It a video of hacker, how does this go against what I said in any way?
Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand
- Thread starter Danquememe
- Start date
Um, no. There are still hundreds of us and we still have organized fights all the time.
I don't get upset about pirates / "griefers". In fact I've had a few cool encounters with RP pirates long ago when the lave region was still pirate-infested. But to be honest I'm also not looking for PvP either, although I have nothing against those who do (except of course trolls like station suicide rammers and jameson crash site interdimensional ninjas).
I play open to be in a (bit more) populated space, to see ships that aren't just robots every now and then, for community goals / interstellar initiatives, for spontaneous encounters in cool places, exploration expeditions (although these now tend to be in Fleetcomm PG), etc.
So mainly coop, either organized or spontaneous, and just the off chance of seeing player ships.
I play open to be in a (bit more) populated space, to see ships that aren't just robots every now and then, for community goals / interstellar initiatives, for spontaneous encounters in cool places, exploration expeditions (although these now tend to be in Fleetcomm PG), etc.
So mainly coop, either organized or spontaneous, and just the off chance of seeing player ships.
More's the pity.........
I have to say, OP is the most respectful and grammatically capable ganker I have ever encountered. The majority of the gankers on PS4 are absolute lunatics who only communicate through Pepe frog emojis and profanity-filterable content on the system chat. Kudos to you for at least being able to communicate with your fellow CMDRs and being willing to actually devote some critical thinking and self reflection to your chosen style of play.
I've noticed in ganker communities there is a high level of echo-chambering and cognitive dissonance going on. I think all gankers, deep down, know that shooting harmless Asp Explorers, killing fuel rats and station ramming is a crappy way to play this game, but they enjoy it, so they seek to find every justification under the sun to defend it. Unfortunately, it's a fairly common human trait to take enjoyment out of the domination and humiliation of others, which is why it shows up in games with such an open concept like Elite.
Psychopathy aside, the main disconnect is people come at this game from differing perspectives and expectations. There are the "PvPers" who likely have grown up playing games like Halo and Call of Duty, where the sole objective is to kill other players. When they get ahold of a game like Elite, they simply play Elite the same way and can't understand why someone would be salty about being shot at. In their mind that's the whole point of the game.
On the flip side there are the non-PvP focused players, who come to this game because it's something different than most other games. There are literally hundreds of popular, highly developed games out there where the main objective is shooting other players. Elite is special because it offers so much more than your typical Halo/Call of Duty style of play. I think a lot of us view this game as an exploration and trading game first, with some background PvP elements thrown into the mix. Therefore, when you get nuked by a random player for no understandable in-game reason, it makes Elite feel less like Elite and more like Call of Duty. And that's a bummer.
The worst PvP/ganker argument, however, is that open is "PvP only" mode and that the non-PvPers should stay in solo. Sorry PvPers, but you don't "own" open. There are many legitimate reasons for players to want to encounter other CMDRs in game that aren't combat. There is only one "PvP mode" and that mode is CQC.
The biggest problem in the game, and the best possible solution to this mess, is a better crime and punishment system. Want to "gank a bunch of noobs for the lolz"? Go for it. But expect some consequences. Right now there are no consequences, and that is the problem with Elite.
Also, hello Ozzy.
I've noticed in ganker communities there is a high level of echo-chambering and cognitive dissonance going on. I think all gankers, deep down, know that shooting harmless Asp Explorers, killing fuel rats and station ramming is a crappy way to play this game, but they enjoy it, so they seek to find every justification under the sun to defend it. Unfortunately, it's a fairly common human trait to take enjoyment out of the domination and humiliation of others, which is why it shows up in games with such an open concept like Elite.
Psychopathy aside, the main disconnect is people come at this game from differing perspectives and expectations. There are the "PvPers" who likely have grown up playing games like Halo and Call of Duty, where the sole objective is to kill other players. When they get ahold of a game like Elite, they simply play Elite the same way and can't understand why someone would be salty about being shot at. In their mind that's the whole point of the game.
On the flip side there are the non-PvP focused players, who come to this game because it's something different than most other games. There are literally hundreds of popular, highly developed games out there where the main objective is shooting other players. Elite is special because it offers so much more than your typical Halo/Call of Duty style of play. I think a lot of us view this game as an exploration and trading game first, with some background PvP elements thrown into the mix. Therefore, when you get nuked by a random player for no understandable in-game reason, it makes Elite feel less like Elite and more like Call of Duty. And that's a bummer.
