Meh, don't say stupid stuff on the internet if you can't deal with the backlash
Why Aiming in FA OFF with a Stick is a huge disadvantage
- Thread starter TEBORI
- Start date
fixed had to be lees fixed, like the cqc one, but more less, a really little variation for permit players with hotas or pad to be a little be more competitive against other.
Exactly the same happen in cod warzone when you play though pad you have a very little little aim assist
Exactly the same happen in cod warzone when you play though pad you have a very little little aim assist
I won't fly with a mouse. I refuse to dumb down my input to gain a tactical advantage in the game. In other games I refuse to dumb down my graphics to eliminate haze and other things that are designed to provide realism and obstacles. It's one of the reasons I won't participate in PvP and why I think gankers who expect everyone else to succumb to their meta tactics are fighting an uphill battle. I will fly with HOTAS and use VR at times, and I'll fly FA Off when boosting into turns to whip around, and then I will go FA on to stabilize. I don't fault mouse users though. Still, some mouse users can do some things in combat that I simply cannot possibly do with the HOTAS and I've been playing for 5 years.
No doubt, but that's an argument against a point I haven't made. I believe some die hard PvPers intentionally forego HOTAS (maybe they have both) for the tactical advantage of the mouse, because they were trained by others on how to be more efficient in movement and such, so having the best hardware setup counts when you're at the point of diminishing returns on in-game tactics vs another like-skilled player.
@Bantha
what you experienced here is the typical mob mentality. a specific pvp circle is afraid to loose their unfair advantage and so they attack every counter opinion.
the funny thing is this was not about mouse at all
it was to improove the hotas experience
well i say was on purpose cause in view what this mob did the last 24 hours things have changed and we have powerful possibilities where this mob can not act all
this thread had the main task to get some informative input about the semi fa off flight model. we expected besides constructive input the typical brigading and bashing und undermining cause this is what this mob does always.
we already created a projectgroup with the task to analyce technically deeply the functionality and effects of relative mouse and the slider in view of software generated counter rotation thrust,
and also the additional option for rotation assist in fa off for stick gamepad and all other input devices.
if as result of this project the relative mouse mechanic is changed or nerfed all people who suffer can send their thank you to the people who attacked this thread in the last days.
to this people. look at the posts of sanderling and morbad this is constructive input and critics.
what you experienced here is the typical mob mentality. a specific pvp circle is afraid to loose their unfair advantage and so they attack every counter opinion.
the funny thing is this was not about mouse at all
it was to improove the hotas experience
well i say was on purpose cause in view what this mob did the last 24 hours things have changed and we have powerful possibilities where this mob can not act all
this thread had the main task to get some informative input about the semi fa off flight model. we expected besides constructive input the typical brigading and bashing und undermining cause this is what this mob does always.
we already created a projectgroup with the task to analyce technically deeply the functionality and effects of relative mouse and the slider in view of software generated counter rotation thrust,
and also the additional option for rotation assist in fa off for stick gamepad and all other input devices.
if as result of this project the relative mouse mechanic is changed or nerfed all people who suffer can send their thank you to the people who attacked this thread in the last days.
to this people. look at the posts of sanderling and morbad this is constructive input and critics.
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The beginning of this thread was an earnest attempt to explain where you have misunderstood the mechanics of relative mouse but you are too invested in certain people not being right to take any of it on board.
This thread IS about relative mouse and how you think it works and, given that, why HOTAS needs to be changed. This is your OP, you can't claim this isn't about relative mouse when that is what you are talking about.
I like your naive optimism here, best of luck.
This thread IS about relative mouse and how you think it works and, given that, why HOTAS needs to be changed. This is your OP, you can't claim this isn't about relative mouse when that is what you are talking about.
I like your naive optimism here, best of luck.
Deleted member 121570
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HOSAS here, but thanks!
On that point; I think the reverse is true. It's all about getting good enough, and you can do that with whatever controls you like. I do recognise this is my opinion tho - not a 'fact', as indeed are all statements of this sort.
I don't really see the argument now relates to Akuma's very original point which was about "should there be another assist option to help out folks who might like that?".
Even though I personally might not touch it, that doesn't mean someone else might not like it and I'm not gonna judge anyone here on their choices about how they play the game.
Aiming's just pointing your bloody nose at something and keeping it there. If someone finds that hard - they just need to practice more. If they want to use assists to help with that, then that's their business. Nothin' wrong with it. Just like there's nothin wrong if they like using a mouse for that, or a stick, or pedals for yaw, or whatever. Why even care?
Surely it's more important that people can play together, have a beer or something, enjoy the game and have fun?
Public mockery or jibing at people for either lack of skills, or even worse - lack of income, even in obscure jest, serves no purpose other than to paint oneself as a bit unpleasant and misguided at best.
It's never a good look.
Look good, fly good, drink beer, have fun. Win at ED
Deleted member 121570
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Possibly! I spend my entire life in ED getting punched in the face by mountains, cliffs, hills, stations, installations....
The pain's real!
As a non-PvPer, are there tournaments or meetups that have been recorded, and Win/Loss records taken of HOTAS players vs. M&KB? Legit curious. Because some people in here are saying "it's more accurate for YOU, but not for me".
