up and they have a 'Huge' advantage...

Why not just shrug, admit that the game has players in who will go about their gameplay without the benefit of the company of others, and just look to the PvP players for entertainment and worry not what is going on around them? That way there is plenty of pew-pew with others who desire the content and the remainder of the playerbase can be safely ignored.

If you are truly bothered by BGS then your own efforts toward supporting whatever it is you wish to support would occupy as much time as you are prepared to give it, even then you may not 'win' as someone else may be working against you for twice as long as you are giving...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oops. Someone didn't fair too well in the meat grinder.

That kind of generalization borders on crazy fanboi. EVE has had countless wonderful players, just like Elite, only in EVE they are forced to adapt to a single shard environment in which treachery, subterfuge and the constant looming threat of death compels them to creating remarkably detailed little cultures.

"Like the ones you find in Eve" is not equal to "like all players in Eve"

Oops, someone didn't fair too well reading.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Oops. Someone didn't fair too well in the meat grinder.

That kind of generalization borders on crazy fanboi. EVE has had countless wonderful players, just like Elite, only in EVE they are forced to adapt to a single shard environment in which treachery, subterfuge and the constant looming threat of death compels them to create remarkably detailed little cultures.

The 9-year journey to explore each of EVE Online's 7,805 solar systems

Katia Sae never wanted to be famous, but you don't go on a galactic tour without making some friends and enemies along the way.

www.pcgamer.com

EVE has explorers too it seems. I bet they have a dead clone body or two in a freezer though

 

[Good Whiskey]

"Like the ones you find in Eve" is not equal to "like all players in Eve"

Oops, someone didn't fair too well reading.

You know exactly what your comment meant and where it came from. I think anyone else looking at it will come to the same conclusion I did. But you're obviously starting to get upset about this, so I'll let you guys carry on and wind this thing up or whatever you want to do with it.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I would categorize this as "selective personal experience to prove a point". There's a thread going right now started by someone who was interdicted 5 times on the way to a station. If you're trying to do something in a system and another group is opposing you, in Open, there's a much greater risk they will actively try to stop you. By using Solo and PGs, you simply deny them the opportunity to do so.

There's no point in arguing this. It's objective fact. If you don't care, that's fine, but don't pretend this isn't a thing here in Elite.

That kind of generalization borders on crazy fanboi. EVE has had countless wonderful players, just like Elite, only in EVE they are forced to adapt to a single shard environment in which treachery, subterfuge and the constant looming threat of death compels them to create remarkably detailed little cultures.

I wrote "I play in open" - what bit of that is open to interpretation, or objective? Doesn't that entirely negate your first paragraph, yet you still choose to comment such?

As for being interdicted 5 times on the way to Jameson Memorial (let's be upfront and honest about this) I'd honestly say this was intended risk - particularly as the player making the comment likes to create his own 'emergent content" in SD...

Objective or what?

You can do better - I've read many very good posts penned by yourself - it just sounds as if you recently discovered that ED has modes and that not everyone plays with everyone else and are being humiliated by the discovery... Modes are there, folk use them, does it really matter? Groups oppose us in solo/PG all of the time...it is part of the game.... so what?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You know exactly what your comment meant and where it came from. I think anyone else looking at it will come to the same conclusion I did. But you're obviously starting to get upset about this, so I'll let you guys carry on and wind this thing up or whatever you want to do with it.

I'm not upset at all. Now you're projecting. You started getting upset.

I indeed know exactly what my comment meant. So when you decided to missrepresent it I just corrected you.

You're welcome

 

[photomankc]

BGS manipulation is much more effective if conflict is avoided (apart from CZ's! Even then - not having other players on the side of the opposition ensures that the zone can be won in the most efficient manner) - and efficiency is the key word... PvP conflict reduces efficiency (ignore if it is more fun for now) as the time spent doing pew-pew is not normally productive

This is true, wish it were otherwise honestly but not sure how to make it so and stay fair ro those that didn't buy 'that other game'. A PvP war can rage on and on and absolutely nothing is changed in the BGS you're supposedly 'waring' over. All the activities involved in determining the outcome, PvP is detrimental to getting them done. A fun distraction, but not really doing anything for ya.