The worst PvP/ganker argument, however, is that open is "PvP only" mode and that the non-PvPers should stay in solo. Sorry PvPers, but you don't "own" open. There are many legitimate reasons for players to want to encounter other CMDRs in game that aren't combat. There is only one "PvP mode" and that mode is CQC.
The biggest problem in the game, and the best possible solution to this mess, is a better crime and punishment system. Want to "gank a bunch of noobs for the lolz"? Go for it. But expect some consequences. Right now there are no consequences, and that is the problem with Elite.
Also, hello Ozzy.
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Ganker is a word thrown around in elite as well as griefer. As far as I know a gank is when it's multiple commanders versus one. Griefing in elite is hardly even possible, only instance I'd say is if one intentionally goes into pve pg with intent to ... well grief. Which I never understood in the first place, why is someone angry at someone else for wanting to play alone or in a certain group. But other than that, open is open, there's no griefing, and ganking is a valid strategy.
I won't go into reasons or "morale" because they're irrelevant, everyone plays the game as they please, as long as no game rules are broken it should be fine. Elite allows you to customize a lot of your game play, far more than some other games.
Apart from pvp, meeting people is cool. Way back when, I went to fuelum and was greeted by couple fuelrats that showed me their home system. I've even been fueldicted which was surprising and cool at its own. Met a random commander at davs hope, the most ridiculous conversation I've had in game happened with that commander.
Another time challenged another commander to an srv race around davs (I lost).
I've seen stations being attacked by thargoid interceptors (I miss you truffle), absolutely hilarious moment. Just coming back with 30% hull from fighting an interceptor to be met by another interceptor in front of the base, that managed to snipe my power plant through the mail slot which left me hanging above the landing pad for a good minute.
Boosting by accident at the back wall of the station for everyone to see just to pretend like nothing happened and limp back to my landing pad is always, well, embarrassing.
Numerous times (before new player systems) I'd met a new commander in a high rez trying to earn a starting buck, winging them and helping them out wasn't unusual.
There's more examples and each is unique at its own right.
It all depends where you are and what you're doing, frequenting common places where pvp isn't as common as say shinrarta or deciat, can have memorable moments with random commanders that don't have to involve pvp and still be quite enjoyable.
Although pvp in elite can be quite thrilling and has an extremely high skill ceiling, it just isn't as rewarding as a fully fleshed out pvp game. For starters it's p2p, meta is absolutely horrible atm (there were worse ones too), pvp balance is as good as payout balance, there's no ladder or tiers, there's no matchmaker (it hardly fits the game anyway).
The game does have pvp and has pvp oriented aspects, but it's not the main focus of the game, even though it's the only replayable aspect of it, especially now in this state.
Other aspects can be replayable, but either for niche players or if you set your own limitations in order to make it different than it was last time.
I can't tell if powerplay is or isn't since I've never seriously participated in it, but I'm guessing most play powerplay due to the group they're in and not the powerplay itself (as far as I understand from talking to others when I considered power play myself).
So in short, yes open can have memorable moments that don't involve pvp and no you're not suppose to complain if you get destroyed.
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what?
It's a video of an Iconic ganker that, by his own words, was after an easy fight. It goes really well against what you said in the post i quoted.
And found an experienced player on an alt account and the ganker got beaten at his own game - so he started to yell "hacker"
But NO hacking whatsoever was involved...
Also, against what you said too...
Want me to link you some ROA movies? They are absolutely great players, even greater gankers and if you watch even a single ROA video you'll see they are after easy kills and they are really enjoying it (no pun intended - the guys are really having fun popping nooblets in paper planes, in Deciat lately)
This isn't a hacker, it's an experienced player's smurf account - still engineered to hell with the exception of the things you need specifically combat rank to unlock, but it looked like yet another newbie in a mostly harmless conda, and the dude accused him of hacking when his shields didn't crumple instantly and he had phasing on pulse lasers.
Turns out that your usual frag mamba boom and zoom in deciat is less effective when your opponent knows to put four pips into sys and has a bunch of boosters.