But in my opinion if you always lose 9/10 matches with it, then one method is clearly superior and it stops being in the realm of subjectivity, and moves to objective mathematical fact about speed/accuracy of aim.
Again, I don't know if such record keeping exists or if there have been any player set up tournaments where this has been tested. But to me it's less about subjectivity and more about actual records and numbers.
But in my opinion if you always lose 9/10 matches with it, then one method is clearly superior and it stops being in the realm of subjectivity, and moves to objective mathematical fact about speed/accuracy of aim.
Again, I don't know if such record keeping exists or if there have been any player set up tournaments where this has been tested. But to me it's less about subjectivity and more about actual records and numbers.
Deleted member 192138
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But still no proof as to how or what relative mouse is doing to provide "software generated counter rotation thrust" despite four videos (all of which you ignore) demonstrating that this function does not exist?
Cos I'm still waiting for you to back up your claims.
So far you've told us how many years you play and how many hours and you have a background as a software engineer and all you've provided by way of actual proof is a three minute video of you wiggling at a star without any control input indicators.
So please provide proof.
Any proof.
Arguments that we should believe you based on your proclaimed experience and background are not relevant compared to proof.
So I am waiting for that proof which we first asked for four days ago and you refuse to give.
Please.
Give.
Proof.
Until then, have fun with your project group searching for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
Let's write an open letter to FDEV to have less monutains. Clearly it's a health and safety issue.
I play with a gamepad and in VR and fly 95% faoff in normal space now and I'm a scrub. Took me a couple of months of practicing to get the needed understanding and fine motor skills. I still bounce around once in a while, but it get's less and less everytime I fly. Would using kb/m be easier and faster to learn, probably, but that has to do with having the needed fine motor skills already from using kb/m for most other tasks somebody uses a computer for. Use a trackpad or trackball with RM and see how easy it is to fly faoff, in the end they are "mice".
The possibility of an FA mixed mode is the same as an open only bgs, even if Tebori's working group finds the non-excisting "counter rotational thrust".
A Specific PvP Circle: Hey, guys, that's not how relative mouse works. Let us explain it.
SPEAR and Company: YOU'RE BRIGADING. SOCIAL ENGINEERING. GET A JOB, YOU LOSERS.
Do you want Phisto killing CMDRs in Deciat? Because this is how you get Phisto killing CMDRs in Deciat.
There have been tournaments but there isn't those kind of statistics. I wouldn't dispute the claim that has been made that most PvPers use m&k, but I also know Cmdrs that use HOTAS that are excellent. One of the main things that made me put my HOTAS away was desk real estate.
There are two parts to this argument though.
1. How relative mouse works - There are some really odd claims about this in the OP and subsequent posts that are demonstrably wrong.
2. A request for adding some elements of FAon to FAoff for HOTAS.
Issue 1: we are at stalemate with. Reasoned explanation hasn't helped.
Issue 2: I don't see the need for it but I think that if it is optional and if giving some FAon advantage is matched with reducing some FAoff advantage it could work.
I also don't think FDev will have much interest in playing around with what is, in my opinion, the best flight model of any space game because a few people want it to be easier when they are using FAoff.
Deleted member 121570
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Let's hope not. I don't know much about PvP combat, but that would seriously mess up PvP racing imo
Deleted member 192138
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The most recent tournament held was the RoA Liga. It didn't represent all squadrons but the winning team - NATO, consisting of L'Intouchable, Qoryl Qrygg, Lesof and Toruide - is arguable the strongest wing in competitive/tournament style PvP in the game atm.
L'Intouchable - keyboard and mouse, uses relative mouse on one axis but not both. Up until the start of this year, L'In was flying without relative mouse at all.
Qoryl Qrygg - stick and keyboard.
Lesof - keyboard and mouse with relative mouse set to ~10% (so not full force relative mouse). Up until recently, Lesof was flying without relative mouse because he doesn't understand how to set up his bindings. So he flew for months without relative mouse thinking he had it on, and still got to the point of being one of the strongest PvPers in a matter of months.
Toruide - flies with a joystick, though I'm not certain whether he has a throttle or keyboard for his left hand.
I pointed this out in this post, linking to a fight they had against Prism (another squadron which can field one of the strongest wings in the PvP scene as well.) In that fight their opponents were:
Jazod and Yamato - I believe both keyboard and mouse with relative on both axes.
Walkingdead - gamepad.
Captin Pelley - HOTAS.
This is the video I linked to, it's from Lesof's perspective. At the time Lesof was flying without relative mouse:
I was told my evidence was invalid as a contribution by Fuego, for this reason:
Despite repeatedly asking for evidence about the figures regarding "90%" of the top 200/100 PvPers in the game being KB&M, I'm yet to be provided with a source of that statistic. It's worth noting that "most of them use K&M" is flat wrong - 50% of the people in the fight use KB&M: half, not most.
Another thing I've asked for proof on, repeatedly, and been flat ignored about.
Hold up. Are there even 100 proper competitive PvPers in the game?