You should have been in Carcosa last year, 3 wars, all with no visible opposition as those who 'forced' the wars never - ever - appeared in open... They lost all 3 conclusively, but that is irrelevent...

Well, not all never appeared in open, I 'sploded several times over those few weeks, and escaped a charming fellow in his Chief and a couple others which sorta required me to be in open to happen, but yes, LR won those rather decisively even though the bulk of all opposition action was in PG. (Don't get me started... Ray Charles could have seen what was up with that last station... ugghhhhh.)


Anyway, I'd actually be willing to see some of the Power Play stuff tied to open (and that's surprising to even me) as long as there is a way for the new player to get in and contribute without that, even if the impact is dampened. The normal BGS should be for everyone in whatever mode they want to play since just about all the missions and trade opportunity turns those gears. Doesn't matter though, I like this game just fine too as it is. Players in open just have to accept it takes time to get better at it. During the conflict you mention... I wasn't really anything but a cat-toy to be batted around and killed. These days I can usually hold my own, and fight back a bit, but I don't fly the meta tanks so I'm still not competitive against serious killers.

Geez, that's a lot of rambling :/

 

[Stigbob]

I would just like to add that Crime & Punishment is working as intended, and I hope at some point in these interesting 58 pages someone pointed out to the OP that the mechanics he/she is asking for already exist.

ZO

First page of the thread :

FDEV already fixed this, join Mobius if you want no PVP and if an individual falls below your personal Wheatons law test just block them.

No need for any changes, just use the tools already at your disposal without asking for everyone else to bend to your preferences.

...……………...……...…..

Unsurprisingly I disagree. Unless you have played certain features you'd never know how the modes and tools like blocking affect each one.

I mean, how can you quantify a solid answer if everyone plays to different rules?

Not true. I read up on how the modes worked, watched the David Braben dislikes teenage griefers video, then the David Braben dislikes guilds video, then I read up on blocking. I did that while the flyable demo downloaded, then I tried it and bought in immediately and have been having a blast ever since. Like I said I'm really picky about video games, so I prefer reading a little to wasting money. The same approach saved me from star citizen as they are not clear about anything except prices and their demo sucks.

If I was really into compulsory PVP I'd have noped out before the download finished since it was really really obvious from everything I read that its just not how the games put together.

It really is just PEBCAK with a hugely unrealistic entitled demand to alter the entire MMO for a few selfish types tacked to the end, go away if you don't like it.

I can't pretend to be at all sympathetic .

 

[Rat Catcher]

Wow @photomankc - you were one of the unlucky few in those wars.... (I should have worded that in 1st person ) - and I forgot that you were 'on the other side' in at least one conflict...

The rest, total agreement

 

[Good Whiskey]

I'm not upset at all. Now you're projecting. You started getting upset.

I indeed know exactly what my comment meant. So when you decided to missrepresent it I just corrected you.

You're welcome

Ziggy, this is getting silly. If I say "Like those pillocks who play Elite", no one is going to think that I mean "Some of the people who play Elite, you know, the bad ones". You know what you said. It came from a defensive place. No one is projecting. I don't even have to read between the lines.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Ziggy, this is getting silly. If I say "Like those pillocks who play Elite", no one is going to think that I mean "Some of the people who play Elite, you know, the bad ones". You know what you said. It came from a defensive place. No one is projecting. I don't even have to read between the lines.

But I didn't say "like those pillocks who play Eve".

Now would be a good time to stop telling me what I meant or was implying, since you're wrong and need to alter what I said to make a point. And if you take me for the sort of person that thinks any game has one particular type of player, I might even think you're just insulting my intelligence.