What's this ' you guys ' . As for legitimate pvp or whatever ;I was specifically responding to your statement on ganking , I even quoted it
" doesnt matter what the ganking circumstances are. The "gankers just like easy targets" is just getting old and its nothing more than a delusional heap of trash that people that get ganked make up. Its so untrue and Im sick of hearing it. "- Sir Ganksalot
So I didn't try to tar pvp all with the same brush as your contextless statement suggests ; I had a dig at plain gankers . Don't put words in me mouth.
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My personal opinion is that you must have encountered first hand the pure brutal ownage a PvP murderboat can inflict.
Many pilots, me included, played NPC farming simulator in PvE and were theorycrafting "good builds", thinking themselves superior in their experience in PvE. And then a murderhobo blows you out of the water using techniques you never heard of, delivering damage even a spec ops wing is hard pressed to do, and finally you realize, wow, there is even more...
People who never get ganked often fail to realize the disparity between a merely good PvE build and an optimized murderboat.
And for not a few of them this is incentive enough to learn more about it...
But remember our PvP bounty hunting session in Borann. Wasn't that glorious emergent content?
PvP in the right circumstances can be the most fun experience the game has to offer.
Ha no. A lot of the old guard has left, but there is a ever returning influx of good new players.
Some time ago in Colonia a wing mate and got awefully pounded in a 2v2 against some (for me at least) "no-names"
I never read about. We repaired, rearmed, went back out, got rekt again and that was an amazing 2 hours of gameplay between equals
(or sadly, not-so-equals
)We have the PvP hub in San Tu
We have Ganksalots gank survival discord
We set up our own PvP hub in Colonia
1v1 is not as interesting as wing fights, granted, but it's still there
First off, thanks for the reply, and especially the compliments! I've only quoted a couple of the things in your post, but I think you did a good job of outlining the tension we've been exploring in this thread.
As mentioned elsewhere, I came to Elite for PVP, being drawn to its promise of engaging 6dof space dogfighting. I have a lot of hours in combat flight sims like IL-2 and similar. I had actually been tangentially aware of Elite for some time, but to be honest, its marketing and title made me think it was some kind of arcade shooter, not an actual sim. So I ignored it for years! Ironic.
My very favorite type of combat flight sim setting is WWI dogfighting (I've been playing Rise of Flight since 2011 or so. and more recently, Flying Circus). The planes are very simple, but the furballs are extremely intense, forcing you to pay close attention to the minute differences in capability between your aircraft and your opponent's, punishing you for all piloting errors you make and demanding precise aim. Getting good takes quite a lot of time and dedication, during which you will be shot down repeatedly, often by the same pilots. But it's not griefing, it's just "learning to play."
When I learned that participation in PVP in Elite is front-loaded by the engineering and credit grind, I was a bit shocked. But, thanks to the interest I'd expressed and my extremely casual attitude to getting blown up, the PVP and ganking community took me into its arms and has been extremely helpful in getting me up to speed.
Speed is the wrong word, however, for describing what it's like trying to get into PVP in Elite. Especially so if that's the only thing you're coming to the game for. I'm now at just under 350hrs of in-game time - after only 6 weeks of IRL time - and I've only just barely gotten a "meta FDL" build nearly complete (haven't been to Colonia yet, so it won't be "done" for some time). I assure you that I've been getting well and properly griefed by this grind - I don't recommend anyone try to do what I have done - but I'm persevering because I have this dream of learning to pilot these 6dof spaceships in a dogfight set in an asteroid field.
Now, I came to this game with a cavalier attitude towards shooting at other players, as well as being shot at myself. I'm very much in the vein of the "Halo/COD" player mindset you described - the embodiment of "it's nothing personal, kid," if we're going to make a meme reference. My own experience of getting ganked just reinforced my impression that this was the way Elite worked - heck, the marketing made it clear to me that Open play was the "anything goes" mode.
But this thread points up the challenges in that, because many players are fans of the original games, and are looking for a more cooperative experience, etc. So there's an inherent conflict there.
Having separate PVE and PVP servers would be one solution - that's what the naval MMO I played did - but that would split the playerbase, and regardless, that isn't the direction FDev decided to go. Instead, they've done this weird hybrid, a nearly consequence-free "do as you wish" mode, and this conflict lies at the heart of it. It has seemingly incited these hurt feelings on all sides since the beginning.
Again, I sometimes suspect that FDev are the real griefers here. But that may just be my PTSD from the engineering grind talking!
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Speaking of, I've met Bigmaec in game (and winged) in a PVE event when we were fighting for fuelrats.
Fuelum war? That was glorious.
Before all the dons arrive I'll save em the post.
This game isn't designed around PvP it's designed around trade and exploration. Sure PvP is in it but it's as previously posted, hamstrung by 3 logon modes.
That's Intentional as it offers sanctuary to those who don't want to partake.
Some might argue the combat mechanic is soley for PvE.?
It's so weighted against npcs though l doubt that.
We as pvpers have to accept were merely a small vocal community profoundly outnunbered by those who choose not to get involved.
Regardless of how they feel about it they've made that choice.
As an advocate of one world galaxy open l dislike it as much as the PvP community do.
That's the way Fdev want it.
This game isn't designed around PvP it's designed around trade and exploration. Sure PvP is in it but it's as previously posted, hamstrung by 3 logon modes.
That's Intentional as it offers sanctuary to those who don't want to partake.
Some might argue the combat mechanic is soley for PvE.?
It's so weighted against npcs though l doubt that.
We as pvpers have to accept were merely a small vocal community profoundly outnunbered by those who choose not to get involved.
Regardless of how they feel about it they've made that choice.
As an advocate of one world galaxy open l dislike it as much as the PvP community do.
That's the way Fdev want it.
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I have to say, this is the most well put explanation I've seen yet, but I have a problem with this part here.
I have yet to see a single ganker say open is PvP only, that's absolutely ridiculous.
What we have said is something along the lines of, "if you don't want to get shot at, don't play in open, or avoid player hot spots".
I will shoot at anyone I feel like, regardless of who they are or what ship they're flying and nothing will ever stop me. I enjoy playing this game as a galactic villain or outlaw. We're not saying that you HAVE to PvP if you're in open but there is a possibility they will shoot at you. If you don't like it, switch to a different mode.
However, I do actively encourage people to stay in open, even if they don't PvP, by teaching them how to escape a gank, but I don't expect them to learn how to PvP unless they want to. I'm always willing to teach but I am well aware that it's not everyones cup of tea.
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Deleted member 182079
D
I do indeed, it was a very memorable and fun session. Unfortunately it requires a honey pot to attract players. And honestly, when we winged up it did feel like a purposeful activity (protecting greedy little miners
)I agree with this; FDev have given us this weird "do as you wish" mode, and it's on each player to approach it with that in mind, regardless of what they might wish FDev had done differently. It is what it is, and we have to try to make the most of it.
I have never played an outlaw or villain character in a MP game before (other than shooter / combat focused games where everyone is a soldier or whatever), and I'm enjoying it, too. Especially when I get to tangle with lawfuls. There are some really fun RP things I'm hoping will develop as I play further, and I'm looking forward to that.
At the same time, when I do have an "emergent gameplay experience" with someone, I do try to send a friend request afterwards. Not mainly for the cynical reasons of instancing and whatnot, but because, like you, I am happy to share whatever it is I've learned with another player. Even (and especially) one I've just blown up.
In my perfect world, Open would be rough and tumble, and we'd be blowing each other up all the time, but we'd not be getting mad about it. We'd just be playing and having wild adventures together.
I know that's naive, but it's my dream, and one I'll try to facilitate, even as I roleplay an evil psychopath villain.
Well I play mostly in open, what irritates me big way is how current pvp system breaks lets say believability in game's universe. In solo it works well enough. If I do not want trouble I check security ratings on systems on my route, and steer clear of low secs/anarchies/war zones. If I am really carebear I try to route through high sec systems. Now in open every place is in effect anarchy. There can be either roving gang of terrorists attacking anyone suitable target in any system, or loner psycho doing little murderspree. With minimal consequences. I would want to see robust mechanisms severely affecting gameplay of those types outside anarchies/low sec systems. With steeply growing risks, and no easy way of getting rid of those consequences. As there is no such thing, well blocklist is your friend.
Excellent points...and i agree 100% -- for example, a pvp victim should be allowed to place a bounty on a player who attack and kills them for no reason, and this is claimable by anyone -- also pvp death penalties should be NERFED. just some of my ideas in regards to what you said.